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Back_at_it

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After a successful weekend of flying I decided that it's time to build something new. I've built a couple of New Ways rockets in the past and I love the quality of the kits and the unique design. This past weekend I had a chance to fly my Flat Boy and Sky Fighter along with a few scratch builds and some Estes and Custom rockets. . Both flew great but it was a bit windy for the Sky Fighter. While the flights were great it did make me realize that there is something missing in these kits. Due to the square body tube it is almost impossible to stop from burning the parachute. They desperately need a baffle. I read that these need a bit more wadding so I went from my normal 4 sheets to 6 sheets but still melted a hole in the chute. Next flight I upped that to 8 sheets, same issue. With the Sky Fighter you have the room for more but the Flat Boy is small so I used 3 sheets and a little bit of dog barf but same result. Just food for thought for the supplier.

Either way I'm not discouraged and will continue to buy and build these kits but add my own baffle system to them. With all of that said, I'm starting on my Excoct kit this evening. I'll post pics along the way on how I handle the baffle but this is a long rocket so I shouldn't have any issues making something work.

Here is a kit pic to get started.
 

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Back_at_it

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Made some progress on this last night. After thinking about how I wanted to do the baffle I came up with a couple of options.


Let start with the one that I decided the go with. I figured that extending the existing motor tube and building a baffle into that tube would be the simplest solution and it was going great until........

I started by replacing the stock motor tube with a spare 6-3/4 inch piece of BT20. I then used one of the cardboard centering rings as a template and cut a new upper ring out of 3/32 ply. Next I cut three 1/2 moon shapes that would fit inside the BT20 tube. See the first pic attached. BTW. I didn't use the motor retainer as I like my rockets to stand on their own and the fin design would not allow it.

I then assembled the motor mount using stock centering rings positioned at the end and center of the tubes. The Ply centering ring was used at the top as it will give me a solid place to mount an eye hook for my Kevlar line. The stock motor thrust ring was then installed and the 1/2 moon shaped pieces were positioned in the upper part of the tube approx. 3/4 if an inch apart and let dry. Everything got a nice coat of Titebond 2 to keep it in place and the baffles were coated to protect the wood. See photo 2 and 3.

Now the problem. After attaching the Kevlar line I attempted to fish the line down past the baffles and out the bottom side of the motor mount to keep it out of the way while I glued the assembly in place. This was almost impossible. After messing with it for 45 mins. I was ready to cut the mount in half and make it two separate piece which is what I should have done in the first place. I literally threw it on the bench and headed out to dinner. After dinner I returned to it and noticed that the line was now poking past the last baffle and I could grab it with tweezers. Go figure....

Going forward the baffle will always be separate from the mount. I'm not going to try to take the easy way out with a one piece mount again.

Other ideas I kicked around.

- Cut the body tube in half and insert baffles on opposite sides of the tube walls then make a coupler and glue the body tube back together. Would work but no place to mount a shock cord.

- Cut slots in the body tube on opposite sides and insert the pieces of ply to create a baffle. Same issue as above with no place to mount the shock cord and adds more finishing work.

- Finally a better solution.... I found that 29mm standard wall tubing is a perfect fit inside the square tube. It slides easily and does not distort the body tube. Placing a single 1/2 moon ring inside this tubing then capping the top and bottom with holes would work great. This is the method I'm going with from now on with these rockets. It keeps the baffle separate, the 29mm tube is large enough not to restrict flow and large enough to get my fingers in. It also gives me a solid place to mount the shock cord. I'm going to build one of these shortly as I need to retrofit the New Way rockets I already have built.
 

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jqavins

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My first baffle thought was this: since many baffles are built in couplers as containing structures, construct a square coupler and mount the rectangular baffle plates in that. Attach the shock cord to the forward baffle plate.

Then either cut the body tube to install the coupler/baffle or push it into position from one end with non-grabby glue.
 

j.a.duke

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- Finally a better solution.... I found that 29mm standard wall tubing is a perfect fit inside the square tube. It slides easily and does not distort the body tube. Placing a single 1/2 moon ring inside this tubing then capping the top and bottom with holes would work great. This is the method I'm going with from now on with these rockets. It keeps the baffle separate, the 29mm tube is large enough not to restrict flow and large enough to get my fingers in. It also gives me a solid place to mount the shock cord. I'm going to build one of these shortly as I need to retrofit the New Way rockets I already have built.
Are the pictures you have included in your original post the 29mm tube solution? From the text, I would think not.

Can you please post pictures for the this? I’m trying to figure out how you would arrange motor mount and baffle.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Jon
 

Back_at_it

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Are the pictures you have included in your original post the 29mm tube solution? From the text, I would think not.

Can you please post pictures for the this? I’m trying to figure out how you would arrange motor mount and baffle.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Jon
No, Unfortunately they are not. I didn't figure out the 29mm tube idea until after I had this one built but was so frustrated by it that I knew there had to be another way. I have a a New Way Sky Fighter that i'm going to retrofit with a baffle to prevent burned parachutes that I experienced this past weekend.

I'll be sure to come back here and document that baffle build in the next couple of days.
 

Back_at_it

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My first baffle thought was this: since many baffles are built in couplers as containing structures, construct a square coupler and mount the rectangular baffle plates in that. Attach the shock cord to the forward baffle plate.

Then either cut the body tube to install the coupler/baffle or push it into position from one end with non-grabby glue.

That is an idea that crossed my mind but I passed on it as I don't know if New Way makes couplers. The idea of making my own out of Basswood did cross my mind. If a coupler is readily available that would be the easiest solution. Then I wouldn't be cutting 1/2 moon shapes out of ply wood.
 

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Made a little more progress. Got the forward fins attached today and will probably have the rears done tonight.

I noticed three things when attaching the fins.

- The smooth top outer lay of the tube isn't glued down very well and tends to lift at the seams. I have not see this on any of my other New Way rockets so I'm wondering if it is just something with this kit.

- The smooth outer layer doesn't absorb glue. It just sits on top. Add that to the fact that the top layer peels easily.......

- The Balsa that the fins are cut from is extremely soft and frays even when sanded with 400 grit.

I decided that I wanted to cut through the top layer of the tube to get down to something more substantial. A small section was cut and the top layer removed the entire length of the fins. It is also about 1/16 of an inch wider than the fins to allow for the fillets. I actually cleaned this up a bit to make it a bit more straight after the pic was taken. Once this is done the glue soaks in great and I have no doubts about the strength of the joints. See first photo below.

From there a nice bead of Titebond 2 was applied to both surfaces and let sit for about 1 minute before attaching the fins. The fin slots and the flat body tube make attaching these fins a breeze. I do wish the fin tabs extended to the motor tube but that is easy enough to fix on your own if you like.
 

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jqavins

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That is an idea that crossed my mind but I passed on it as I don't know if New Way makes couplers. The idea of making my own out of Basswood did cross my mind. If a coupler is readily available that would be the easiest solution. Then I wouldn't be cutting 1/2 moon shapes out of ply wood.
I was thinking of making the square coupler from heavy paper, i.e. cardstock, poster board, or some such. I'm certainly not trying to talk you into anything if it's not the way you want to go (as if I could).
 

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Sorry for the delay in updates. I had the opportunity to head out and get two solid days of flight time in this weekend and had to inspect everything that flew and do a couple small repairs before putting them back in the ready to fly pile.

I've made a bit of progress on this Excoct with getting Fillets added to the forward fins. This was done with Tite Bond Thick and Quick and let dry over night. Next the rear fins were attached. Like the forward fins, a small section of the outer layer was cut away for better adhesion. From there the fins were attached with Tight Bond 2 and left to dry. With the outer layer removed this stuff soaks in nicely and is almost solid in 15 mins.

Once dry a single fillet with Thick and Quick was all it needed.

Since the outer later of paper isn't bonded all that well to the tube, I'm experimenting with soaking the entire outer tube with thin CA to get it to stay put and seal it. The first test was a disaster. Without doing anything to the tube, I simply placed a couple of drops on the outside of the tube and spread it around with the applicator tip. This simply sat on top and didn't soak in at all except at the seams.

For my second attempt I sanded the outer tube with 400 grit then applied the CA. This time it soaked into the cardboard and gave me a decent finish. I left the tube to dry over night and was happy to see that it looks to have completely soaked in and left a nice hard finish that can be sanded.

The final pick below you can see the discoloration in the forward part of the tube where I had done this. It did leave a bit of a lumpy finish in spots but some 400 grit made it nice and smooth.

Next on the list is figuring out what I'm going to do about the soft balsa fins. I was hoping they would stiffen up a bit once attached and fillets we done but they are still very flexible. I'm not sure if I'm going with CA or sticking to thinned wood glue. Guess we'll see in a couple of days.
 

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jqavins

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Next on the list is figuring out what I'm going to do about the soft balsa fins. I was hoping they would stiffen up a bit once attached and fillets we done but they are still very flexible. I'm not sure if I'm going with CA or sticking to thinned wood glue. Guess we'll see in a couple of days.
Glued paper?
 

Back_at_it

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Any kind of paper, guaranteed to solve the problem.
I'm leaning more toward papering but I really hate doing it. Hate it even more doing it after the rocket is assembled. I think I'll try the CA method on one and see if that is to my liking. If not I can always paper over it.
 

neil_w

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I admit that for all the fins I have papered, I have never tried to do it after the rocket is assembled. :)
 

rklapp

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I suggest thin CA. Let it soak in then sand.

saw this recently.

 

Back_at_it

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I admit that for all the fins I have papered, I have never tried to do it after the rocket is assembled. :)
I've done on a Baby Bertha that broke a fin due to a soft ejection. The fins were papered during the initial build so the repair involved fixing the fin and repapering. While I admit that fin is really strong today, it was a pain in the butt to do.
 

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So I soaked one of the forward fins in thin CA last night and checked it this morning. The fin is rock solid. This balsa is soft enough that is takes the CA really well. Going to do two coats of CA on the fins and move on.
 

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Been a few days but I'm making progress on this one. I managed to start a Maverick restoration project in the middle of this build while I was waiting on things to dry.. What was I thinking?

Finished up on coating the fins with thin CA. I'm happy to say that the fins are now rock solid. This balsa really soaked up the CA better than anything I've seen before.

Next I started fitting the nose cone. The nose cone doesn't come with that nice curve up to the tip. It's really three flat surfaces at increasing angles to the point. A fair bit of sanding with 100 grit got me the desired shape. With the success on the fins I decided on thin CA to seal the nose cone as well. I'm happy to say that the CA worked just as well here. Next I drilled a 1/2" diameter hole into the base of the nose cone about 3/4" deep to insert a hard wood dowel to use as an anchor point for the screw eye. I've had screw eyes pull out of balsa in the past and learned my lesson. This was glued in place with TB2 and left to dry over night.

From there I sprayed two good coats of SEM high build primer on the entire rocket and let it cure overnight. The next morning I did some sanding to reveal a couple of low spots here and there that got a quick coat of thin filler and sanded smooth.

And that brings us to where we are today. In the pics below you can see the primer with a bit of filler in places. I have a bit more sanding to do on the nose cone then it's off for a last coat of primer before heading to paint.
 

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jqavins

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Incidentally, I really like in the kit design that one set of fins is on the faces of the tube and the other is on the corners.
 

neil_w

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Well, to be fair, it wouldn't be very Exocet-like if the fins were all in-line with each other... ;)

It's funky how the tube is slotted on the corners for the rear fins. Really, almost everything about the Newway kits is interesting. I can't stress enough how much I admire Rick's creativity in putting this product line together.

BTW it would bring me inconceivable amounts of relief if the spelling of "Exocet" were fixed in the thread title.
 
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jqavins

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Y'know, the connection from "Excoct" to Exocet never even occurred to me. And I'm no missile buff, so I did not recognize it.
 

Back_at_it

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BTW it would bring me inconceivable amounts of relief if the spelling of "Exocet" were fixed in the thread title.
Have i really been spelling it wrong this whole time... Sorry about that guys.

Looks like this would need to be a moderator fix as I don't seem to be able to fix the title. If someone knows how, I'm all ears.
 

heada

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Have i really been spelling it wrong this whole time... Sorry about that guys.

Looks like this would need to be a moderator fix as I don't seem to be able to fix the title. If someone knows how, I'm all ears.
Report one of your own posts and in the message ask a mod to change it.
 
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o1d_dude

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Have i really been spelling it wrong this whole time... Sorry about that guys.

Looks like this would need to be a moderator fix as I don't seem to be able to fix the title. If someone knows how, I'm all ears.
Most of us knew what you meant.

It’s all good.
 

jqavins

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I'm the dummy who didn't, and it's still all good. ("Excoct? That's a weird name. I but the LCO is going to butcher it.")
 

Back_at_it

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Sorry for the delay guys. I finally got a chance to go on vacation and jumped on it for two weeks.

Now that I’m back I’m working on projects. the Exocet got its final sanding with 400 grit before applying the first color. Used Krylon cherry red for the upper section. Going to let it sit a few days before masking and shooting the black on the lower section. Weather here in Chicago is getting worse so I’m not sure how many more paint days I’m going to get in this year.
 

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rklapp

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The round version works great on a C6-3. This is a clone I made of the Estes model.

 

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After a couple of days of drying time, I masked and shot the lower portion of the rocket with Krylon Black. One helpful hint. When painting rockets with downward swept fins that are high up on the body like this, It is sometimes hard to get good coverage from a spray can on the trailing edge of the upper fin. To avoid this I sprayed a small amount of the paint into a disposable cup and hand painted the trailing edges before spraying the rest of the body. If you are doing this with a product that has a recoat window, be sure that you are well within the recoat window when you spray.

Mine is dry to the touch but I'm going to give it a few days to cure before vinyl.

After the Baffle, CA on the fins, nose cone and tube and all of the Primer, filler and paint, this thing is getting heavy. Current weight is 4.7oz without the shock cord or parachute. Will probably come in at the 5.1 - 5.2oz range once done.

Should still get a decent flight on a C5-3 but I'm thinking this one should have been a 24mm. Oh well. Too late now.
 

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rklapp

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I probably got 400 to 500 ft on the C6-3. Without the 18mm motor, it weighs 2.64 oz.

Nice paint job...
 
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