REDLINE Shelf Life?

[DeltaVee]

Hi All,

I picked up a pack of F63 Redlines for my 24/60 casing about 8 months ago... so I decided to use one of them at our club launch coming up... I took the package out of my *sealed* case and opened it up... and what I saw was kind of surprising. I've seen white lightning get a white bloom on them... but NOTHING like what I saw here. I was appalled... Look CLOSELY at the propellant grain on the right next to the liner tube... especially at the core. I expect this will be hard to light up... but even if not, the core that's all nice and fuzzy on the end visible... on the other end looks like someone took a countersink to it!!! The last pack of these I had sure didn't look like these... and this package hasn't even been lying around all that long....


Is this a *thing* with the Redline motors? If it is, I've never seen it until now!






I am VERY DISSAPPOINTED!!!!
- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

The package...


One end of the "nastier one"


The OTHER end of the nasty one...

 

[rcktnut]

I have some G71's here and the grains that are not individually sealed have some oxidation, but it is rust colored. Sealed grains look good. Just saying that is what these look like here. To me those grains you have do not look like RL's. I also flew a G71 this past weekend with a new delay (HDK) I just purchased and the delay was spot on. With old Redines they say the delay goes bad and burns faster then what it should. Pic. of G71 RL grain

 

[DeltaVee]

I have some G71's here and the grains that are not individually sealed have some oxidation, but it is rust colored. Sealed grains look good. Just saying that is what these look like here. To me those grains you have do not look like RL's. I also flew a G71 this past weekend with a new delay (HDK) I just purchased and the delay was spot on. With old Redines they say the delay goes bad and burns faster then what it should. Pic. of G71 RL grainView attachment 430657

Interesting...

Well the packaging *says* it's redline propellant... even the one inside in the inner plastic bag is deteriorating... I'm sure I didn't mix anything up as I just opened the package today! I've just never seen *this* level of deterioration before... although a 20+ year old white lightning E18 didn't look so good...

And now that you mention it, they don't look like redlines... but they don't look like white lightning either. I have F35Ws and they are starting to whiten over... but they're not fuzzy either. If I didn't know better I'd swear the F63's were moldy!

 

[n3tjm]

Looks like Redline Propellant to me.

 

[PatD]

Looks like Redline Propellant to me.

YO! Papa Elf. How are you doing?

 

[n3tjm]

YO! Papa Elf. How are you doing?

Doing great! Thanks for asking

I didn't know the F63 was a bates grain.

 

[DeltaVee]

Doing great! Thanks for asking

I didn't know the F63 was a bates grain.

Yes... The 24/60 F35, F63, F51 (the ones I've used so far) all are...

 

[rcktnut]

I would say that it is RL also, RL is lighter in color than WL when "fresh". Might just be crumbs on the grains from processing. I would say rather than having deteriorated grains you have nice fresh ones. Mine on the other hand has some oxidation. There is only one way to really find out and that is to use it!

 

[n3tjm]

Yes... The 24/60 F35, F63, F51 (the ones I've used so far) all are...

Unless they changed it, the F35 is a C-slot. I have flown a couple of them.

 

[DeltaVee]

Unless they changed it, the F35 is a C-slot. I have flown a couple of them.

Oops you're right... The best part being I JUST assembled one right after the F63... So no excuse!

 

[DeltaVee]

I would say that it is RL also, RL is lighter in color than WL when "fresh". Might just be crumbs on the grains from processing. I would say rather than having deteriorated grains you have nice fresh ones. Mine on the other hand has some oxidation. There is only one way to really find out and that is to use it!

Which I hope to do tomorrow. Frankly the prior reload I had was far cleaner, and the core of the grain was sharp and clean....

 

[jrap330]

Hi All,

I picked up a pack of F63 Redlines for my 24/60 casing about 8 months ago... so I decided to use one of them at our club launch coming up... I took the package out of my *sealed* case and opened it up... and what I saw was kind of surprising. I've seen white lightning get a white bloom on them... but NOTHING like what I saw here. I was appalled... Look CLOSELY at the propellant grain on the right next to the liner tube... especially at the core. I expect this will be hard to light up... but even if not, the core that's all nice and fuzzy on the end visible... on the other end looks like someone took a countersink to it!!! The last pack of these I had sure didn't look like these... and this package hasn't even been lying around all that long....


Is this a *thing* with the Redline motors? If it is, I've never seen it until now!






I am VERY DISSAPPOINTED!!!!
- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

The package...
View attachment 430641

One end of the "nastier one"
View attachment 430643

The OTHER end of the nasty one...
View attachment 430644

Post your concern again under the Aero-Tech guys discussion thread and see what he says.

 

[DeltaVee]

Well the post mortem is in.... the factory igniter failed to light the motor. No surprise... saw the puff of smoke then nuthin! However my home-made igniter made with the last of my thermalite stock set it off in a hurry. The thing will burn if you give it enough oomph.

 

[jrap330]

Well the post mortem is in.... the factory igniter failed to light the motor. No surprise... saw the puff of smoke then nuthin! However my home-made igniter made with the last of my thermalite stock set it off in a hurry. The thing will burn if you give it enough oomph.

Great...

 

[Steve Shannon]

All commercial motors are required to have a shelf life of at least 10 years or place a "use by" date on the packaging. I've never seen anything with a "use by" date.

 

[DeltaVee]

All commercial motors are required to have a shelf life of at least 10 years or place a "use by" date on the packaging. I've never seen anything with a "use by" date.

I don't think I did anything to cause the issue... F63's haven't been around long enough to go bad on their own.

Any storage suggestions? I keep this stuff in a closed "Rigid" case...

 

[n3tjm]

Redline uses strontium nitrate. Like Barium Niatrate, it loves to absorb humidity from the air, but much much worse. Back when I did mix propellant, I would have the Strontium Nitrate in the vacuum oven until the moment it is added to the batch. Problem is the clear bags Aerotech uses does not keep moisture out, so the propellant will adsorb ambient moisture and "Fuzz up" like that. Best thing to do is get yourself an airtight Ammo Can and put desiccant packs in it, and on top of the loads. I would also store the delay elements in a different container. By experience, I have found the catalyst they use likes to contaminate the delay element, causing them to burn faster.

 

[crossfire]

Ask AT what they think.

 

[DeltaVee]

Redline uses strontium nitrate. Like Barium Niatrate, it loves to absorb humidity from the air, but much much worse. Back when I did mix propellant, I would have the Strontium Nitrate in the vacuum oven until the moment it is added to the batch. Problem is the clear bags Aerotech uses does not keep moisture out, so the propellant will adsorb ambient moisture and "Fuzz up" like that. Best thing to do is get yourself an airtight Ammo Can and put desiccant packs in it, and on top of the loads. I would also store the delay elements in a different. By experience, I have found the catalyst they use likes to contaminate the delay element, causing them to burn faster.

Good info... thanks!
I don't think this one had a problem with faster delay burn... I drilled my delay for a 6 second delay (depth guage gave me a reading of .125") but my JL altimeter data tells me I had an 8 second delay But I'll be going to get some dessicant soon. The bag plastic is pretty thick... I would've thought it'd be pretty resitent. Live and learn.