Our journey begins in earnest...

[jqavins]

Well, you've got a point about the heating of the whole length. It's fairly plain to see that the Estes igniters are one piece of wire, so nichrome the whole length, and I assumed the Quests were the same, but now I'm doubting. It seems like the welding would be an expensive extra step, you're right about the resistance of 16" of nichrome wire.

It also seems like we've got a case of battling assumptions. I've got a bunch of the igniters in my field box; I'll try one when I get home from work. For now, lunch hour is over.

 

[Donnie]

Well, you've got a point about the heating of the whole length. It's fairly plain to see that the Estes igniters are one piece of wire, so nichrome the whole length, and I assumed the Quests were the same, but now I'm doubting. It seems like the welding would be an expensive extra step, you're right about the resistance of 16" of nichrome wire.

It also seems like we've got a case of battling assumptions. I've got a bunch of the igniters in my field box; I'll try one when I get home from work. For now, lunch hour is over.

Battling assumptions... I like that, lol.

I've got some extra solar igniters at home, so I'll dissect one of those if you're going to take care of the quest side. I have some quest igniters, but I think I only have enough for the motors I have, no spares.

I'm inclined to think the estes solar igniters are not, in fact, one single conductor. I had a spent one that we re-used for probably 10-12 times for my daughter's 4-H demonstration talks over the last couple months. It broke apart at the "pyrogen" end and I had to twist and solder it together. If you can't solder nichrome, then it definitely is NOT nichrome the entire length of the bare lead, as I was able to solder the twisted end together (the simulated "igniter" portion) with no issues.

I'm guessing that there's a smaller piece of nichrome that's bridging the two pieces of larger, bare lead wire together, and that the entire bridge and its connection points with the lead wire are dipped in the pyrogen.

Like I said, I'll dissect one this evening or next and we'll see for sure.

Thanks for bringing this up; love these kinds of discussions, as usually everyone who participates or reads them will come away having learned at least SOMETHING.

 

[JeromeK99]

Not to sidetrack this discussion.. but you can use the Estes Starters on Quest motors and visa-verse.

I typically save the Quest starters for clusters and trading. Though I have no real problem using the Estes starters for clustering on our club's 12v system, its just the Quest wires are easier to deal with.

Also be aware that the Quest starters can ignite upon the continuity check of the older Estes launch contollers (the newer ones have an LED light).

Jerome

 

[jqavins]

Well, you've got a point about the heating of the whole length. It's fairly plain to see that the Estes igniters are one piece of wire, so nichrome the whole length, and I assumed the Quests were the same, but now I'm doubting. It seems like the welding would be an expensive extra step, you're right about the resistance of 16" of nichrome wire.

It also seems like we've got a case of battling assumptions. I've got a bunch of the igniters in my field box; I'll try one when I get home from work. For now, lunch hour is over.

OK, here are my results. The Estes Solar igniters are hard to solder to, but it can be done with ordinary rosin core solder (lead free) and a low mass, 800° tip. (Or was it 700°?) At first the solder wouldn't wet the wire, then I sanded it with some 800 grit I had handy, and the solder still barely flowed, but it did. (I could barely see any solder on the wire and wasn't sure it had flowed until later.) The Quest Q2G2 was also impossible at first, but sanding with the same 800 grit revealed copper. I would guess the plating was nickel based on the facts that nickel is not uncommon as a plating over copper wire and nickel can't be soldered with rosin core. After tinning the copper I held the two igniters' leads together and heated them again, and got a joint which passes the totally uncalibrated tug test. That's what convinced me that the solder had, in fact, flowed over the Estes wire.

So, both kinds can be soldered, but only after sanding, and it's still a lot easier with the Q2G2. One more reason that the Estes igniters are OK, but inferior to the Quest. (Granted, it's a reason that will almost never really come up.)

Not to sidetrack this discussion.. but you can use the Estes Starters on Quest motors and visa-verse.

Q2G2 in Estes engines: yes. Solar igniters in Quest engines: I don't see why not, but I don't think I've done it before.

Also be aware that the Quest starters can ignite upon the continuity check of the older Estes launch contollers (the newer ones have an LED light)

Quite so; thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Donnie]

Hey guys, haven't fallen off the face of the earth, lol. Was busy monday evening and had a tooth pulled yesterday, so I've taken a bit of time off.

Thanks for your input guys, and I'll reply more in-depth today or tomorrow. Thanks again!

 

[Donnie]

The one club in Kansas that I'm familiar with is Kloudbusters, who fly in Argonia. We make the pilgrimage from Arizona every year to attend thier Airfest launch in August. More info. here: https://www.kloudbusters.org/

Looks like we're going to be able to make it to Airfest this year, though only on Saturday. Went ahead and joined TRA so that I can get more access if people have the opportunity / time / patience to give the new guy a tour. There's a shot that we might even join Kloudbusters.

surprised that it hasn't been mentioned yet(so I will ). The Handbook of Model Rocketry (by G Harry Stine) is a nice place to start and a fair number of public libraries can get it for (for check out/loan), as mentioned Apogee does have a number of how-to videos.
Rex

Picked up a copy on inter-library loan just this past saturday. Lots of great stuff in there. Barely into it and already learning things I wished I had known before, lol.