Our journey begins in earnest...

[Donnie]

Since I'm not knowledgeable or important enough to have my own blog, I'm going to start a thread that will chronicle my foray into rocketry as a real hobby.

My primary hobby and passion is fireworks. I do 1.4G (consumer class) pyromusicals, which basically means pyro synched to music, electrically-fired via a computer-fired system, in my case Cobra Firing Systems. So, it comes as no surprise that I've dabbled in rocketry.



BACKGROUND:

Up to this point, we've only done the Estes stuff, and never very seriously. Just something cool to do when it's nice outside. Here's a pic of our current stable:



Some of these are mine, some belong to my girls. I'll mention here that my wife and I have three little girls, ages 8, 7 and 4.

The Amazon and Shuttle Express are mine, and were Christmas and Birtday gifts, respectively. The uniquely-painted Baby Bertha was the first kit I assembled with the older girls, and it's probably their favorite rocket. It's super-easy to prep as it has lots of room, and it has been a pretty consistent performer. I guess it's not the first one we built together; we built an Estes Skywriter, and launched it once, only to have it drift away never to be found again.

The three Bandit rockets belong to the girls, one for each. These are neat little kits, but pretty difficult to prep because of the narrow body tubes (is fuselage a correct term as well?).



TIME TO TAKE IT A BIT MORE SERIOUSLY:

So now, the older two are doing rocketry as a 4-H project, so I figured we'd better step it up a little bit. In our little corner of Southeast KS, there are usually only one or two rocket entries per fair. They're all simple kits--roughly finished (like ours up to this point, lol)--and usually seem to have little thought put into what the participant is trying to get out of the project.

I did some research and found Apogee Components. Started looking around, and saw they had a wealth of products and information on their website. Our girls each (independently) chose the Quest Payloader One kits, and I ordered an assortment of motors and a spare 'chute as well. Here's our first shipment:


You'll see the (2) Payloader One's, the motors, and the spare parachute. Also pictured is the other half of my starter set that included the Amazon, namely the Crossfire ISX. I'll start that kit later, likely after we're "done" with the 4-H project stuff. I hear it's a great kit!

One of my first impressions was how much higher-quality the quest motors and igniters seem than the estes stuff I've used up until now. There's a nicely formed nozzle on the motors, and the igniters are basically smaller-scale versions of the commercial e-match I use in fireworks displays. Much nicer than the fragile, bare-wire Solar Flare igniters put out by Estes.



THE GEEK ABIDES:

While I'm not really smart enough to consider myself a true geek, I'm at the very least a geek wannabe. One of the 4-H requirements is that you have an altitude measurement method to see how high your rocket flew. One of the measurement options is estimation based upon the rocket size and motor size (reading the package, so to speak), and fully 100% of the entrants I've personally seen use this method. I mentioned I'm an instrumentation tech, right? SO, I asked our girls if they wanted to get an altimeter to ride on-board and tell us how high the rocket reaaallly went. Of course they were up for it, so it was off to do some research. I'd seen the Estes Altimeter, as well as the Jolly Logic Altimeter One and Two, but hadn't really done any research other than that. Was I about to be surprised!!!

Only a couple minutes in, and I'm finding a website (altduino.de) where someone had made their own logging altimeter from the arduino platform. Not only that, he starts talking about this thing called "dual deployment." Well, I've now spent much more time than I should since a week ago and have become completely enamored with the electronics side of the hobby. Altimeters, logging, dual-deployment, all of it.

But, for now, I needed to get a relatively light, relatively simple, relatively inexpensive altimeter for the task at hand, namely an 8 yr old and a 7 yr old. They're not going to be nearly as impressed with flight curves and dual deployment as I am, and I'm already financing some new firing system equipment for the fireworks side of life... So, I decided upon the PerfectFlite FireFly. It looks to give max altitude, and (derived) max. velocity. Plus, I like some of their other offerings for further down the road (such as the StratoLogger CF).

Apogee didn't offer the FireFly, so it should be delivered any day now by Rocketarium. Can't wait to get it and fly it a couple times in our existing rockets!

Also inspired by the AltDuino project, I plan to get a keychain video camera for onboard video. In fact, I think that's the part the girls are most interested in after they watched some onboards.



WHERE TO GO FROM HERE?

Well, I've already discussed the 4H stuff, so getting the rockets built properly (including filling, sanding, etc), getting the altimeter up and getting a camera going will be top priorities.

I also would like to fly that Crossfire, so I'll need to get to building on it as well. I'm thinking of replacing its parachute with a streamer recovery system, considering the number of them that have been lost to even a slight wind.

Also, further down the road, I'd really like to get into dual deployment. I'm wondering if the Amazon is a good candidate for modification. It's got plenty of usable real estate, and doesn't go so high that it'd be damaged too badly by a drogue landing. My main concern is if it gets high enough... we'll have to see.

I'd also like to get into multi-staging eventually, again inspired by one of my first real rocketry reads, the AltDuino project.



THAT'S IT FOR NOW!

Thanks for your interest, and please feel free to make comments, suggestions, whatever along the way. Thanks in advance for your help along this journey!

 

[Fishhead]

Always nice to hear of kids who take an interest in the hobby. My son and his friends were interested as long as there was promise of post-launch Taco Bell, Skyline, Chipotle or Fazoli's. It got to the point that not even the promise of food shoveled down their gullet would make them take an interest, so I went it alone.

 

[JeromeK99]

Welcome to this madness we call Rocketry and to TRF!

First thing I would recommend is finding a club to launch with. You will find a wealth of knowledge gladly shared and like minds to fuel you new obsession! Rocket folks are some of the most friendly and helpful folks of any hobby around!

As for you Amazon rocket, probably not a great candidate for a dual-deploy. For an 18mm motor rocket, you are already pushing the max liftoff weight of a BP C6 motor (4.0 oz). It also doesn't go that high at 600ft. You should step it to more of a Mid-Power (24mm-29mm motor mount and E-G impulse) to really be able to do what you are attempting. Then motor certification to get you to where it sounds like you'll have the most fun.

Jerome

 

[Rex R]

there are 18mm D motors*... though valuerockets.com has had better deals on them than apogee.
*D10, D21 just to name a couple
Rex

 

[blackbrandt]

Have fun! Looks like the bug already bit. Have you heard about Level 1 certification yet?

 

[Donnie]

Thanks for the replies. I'll check around and see if there are any clubs close-by... that is always one of the big recommendations with people looking to get into fireworks displays as well.

As for the certifications (and the Estes Amazon dual-deployment idea), I know I have a LOT to learn still... these are very much preliminary goals, and I know they'll change as I learn more about this stuff.

In addition to clubs and reading this forum, what are some good places to learn how this stuff all works? I guess by that, I mean... impulse levels, max. recommended loads for a given impulse, at what size or power level do I need to be licensed to fly, etc.?

I'm looking to take this slow and enjoy the progression... but I'm always up for learning what comes next. I'm fairly decent at learning the electronics end of things, so I'm likely looking more for recommendations on the rockets themselves, at least at this point.

 

[blackbrandt]

Searching the forum is an awesome way to learn stuff. What I like to do is search a random word and start reading threads that interest me.

You need to be certified to fly H and higher motors. There are a few more motors you need certification for, but for the most part, it is just H motors and higher. (DON'T START THIS DEBATE AGAIN)

No problem taking it slow. In fact, good job for taking it slow, unlike some of the people on here... cough cough (me).

My comment about L1 was a jesty comment that we tell to most newbies.

 

[boomtube-mk2]

I’ve Goggled until I can Google no more and I can’t find any state or Canadian Province with a town, city or municipality called Earnest.

But assuming you do indeed intend to start in Earnest; where, pray tell, do you intend to end up at?
And how far away from each other are they?
Perhaps a set of GPS coordinates could be included.

 

[Wayco]

You have already found a great source of info. on our hobby. Apogee components has a wealth of information, just click on the "Education" box at the top of the webpage. I spent quite a bit of time there when I started out. Take your time, no need to jump right into high power certification. There are plenty of low power and mid power rockets you can build along the way.
Dual deployment can be tricky, but as you fly higher, it becomes necessary. I wouldn't get into that until you are flying rockets over 2000 ft. When you do, start with a reliable altimeter like the Stratologger or RRC2+. Not that there aren't plenty of good altimeters in the market, but simple is better to start with.

When you want to get into two stage rockets, the Estes "Mongoose" and Apogee's "Rip Roar" are excellent choices. Black powder motors are easy to stage and the gap staged Rip Roar is one of my favorites.

The one club in Kansas that I'm familiar with is Kloudbusters, who fly in Argonia. We make the pilgrimage from Arizona every year to attend thier Airfest launch in August. More info. here: https://www.kloudbusters.org/

 

[Rex R]

surprised that it hasn't been mentioned yet(so I will ). The Handbook of Model Rocketry (by G Harry Stine) is a nice place to start and a fair number of public libraries can get it for (for check out/loan), as mentioned Apogee does have a number of how-to videos.
Rex

 

[Kirk G]

You can also find copies of The Handbook of Model Rocketry on Amazon.com (as well as ex-library copies) for a reduced amount in excellent shape (uncirculated!)...and I've found that a very handy book to have on hand as reference.

 

[Donnie]

I'll certainly pick up a copy of the Handbook.

As another note, the FireFly arrived on friday!

 

[Bat-mite]

The Stine book is great -- real soup to nuts of rockets and rocket science. For your high power questions, Modern High Power Rocketry 2 by Canepa is a must read. Explains Levels 1, 2, & 3, how to build a rocket for each, how to load motors, how to add retention, how to do dual deployment, and everything else imaginable. With tons of pictures.

National Association of Rocketry website.

Tripoli Rocketry Association webite.

 

[Donnie]

The Stine book is great -- real soup to nuts of rockets and rocket science. For your high power questions, Modern High Power Rocketry 2 by Canepa is a must read. Explains Levels 1, 2, & 3, how to build a rocket for each, how to load motors, how to add retention, how to do dual deployment, and everything else imaginable. With tons of pictures.

National Association of Rocketry website.

Tripoli Rocketry Association webite.

Thanks!

 

[CZ Brat]

Hear is another resource, Info Central. It is almost an entire manual of rocketry in one website. Whether you want to know the best ways to fill Balsa on you skill level 1 Estes rocket or how to vacuum laminate carbon fiber on a scratch built super sonic rocket, this site has it.

https://info-central.org/

 

[Bat-mite]

As well as John Coker's site. https://https://www.jcrocket.com/

 

[1tree]

I am guessing that they would not be considered South West KS, but there is a group launches near Argonia. My own goal is to make their AIR Fest this year.

https://www.kloudbusters.org

 

[jqavins]

What follows may sound a bit like shilling for Apogee, but that's largely because that's where I got a great deal of my information, so it's what I know about. But also because they really are a good resource.

• Someone mentioned their videos. There are actually quite a bunch of them. I've only watched one or two. They seem to be pretty good, and sometimes a video demonstration of something is invaluable. Come to think of it, why the heck haven't I watched more?
• They publish a free bi-weekly newsletter called Peak of Flight. Subscribe. Now. Also, look through the archive, as there is a huge wealth of information to be had there.
• Get simulation software. Apogee sells a program called RockSim that has a 30 day trial version, and there is a good free program called OpenRocket. I use RockSim regularly. I've used OpenRocket a little, and find it a little awkward and missing a few features, but that's likey because I'm not as used to it as I am to RockSim. Either one will do.
• I agree with the suggestion to join a club. Beware, though, that when you ask a club "How do I..." you're likey to get 6 people offering 7 answers, and half of them are quite firm that theirs is the only correct way. I bet it's the same in pyrotechnics. (It's worse in bee keeping.)
• One more thing about Apogee: You can send questions to them. The owner, Tim, is very knowledgable and happy to help.

OK, the last thing I'll say about Apogee is this, and it's a purely personal thing. You've probably noticed that their prices are a bit higher than some of the competitors like Rocketarium. When I consider the price I'd gladly pay for a year-long subscription to Peak of Flight and amortize that price over the amount of stuff I buy yearly, and their prices don't look so bad, so I'm glad to pay them. Usually.

There are plenty of good places to buy your stuff, and lots of good sources of information. As much as I like Apogee, I will not try to tell you that they're the best or that you should buy from them.

 

[GlenP]

Did you see the new altimeter three with smart phone/tablet interface?
https://www.jollylogic.com/products/altimeterthree/

 

[Donnie]

Hear is another resource, Info Central. It is almost an entire manual of rocketry in one website. Whether you want to know the best ways to fill Balsa on you skill level 1 Estes rocket or how to vacuum laminate carbon fiber on a scratch built super sonic rocket, this site has it.

https://info-central.org/

Will definitely check that out.

As well as John Coker's site. https://https://www.jcrocket.com/

And that.

I am guessing that they would not be considered South West KS, but there is a group launches near Argonia. My own goal is to make their AIR Fest this year.

https://www.kloudbusters.org

You're not the first person that's mentioned Air Fest. I'll say I'm definitely considering it, but I have some other pyro-related commitments around that same time frame.

What follows may sound a bit like shilling for Apogee, but that's largely because that's where I got a great deal of my information, so it's what I know about. But also because they really are a good resource.

• Someone mentioned their videos. There are actually quite a bunch of them. I've only watched one or two. They seem to be pretty good, and sometimes a video demonstration of something is invaluable. Come to think of it, why the heck haven't I watched more?
• They publish a free bi-weekly newsletter called Peak of Flight. Subscribe. Now. Also, look through the archive, as there is a huge wealth of information to be had there.
• Get simulation software. Apogee sells a program called RockSim that has a 30 day trial version, and there is a good free program called OpenRocket. I use RockSim regularly. I've used OpenRocket a little, and find it a little awkward and missing a few features, but that's likey because I'm not as used to it as I am to RockSim. Either one will do.
• I agree with the suggestion to join a club. Beware, though, that when you ask a club "How do I..." you're likey to get 6 people offering 7 answers, and half of them are quite firm that theirs is the only correct way. I bet it's the same in pyrotechnics. (It's worse in bee keeping.)
• One more thing about Apogee: You can send questions to them. The owner, Tim, is very knowledgable and happy to help.

OK, the last thing I'll say about Apogee is this, and it's a purely personal thing. You've probably noticed that their prices are a bit higher than some of the competitors like Rocketarium. When I consider the price I'd gladly pay for a year-long subscription to Peak of Flight and amortize that price over the amount of stuff I buy yearly, and their prices don't look so bad, so I'm glad to pay them. Usually.

There are plenty of good places to buy your stuff, and lots of good sources of information. As much as I like Apogee, I will not try to tell you that they're the best or that you should buy from them.

I have indeed been very impressed by Apogee thus far, and I intend to continue to give them a lot of my interest and business in the future. They have a wealth of knowledge and products, plus it's obvious that they're passionate about what they do.

I have no problem paying a small premium if someone's DOING something with it, which they obviously do. Research isn't free, and they seem to do a lot of research.

As for the simulation software, I could see us getting there eventually... but for this year, we'll stick to basics. At this stage in the game, I'd like to sink my scarce resources into more electronics, as that's just what I'm into right now. Plus, the kiddos will definitely dig having on-board video .

I don't plan to get certified, at least not immediately. But, who knows what's down the road?!?!

Did you see the new altimeter three with smart phone/tablet interface?
https://www.jollylogic.com/products/altimeterthree/

I did, and I almost bought one but that would have nearly doubled our initial investment. Plus, I would like to fly an altimeter in my Crossfire when I get it built, and the FireFly was a fair amount smaller and lighter than the Altimeter Three.

I DO definitely like that the Altimeter Three supports exports of the raw data. The on-app curves are nice--and definitely would be handy in the field--but it's also nice to be able to manipulate the data yourself.

Actually, the entire Jolly Logic background and philosophy seems very much to be a parallel of Cobra Firing Systems, the maker of the firing system I use in the fireworks world. VERY MUCH PARALLEL.

 

[jqavins]

As for the simulation software, I could see us getting there eventually... but for this year, we'll stick to basics. At this stage in the game, I'd like to sink my scarce resources into more electronics, as that's just what I'm into right now. Plus, the kiddos will definitely dig having on-board video .

I'll try not to harp on it, but I feel compelled to try once to convince you on this. OpenRocket, the free simulation program, is quite good, so it shouldn't be a matter monetary resources. As for time resources, I understand but it is a good investment.

I get the impression from your phrasing that you see this software as a design tool, and you're planning to stick with kits at least for the moment. But the software is more than that; it's the flight simulations that will be of great value, even now. When you add an altimeter or other payload to a kit rocket, you change its flight dynamics. Not only will it get less altitude than it would without, it will also change the stability which could cause unforeseen problems*; unforeseen unless you simulate first. You learn a lot, both theory and practical, by simulating before you fly.

Design files for most kits are available free. A bunch come packaged with RockSim, and even if you only get the demo version and don't buy you've got the design files, and OpenRocket can open those RockSim files. (Don't tell Tim I gave you that tip. ;-) Also, lots of RockSim and OpenRocket design files are available from this site. (And that's another good site to know about for other stuff as well.) So you get the design file, add the mass of your altimeter, camera, or whatever in the location that you plan to place it, then simulate flights with various engines and various wind conditions.

* For example, payloads are almost always placed near the tops of rockets for a couple of reasons: it keeps them protected from ejection gas and it increases the stability margin, where putting the payload low decreases the margin. But if you add a payload to a rocket not made for one, particularly a tall rocket, you can easily make it overstable and susceptable to excessive weather cocking. Or, you can use one of the reccomended engines but, with the added weight, not gain sufficient speed at the top of the launch rod to assure stability. The best way to guard against this sort of thing is simulation. The only other way is extensive experience, which is painfully bought.

OK, I've made my pitch, now I'll leave it alone.

 

[RodRocket]

The Jolly Logic units are easy to use. And you can print off a data sheet to write down the info off of the unit after recovery. I have one and launch it all the time.

Also this is a good site with tools that will make building easier. https://www.payloadbay.com/page-Tools.html

Kloudbusters has a two day event coming up Apr 11-12. It's the last launch until after wheat harvest. Weather is usually great. You will see everything from the small Estes to large high power at the event. Your family is welcome. Details are on the Kloudbusters site.

Enjoy the hobby and don't try to go too far too soon. Take your time with it and have fun.

 

[stunley12345]

I'm just getting back into rocketry as the father of an 11 year-old daughter and an 8 year-old son. When I was a kid, back in the 1970's, I would shoot off your basic Estes rockets, using a car battery for ignition, if I remember correctly. I don't recall havinhased g ignition problems, at all, but that seems to be the norm these days.

I recently purchased a few Estes kits and have tried launching on two separate occasions without success. Using B6-4 engines and Estes 302301 fuses and what seems to be a fairly cheapo ignition switch. What am I doing wrong? VERY FRUSTRATING.

 

[JeromeK99]

I'm just getting back into rocketry as the father of an 11 year-old daughter and an 8 year-old son. When I was a kid, back in the 1970's, I would shoot off your basic Estes rockets, using a car battery for ignition, if I remember correctly. I don't recall havinhased g ignition problems, at all, but that seems to be the norm these days.

I recently purchased a few Estes kits and have tried launching on two separate occasions without success. Using B6-4 engines and Estes 302301 fuses and what seems to be a fairly cheapo ignition switch. What am I doing wrong? VERY FRUSTRATING.

I have helped and been around a lot of new rocket folks over the years at both clubs I launch with. The single most problematic thing for beginners is the igniter (now called a "starter"). I try to tell and stress to the kids especially, not to play or overly handle their rocket once the igniter is installed. It can twist and short out, break or move out of place cause a failure to launch.

See the link below to view an Estes publication on Igniters.

https://www2.estesrockets.com/pdf/Estes_Igniters_and_their_use.pdf

Good Luck!

Jerome

 

[jqavins]

I recently purchased a few Estes kits and have tried launching on two separate occasions without success. Using B6-4 engines and Estes 302301 fuses and what seems to be a fairly cheapo ignition switch. What am I doing wrong? VERY FRUSTRATING.

Could be any of a bunch of things. Which "cheapo" launch controler, the Estes Electron Beam? If not, what's the battery? Any less than 4xAA cells I would be leary of. Are the cells fresh? But it could also be the igniters are not properly inserted. Or the igniters and/or engines are damp. You do have a motor installed, right? (Kidding!) Is the igniter igniting? Does it go "pop" or just smoke off?

At the last club launch I went to (much too long ago) I saw maybe 10 Estes Solar igniters smoke off without engine ignition, but never once did it happen with a Quest Q2G2 igniter; that was with a club owned 12V firing system. This is not to say that the Estes igniters are inferior; maybe more people have difficulty getting them installed correctly, with the pyrogen in good contact with the propellant.

In short: Need More Data.

 

[Donnie]

I'll try not to harp on it, but I feel compelled to try once to convince you on this. OpenRocket, the free simulation program, is quite good, so it shouldn't be a matter monetary resources. As for time resources, I understand but it is a good investment.

I get the impression from your phrasing that you see this software as a design tool, and you're planning to stick with kits at least for the moment. But the software is more than that; it's the flight simulations that will be of great value, even now. When you add an altimeter or other payload to a kit rocket, you change its flight dynamics. Not only will it get less altitude than it would without, it will also change the stability which could cause unforeseen problems*; unforeseen unless you simulate first. You learn a lot, both theory and practical, by simulating before you fly.

Design files for most kits are available free. A bunch come packaged with RockSim, and even if you only get the demo version and don't buy you've got the design files, and OpenRocket can open those RockSim files. (Don't tell Tim I gave you that tip. ;-) Also, lots of RockSim and OpenRocket design files are available from this site. (And that's another good site to know about for other stuff as well.) So you get the design file, add the mass of your altimeter, camera, or whatever in the location that you plan to place it, then simulate flights with various engines and various wind conditions.

* For example, payloads are almost always placed near the tops of rockets for a couple of reasons: it keeps them protected from ejection gas and it increases the stability margin, where putting the payload low decreases the margin. But if you add a payload to a rocket not made for one, particularly a tall rocket, you can easily make it overstable and susceptable to excessive weather cocking. Or, you can use one of the reccomended engines but, with the added weight, not gain sufficient speed at the top of the launch rod to assure stability. The best way to guard against this sort of thing is simulation. The only other way is extensive experience, which is painfully bought.

OK, I've made my pitch, now I'll leave it alone.

Thanks for the excellent explanation. Your assumption of not feeling the need to simulate because I plan to use kits was actually spot-on. I'll definitely take a look at the simulation software, as your rationale makes good sense. Thanks again, especially for the low-cost advice!

I'm just getting back into rocketry as the father of an 11 year-old daughter and an 8 year-old son. When I was a kid, back in the 1970's, I would shoot off your basic Estes rockets, using a car battery for ignition, if I remember correctly. I don't recall havinhased g ignition problems, at all, but that seems to be the norm these days.

I recently purchased a few Estes kits and have tried launching on two separate occasions without success. Using B6-4 engines and Estes 302301 fuses and what seems to be a fairly cheapo ignition switch. What am I doing wrong? VERY FRUSTRATING.

I have helped and been around a lot of new rocket folks over the years at both clubs I launch with. The single most problematic thing for beginners is the igniter (now called a "starter"). I try to tell and stress to the kids especially, not to play or overly handle their rocket once the igniter is installed. It can twist and short out, break or move out of place cause a failure to launch.

See the link below to view an Estes publication on Igniters.

https://www2.estesrockets.com/pdf/Estes_Igniters_and_their_use.pdf

Good Luck!

Jerome

Could be any of a bunch of things. Which "cheapo" launch controler, the Estes Electron Beam? If not, what's the battery? Any less than 4xAA cells I would be leary of. Are the cells fresh? But it could also be the igniters are not properly inserted. Or the igniters and/or engines are damp. You do have a motor installed, right? (Kidding!) Is the igniter igniting? Does it go "pop" or just smoke off?

At the last club launch I went to (much too long ago) I saw maybe 10 Estes Solar igniters smoke off without engine ignition, but never once did it happen with a Quest Q2G2 igniter; that was with a club owned 12V firing system. This is not to say that the Estes igniters are inferior; maybe more people have difficulty getting them installed correctly, with the pyrogen in good contact with the propellant.

In short: Need More Data.

I think the Solar Flare igniters are a PITA for sure. Between the bare leads and the fragile pyrogen application, they leave a lot to be desired. The Quest igniters I received from Apogee seem much, much nicer. Like a smaller version of the ematch I use for fireworks displays.

I wish you could buy them with a longer lead length. For displays, I typically use ematch with a 3m (meter) lead. We use modules or slats that usually have speaker terminals for the connections. No messing around with alligator clips, etc. Much cleaner setup IMO.

I say this as someone who's fairly new to rocketry, but who has wired / fired thousands of ematch doing fireworks displays.

On another note, I figured I'd post a pic of the PerfectFlite FireFly we plan to use. I've only done a couple of cupped-hand test "flights," but it seems to work as-advertised. For what it's worth, I'm having trouble inserting this picture in-line tonight... worked as expected when I was putting pics into my OP, but not tonight... no "upload" button after I've selected the file I wanted to insert. I had to go through the "attachments" in the advanced posting mode to get the pic up here tonight...

 

[jqavins]

I think the Solar Flare igniters are a PITA for sure. Between the bare leads and the fragile pyrogen application, they leave a lot to be desired. The Quest igniters I received from Apogee seem much, much nicer. Like a smaller version of the ematch I use for fireworks displays.

(Just incidentally, the igniters are called Solar Starters, not Solar Flare. Solar Flare is an Estes kit, a rather cool looking (IMO) ring tail two stager. But I pick nits.)

I wish you could buy them with a longer lead length. For displays, I typically use ematch with a 3m (meter) lead. We use modules or slats that usually have speaker terminals for the connections. No messing around with alligator clips, etc. Much cleaner setup IMO.

There is an 8" version. Not the length you want, I realize, but long enough to extend using small wire nuts if you really want.

 

[Donnie]

(Just incidentally, the igniters are called Solar Starters, not Solar Flare. Solar Flare is an Estes kit, a rather cool looking (IMO) ring tail two stager. But I pick nits.)

Thanks for the correction! I firmly believe that getting the details right is what makes things successful, even simple conversations. I'll make it a point to remember the correct name.

There is an 8" version. Not the length you want, I realize, but long enough to extend using small wire nuts if you really want.

Thanks for the link. If I really wanted to, I could just solder some extensions (from used fireworks ematch) onto the existing igniters... but, I'm not sure I care enough about it yet, lol. We'll see.

Thanks again for the info!

 

[jqavins]

Thanks for the link. If I really wanted to, I could just solder some extensions (from used fireworks ematch) onto the existing igniters...

Are you sure? Soldering to nichrome is, as I understand it, nearly impossible (like straight chromium; ever try taking an iron to an old TV antenna?) That's why I suggested wire nuts. But I'd be thrilled to be wrong about that.

 

[Donnie]

Are you sure? Soldering to nichrome is, as I understand it, nearly impossible (like straight chromium; ever try taking an iron to an old TV antenna?) That's why I suggested wire nuts. But I'd be thrilled to be wrong about that.

I've never tried to solder nichrome... I was assuming (could be way wrong here) that the existing leads on the quest igniters were tinned copper, and that I could solder the cut-off leads from a used ematch to the leads of the quest igniter. Perhaps the quest leads aren't copper, though?

The fireworks ematch I've used do indeed have copper leads (not tinned), and I'd suspect they're welded to the bridge / element of the match head. I was making an assumption that the quest leads were the same idea, only perhaps tinned copper since they're silver in color.

Given the amount of resistance that a several inch piece of even fairly heavy-gauge nichrome would have (as well as the issues that would arise from the entire lead of the match "heating"), I'm doubtful that the leads themselves on the quest igniters are nichrome, but I could easily be wrong.