RC transmitter choice for RCBG

[jsargevt]

For those of you who fly RCBG I'd like to hear your opinion on what transmitter you all use and/or recommend. It is a jungle out there! I have no idea if there is anything specific to RCBG that would make a radio a better option or not. I know that if you're doing something like sailplanes having the ability to program in different settings is exceedingly helpful. My logic tells me that it probably isn't a bad idea to use the same philosophy for RCBG as well.

I have a Tactic 404 that came with my RTF glider but it is extremely "simple". I can't tell if RCBG only needs a simple radio or if having one which can do mixing, dual rates, etc, etc is worth the investment. The engineer in me says "HELL YEAH" while the wallet says "please not another hobby".

I don't mind spending the money out front if it is worth it. I am slightly irritated that I have a transmitter which seems to be very limited in use so I'd rather make sure that I take into consideration a transmitter which would crossover into RCBG as well.

Thanks all! Sorry to crud up the rocket forum with RC questions but I trust the opinions here more than anywhere else. On the RC forums I lurk on all i hear is "Spektrum rocks", "Spektrum Sucks", "F the others get a FrSky, oh wait, you can't because they are not in stock." etc, etc, etc. I feel like everyone pushes what they have to help legitimize their own investments. Anyhow, thanks!!

 

[fulldec]

You will probably get a variety of answers where you post. The most frequent non-brand specific advice I've seen is buy the best radio you can afford. I did not find that helpful.

When I decided to take the plunge, I had to learn to fly RC as well as learn the RCRG stuff. I asked at the local rocket club and was directed to a Spektrum DX6i. My plan was to learn basic RC on a HobbyZone Champ and then learn to soar with a Radian - both Spektrum compatible. I think that plan was a good one for me.

i think all the major brands are pretty good. I have bad karma when trying to tweak systems so I steered away from the FrSky stuff, but it may be just fine.

I still fly mostly rudder/elevator but the features I think you want with a radio that will last you a while are:

• 6 Channels - lets you grow to rudder/elevator/aileron with throttle
• Dual rates and expo
• Mixes or at least a flap mix to enable some sort of boost mode/glide mode settings
• 2.4 Ghz to avoid frequency interference - maybe thats all that is for sale these days

The one feature I really miss is flight modes. Flight modes allow you to switch all your settings with the flip of a switch. It is a very useful feature for boost phase and then glide phase. The problem with using a flap switch to do that is that if you adjust the trim setting for the boost, it also changes the trim setting when you are gliding. You are also pretty much limited to switching just the elevator setting. True Flight Modes allow independent settings (including independent trim settings) for rudder, elevator,etc.

Unfortunately, you only get flight modes on higher end models than the DX6i. I began lusting after a DX8, which has flight modes and even a dedicated Sailplane model type when Spektrum announced the DX9! The DX9 has verbal callouts for all kinds of things, including timer functions. This can be real handy if you get interesting in competition flying like the S8E event. The announcement also resulted in a lot of perfectly good used DX8 TXs going up for sale as folks upgraded.

So there you have it, you have another hobby. I still have just my DX6i, and it is probably good enough, but one day I will talk myself into an upgrade. The only mystery is how high I will go.

Don

 

[mikec]

For those of you who fly RCBG I'd like to hear your opinion on what transmitter you all use and/or recommend.

I use a Spektrum DX7 but I can sympathize with anyone who says Spektrum sucks. I've had no issue with functionality but the setup is non-intuitive.

At a minimum I think you need dual rates, as RCRGs are extremely sensitive on boost but you usually need full rates on glide (this depends on what kind of RGRG you have to some degree, I've only flown deltas at this point.) Mixes can be helpful and you need delta mixing if you have a delta.

One thing I am just starting to test is flight stabilization on the receiver side (e.g. Eagletree Guardian, Hobbyking RX3S). If you want to fly hands-off on boost that may be an option instead of dual rates, but it's probably better to have both.

The cheapest solution I know of is the Spektrum DX5, but it's very bare-bones (non-adjustable dual rates but that's about it.)

 

[jsargevt]

Don and Mike,

Thanks for the replies. I think that I'm going to stay away from the FrSky stuff - it looks cool that it is open source but that just adds to the learning curve. The offset in cost savings will be made up by having to learn how to program what looks to be a somewhat non-intuitive interface. I have heard that the updates to the Spektrum software makes it easier to setup, but I am not really convinced of that yet. Right now, in general, RC is simply information overload.

I am interested to hear how flight stabilization works out for you Mike. I find it fascinating that this is even possible much less for a relatively affordable price, much like the GPS tracking we use for rocketry.

Good to know that things like dual rates is handy - this is stuff that i just don't know (yet). I appreciate the input thus far.

 

[TheAviator]

I worked in a hobby shop for 4 years, so I have a little more intimate understanding of the "Brand X Sucks/rocks" arguments.

Most of the Spektrum sucks arguments come from "OMG, it stopped receiving and crashed my plane." I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say this comes from a lack of understanding of the system. Many people assumed that you could treat a Spektrum 2.4 system just like the 72mHz systems they'd flown for decades. This is patently false. My main point is that you must understand the system you choose and its features and limitations. As Norm Abrams says at the start of his show:

"Before we use any power tools, let's talk about shop safety. Be sure to read, understand, and follow all of the procedures that come with your power tools. Knowing how to use your power tools properly greatly reduces the risk of personal injury..."

Replace "power tool" with radio system and you're on the right track. Please, please, please read the guidelines for using whatever system you choose.

Now, let me answer your question a little more directly.

I love my Spektrum systems and have owned a DX6i and DX7, and currently own a DX8. I love my DX8, but it is a tad pricey. I was going to recommend a DX7s because I thought it had the same interface as a DX8. I looked it up, and while it looks identical, several features are missing, including flight modes. So DX8 is as cheap as it gets if flight modes are a must.

For something on the cheaper side, try the JR XG6. ($139 WITH Receiver!) WARNING: This is NOT a DSM2/DSMX radio, and is therefore not compatible with the Spektrum systems. Ryan Woebkenberg has been flying one on his DLG and RCRG models and likes it very much. The disadvantage is that the extra receivers are more expensive than an AR6260, but not by much. ($99 vs $79 each.)

I am not personally familiar with Futaba, Airtronics, or Hitec 2.4 systems (have owned or used several 72MHz systems), so I do not feel qualified to make a recommendation there.

My final suggestion is to see if you can get your hands on one before you buy. One of the things that no-one ever thinks about is how the transmitter feels in the hand. I have rather large hands, so my DX8 works just fine. It is a rather bulky beast though, so someone with smaller hands might have trouble if you fly "thumbs" and not "pinch."

Now after all of that, let me say that Spektrum, JR, Futaba, Airtronics, and Hitec all make excellent products. (I'm sure FRSky and others do too, but I can't attest to them personally.) Whatever you choose, you can feel confident that any radio from these companies will fly your airplane better than you can.

 

[kjohnson]

You can get by with just some dual rates and expo. It makes things easier to have dedicated boost and glide modes though. If you are just dabbling and plan on only having one RC model at a time, then something something low end and cheap might be the way to go. If you plan in sticking with RC as a hobby or have more than one model at a time that you fly, go with something like a DX6i at a minimum for the model memory.

I'm still flying my venerable JR 9303x that I bought with a 72mhz synthesized module. I chose that particular model a few years ago because it had all the flight mode and mixing capabilities I thought I'd need, plus at the time there were a lot of them out there so lots of people knew and understood the programming. The modular design has also kept it up to date as different technology has come into play. I'm currently flying it with a Spektrum module but have a FRSky module and the Tactic AnyLink module.

I've been flying almost everything from indoor electrics, to DLG's, to quadcopters to world space modeling championship quality RCRG and a lot of other stuff. This radio has handled them all.

kj

 

[JoeG]

6 Channels - lets you grow to rudder/elevator/aileron with throttle
Dual rates and expo
Mixes or at least a flap mix to enable some sort of boost mode/glide mode settings
2.4 Ghz to avoid frequency interference - maybe thats all that is for sale these days

The above are excellent suggestions. Tactic has come out with their X650 Tx for around $150. I have been using a factory supplied model of this and it seems very solid, user friendly, pretty comfortable and full range receivers are less than $20. I have this radio in a 1/4 scale Piper Cub and a few electric planes of various sizes. No problems so far. Programming is everything you would expect from a much more expensive radio. I work in a hobby shop and would not hesitate to recommend this radio. I do not sell or recommend anything I wouldn't use myself.

I fly my Phoenix gliders, both large and small, with either a Futaba 9CAP or Spektrum DX8. Radio programming is very helpful, as everyone else has already stated, for setting up the glider but it is certainly possible to fly it with a simple DX5 or the Tactic 404. You will need some trim changes between boost and glide.

Look around in your area and see what radios are popular. Deal with a local hobby shop if possible as they can offer help with any problems you may have nd I have found that if there is a problem I can send in most name brand radios and the respective service department will repair them for free. Often, even those out of warranty.

I would stay away from 27 and 72 MHZ. Just too much stuff out there. We have trouble at our flying field at times with these and often rocket launch personnel are just not familiar with or prepared to take care of frequency control.

 

[fulldec]

One other thing to consider may the the RXs you want to use. I fly some RCRGs that are in the A/B/C engine range and I sometimes I use a small RX and servo all-in-one package, often refered to as a brick, the Vapor brick, in my case. This brick is used in many small park flyer electric planes and works well for these RCRGs and can be had for as little as $30. The brick I get uses the Spektrum system. I think some other systems may offer similar bricks, but I an not sure that all do. So, one more thing to think about while shopping for a TX.

Don

 

[jsargevt]

Don and Joe - awesome information! I really appreciate all the input everyone has provided. I didn't know that there were receivers and servos combined into a unit - that is handy to know! Every day I learn more about this hobby.

I think that I'm going to go with a Spetkrum radio since it seems fairly common and my instructor has one. To be honest that is a big help since he can help me with the programming should I need help. There are some deals to be had on DX7s and DX8 due to the DX9's arrival. I am leaning to the DX8 but maybe I'll ask Santa to put a DX9 under the tree.

 

[JoeG]

Don and Joe - awesome information! I really appreciate all the input everyone has provided. I didn't know that there were receivers and servos combined into a unit - that is handy to know! Every day I learn more about this hobby.

I think that I'm going to go with a Spetkrum radio since it seems fairly common and my instructor has one. To be honest that is a big help since he can help me with the programming should I need help. There are some deals to be had on DX7s and DX8 due to the DX9's arrival. I am leaning to the DX8 but maybe I'll ask Santa to put a DX9 under the tree.

I'm thinking about getting the DX9 so I can have someone to talk to while I'm flying.

 

[fulldec]

Yeah, the DX9 looks really nice. I'd say go for it and welcome to RC.

 

[jsargevt]

Yeah, the DX9 looks really nice. I'd say go for it and welcome to RC.

Honestly, I might go that route. I'll do some research over the weekend. I am wary of buying electronics like this from people I don't know online having had some less-than-optimal results with other electronic equipment unrelated to this hobby. My luck seems to be getting the ones which are basket cases......

 

[fulldec]

The DX9 was just recently released. Looks like those that preordered have gotten theirs, as did the hobby shops. Reports are some hobby shops have sold out their initial supply. You may have to look around a bit, but I don't think they are scarce. There is a long thread on RC groups that has more info than you could ever want to know. They are very knowledgeable and helpful for the experienced and newbies alike, although they are airplane/sailplane/helicopter centric.

 

[cvause]

The DX8 just went on clearance for $299 at Horizon's website. The DX9 is backordered for $399.

I have been flying helicopters, pattern airplanes, 3D profiles, and RCBG (Astro and Strato blasters) with a DX7 for the past four years. I used to fly a Futaba 9ZAP and I'm happy with my DX7. The only problem I have is the limited model memory, which is solved by the SD card in the DX8/9.

You can buy a used DX7 for under $200 on Ebay, and that's a great radio at a great price. I also fly the Orange RX from HobbyKing in all of my park flyers and RCBG models.

 

[caveeagle]

Wow, $299 for a DX9 is a great deal. I would jump on that if I needed a radio right now. I got back into RC flying about 3 years ago. (Flew old AM/FM gear back in the 80s).

My first radio was the Spektum Dx5 (DSM2) which turned out to be a colossal failure! Son and I build up a nice Dynaflight Butterfly with an OS15. Turned out beutifully, and flies great. >1,000' flights with ease!! A little hard to land with the 90' wing. ###off topic### We had a black out on our 3rd flight and crashed pretty hard. Our club president was right there , saw the whole thing, and did a 'crash analysis'. The blinking light on the Ar500 Rx indicates a lost signal. Batteries all checked out good.

Web Research confirmed Spektrum had a problem with some of the AR500 (DSM2) reveivers. Even though Spektrum cust service refused to admit this, its all over the web, and even the hobby store that sold me the radio knew about the issue. I was pretty pissed that they sold be the radio even though they know about the (potential) issue. I was on the fence about stepping up to the DX6 anyway, so it would not have taken much to convince me. (rant off) Anyway, Sent to whole set back to Horizon Hobby and had it replaced with the DSMx version that comes with the AR600/DSMx setup.

No issues with that set up. Shortly ended up buying the DX6i and now use the Dx5 as a trainer slave unit. (great feature)

I have a little advice on this topic:
-I like the "Keep it simple" mentality, when possible. You may find the DX7,8,9 radios are way more than you need, and don't want to hassle with all the switches, knobs and settings. I think the DX6i is a good compramise, unless you are sure you want/need the functionality.
-You can also just use the trim adjusters to get your flight modes. If using Elevons, you just trim down a few clicks for launch and click back under glide. (thats the old school way)
-Stay away from an AR500 recivers (don't think its good for rockets anyway)
-I really like the Dx6i. 10 model memory is nice.
-I fly only DSMx in models that I really care about.
-I buy cheap DSM2 clone receivers for my foamies and park flyers (can be had for <$10 each)
-HobbyKing sells servos and clone Receivers very cheap. They also sell DSM2 transmitters, but I have not used them.

 

[fulldec]

Wow, $299 for a DX9 is a great deal. I would jump on that if I needed a radio right now. I got back into RC flying about 3 years ago. (Flew old AM/FM gear back in the 80s).

My first radio was the Spektum Dx5 (DSM2) which turned out to be a colossal failure! Son and I build up a nice Dynaflight Butterfly with an OS15. Turned out beutifully, and flies great. >1,000' flights with ease!! A little hard to land with the 90' wing. ###off topic### We had a black out on our 3rd flight and crashed pretty hard. Our club president was right there , saw the whole thing, and did a 'crash analysis'. The blinking light on the Ar500 Rx indicates a lost signal. Batteries all checked out good.

Web Research confirmed Spektrum had a problem with some of the AR500 (DSM2) reveivers. Even though Spektrum cust service refused to admit this, its all over the web, and even the hobby store that sold me the radio knew about the issue. I was pretty pissed that they sold be the radio even though they know about the (potential) issue. I was on the fence about stepping up to the DX6 anyway, so it would not have taken much to convince me. (rant off) Anyway, Sent to whole set back to Horizon Hobby and had it replaced with the DSMx version that comes with the AR600/DSMx setup.

No issues with that set up. Shortly ended up buying the DX6i and now use the Dx5 as a trainer slave unit. (great feature)

I have a little advice on this topic:
-I like the "Keep it simple" mentality, when possible. You may find the DX7,8,9 radios are way more than you need, and don't want to hassle with all the switches, knobs and settings. I think the DX6i is a good compramise, unless you are sure you want/need the functionality.
-You can also just use the trim adjusters to get your flight modes. If using Elevons, you just trim down a few clicks for launch and click back under glide. (thats the old school way)
-Stay away from an AR500 recivers (don't think its good for rockets anyway)
-I really like the Dx6i. 10 model memory is nice.
-I fly only DSMx in models that I really care about.
-I buy cheap DSM2 clone receivers for my foamies and park flyers (can be had for <$10 each)
-HobbyKing sells servos and clone Receivers very cheap. They also sell DSM2 transmitters, but I have not used them.

A few comments on this post. I, too, have a DX6i and it is a nice TX for the money. Ten model memories seemed like a lot when I started. Now with a few (inexpensive) electrics and a several RCRGs, I've run out of slots in the memory. Something with more memory or the ability to store more on an SD card will really make the TX more "future proof" for someone starting out.

Note that the DX9 is $399 not $299 (I wish it was).

I have to disagree that using your trim adjusters to get flight modes is keeping it simple. There are many cases where the range of trim adjustment is very wide in order to handle both boost and glide configurations. Switching a wide range of trim during the transition phase (and getting it set right) is a distraction in a critical phase of the flight. When you have more than one model, remembering where the trim settings should be is not trivial in the brief period of boost/transition/glide. Can be done, but not simple in flight.

The DX6i does have the capability to mix a channel (like elevator) with the flap switch that can be used to act as a pretty good "flight mode" switch. It's downside is that you only get one channel in the mix (at least that I can figure out, so no rudder adjustment for boost mode), but more importantly, if you tweak the boost trim, that same tweak is dialed into the glide trim (and vice versa). What this means is that getting a good baseline set up for both boost and glide trim settings requires some combination of trim settings and tweaking the flap mix.

Getting a TX with true flight modes makes all that simple. Dial in your trim set up in boost mode, switch to glide mode and dial in that trim setting. You go from one mode to the other with a flick of a switch. Any future changes in either mode do not affect the other mode. Also, no mixes required. Unfortunately, flight modes only tend to be available on higher end TXs, like the DX8 and DX9.

Lastly, just a clarification. The cheap HobbyKing RXs are compatible designs, not clones. Clones usually refer to knock off copies that are often marketed as genuine Spektrum hardware, ie counterfeits. They may or may not work well. HK is clear that their hardware is their own design that is compatible with the Spektrum equipment. I have flown several of the cheap HK receivers and all have worked well for me in RCRG's flown on C motors or less. I agree they are a great value. I haven't flown them on higher power models yet.

Don

 

[degreaser]

Take a look at the FrSky Taranis X9D. I currently have some Futaba FM radios and a 7C 2.4GHz radio but the Taranis looks to be outstanding. There's a very lengthy thread here. More extensive documentation is at the opentx site. There are some very good utube reviews of it as well. The only problem is that the manufacturer grossly underestimated demand so they are next to impossible to get at the moment.

 

[jsargevt]

Take a look at the FrSky Taranis X9D. I currently have some Futaba FM radios and a 7C 2.4GHz radio but the Taranis looks to be outstanding. There's a very lengthy thread here. More extensive documentation is at the opentx site. There are some very good utube reviews of it as well. The only problem is that the manufacturer grossly underestimated demand so they are next to impossible to get at the moment.

Yes the FrSKY looks really, really cool and the price is amazing for the flexibility. The unobtainium of it at the moment prevented me from looking closer at it - additionally the programming of it seems to be more complex to a complete newbie such as myself. I am sure that it isn't any more complex than any other computer transmitter but I can get help locally to understand the Spektrum/JR type radios programmed correctly.

I think that I'm going to stick with a Spektrum (or maybe a used JR) RX just because I can get local help for it and they seem to have good price/performance ratio. Kind of like how people use CTI or AT based on local vendors it seems to be the same in the RC world.

On a related note, I seem to have started a glider revolution at the local field. Last weekend someone brought in another Calypso and my mentor picked up a 3m electric glider that he is going to fly this weekend, weather permitting. Fun!

 

[degreaser]

Yes the FrSKY looks really, really cool and the price is amazing for the flexibility. The unobtainium of it at the moment prevented me from looking closer at it - additionally the programming of it seems to be more complex to a complete newbie such as myself. I am sure that it isn't any more complex than any other computer transmitter but I can get help locally to understand the Spektrum/JR type radios programmed correctly.

The programming is *different*, not necessarily more complex. Plus you can do it from your PC rather than having to push buttons on the tx. There's also a PC based sim that allows you to see the control surfaces move as you construct the programming.

From what I've been reading, the Taranis is going to be their entry level transmitter with two other models currently planned.

Speaking of gliders, the HK Skyfun is back in stock in the US. I grabbed one

 

[rokitflite]

... just because I can get local help for it...

An EXCELLENT and IMPORTANT consideration!!!

I just got a DX8 on Tuesday.

 

[jsargevt]

An EXCELLENT and IMPORTANT consideration!!!

I just got a DX8 on Tuesday.

NICE! I am going to talk to the guys at the field this weekend. A couple of them are looking to upgrade so maybe a deal will be had on a DX7/8 soon.

 

[jsargevt]

Speaking of gliders, the HK Skyfun is back in stock in the US. I grabbed one

Aieeeee.....more money to spend. I might have to wait until 2014 to get any more kits. My wife is beginning to notice the large collection of stuff in the basement between rockets and planes. I have been having fun building from scratch a Fred's Frog. For a few dollars of balsa it keeps me occupied....I'll see if I can get some pictures of it this weekend.

 

[degreaser]

Here are some early concept images of the next two FrSky radios. Go ahead and drool...

 

[rokitflite]

Or you can go with the new Estes 2.4 transmitter... Go ahead and drool

 

[degreaser]

Or you can go with the new Estes 2.4 transmitter... Go ahead and drool

Is that for their micro/mini aircraft? DSM2?

You could always get one of these for a mere $3K




Or one of these for $1500




And one of these for ~$100 and some paint.




I think that swirl painting technique has potential for rockets too.

 

[jsargevt]

mmmmm Jeti.

That Estes controller has to be for one of their RTF planes or helicopters. I'll have to look around but it would be too cool if they developed a RC rocket glider/boost glider with a price-effective RC system. That likely would get a lot more people interested in RCBG.

 

[degreaser]

mmmmm Jeti.

That Estes controller has to be for one of their RTF planes or helicopters. I'll have to look around but it would be too cool if they developed a RC rocket glider/boost glider with a price-effective RC system. That likely would get a lot more people interested in RCBG.

Estes used to have a couple of very nice gliders but the complexity of the build put people off I think. It may have cost them a lot to produce the kits too.

I doubt the range on the Estes controller is terribly great though. It's likely meant for indoor usage.

Did you get your tx yet?

 

[kjohnson]

[YOUTUBE]XS_VuDNmS9Q[/YOUTUBE]

 

[degreaser]

Ha! Explain that to the cop who pulls you over

 

[jsargevt]

Did you get your tx yet?

Yep Santa came early with a DX9. Sold off some unused downhill ski gear to offset the pain (it was my wife's - she gave alpine a shot and didn't care for it).

Really nice radio and not that difficult to program in basic stuff. I have a flap set and some servos headed in for my calypso that should give me some more experience programming the radio and setting up flight modes. Like I said before - i am still in the phase where everything I do teaches me something I didn't really know. I can say that as-is the radio is way more advanced than I am. It is a little overwhelming at times for sure.

I am considering building an e-glider out of balsa this winter just for the experience. Maybe a DJ Aerotech Chrysalis 2m or a Skybench Olympic. I am not sure yet but I have time to decide. I need to look at my rocket kits to see what I want to build this winter as well and go from there.