Nervous about Level 1 Recovery

[qquake2k]

Well, I might finally make my Level 1 attempt next weekend. I'm going to use my Minie Magg and a Cesaroni H143SS. But I'm nervous about the recovery. The Magg came with a 36" chute, but it weighs in at 58 oz with the recovery harness and Nomex blanket. I'm assuming it needs a bigger chute. I have a 45", but does it need a 50"? The harness is 3 ft of 9/16 tubular Kevlar and 15 ft of 9/16 tubular nylon. Too long? Too short?

 

[Pantherjon]

Sounds like a nice motor choice. The CTI Smokey Sam propellant puts out a nice smoke trail! I think your recovery harness should be okay at 6X the lenght of the rocket..I think the 45" chute will work..

Good luck, and don't forget to breath!

 

[qquake2k]

Sounds like a nice motor choice. The CTI Smokey Sam propellant puts out a nice smoke trail! I think your recovery harness should be okay at 6X the lenght of the rocket..I think the 45" chute will work..

Good luck, and don't forget to breath!

Yeah, I chose the Smoky Sam because I love smoky motors. I'm not so worried about breathing, as I am about forgetting to turn the camera on! I'm getting excited!

 

[troj]

Yeah, the 38" is a bit small, especially for a cert attempt.

The 45" should be a good choice; may be a bit large, so you'll get some drift, but it's better that than a broken fin.

-Kevin

 

[qquake2k]

Yeah, the 38" is a bit small, especially for a cert attempt.

The 45" should be a good choice; may be a bit large, so you'll get some drift, but it's better that than a broken fin.

-Kevin

I agree. And the launchsite I'm going to is flat and huge.

 

[UPscaler]

I agree, pop the 45 in there. I'm sure your cert will go flawlessly. One thing, just make sure that your prefect doesn't flip your rocket over when he is inspecting it like Vern did with my dad's L1. It made the black powder pour out the motor well, so we had to re load it.:bangpan:

 

[qquake2k]

I agree, pop the 45 in there. I'm sure your cert will go flawlessly. One thing, just make sure that your prefect doesn't flip your rocket over when he is inspecting it like Vern did with my dad's L1. It made the black powder pour out the motor well, so we had to re load it.:bangpan:

Wouldn't you just turn it right side up and shake it?

 

[karlbaum]

I agree, pop the 45 in there. I'm sure your cert will go flawlessly. One thing, just make sure that your prefect doesn't flip your rocket over when he is inspecting it like Vern did with my dad's L1. It made the black powder pour out the motor well, so we had to re load it.:bangpan:

I don't think he will have to be concerned with turning over a CTI motor. On the Aerotech motors I always cover the ejection well with masking tape and wrap the tape around the well. The ejection well is something I really dislike about RMS motors but I have learned to live with it.

 

[sylvie369]

I agree, pop the 45 in there. I'm sure your cert will go flawlessly. One thing, just make sure that your prefect doesn't flip your rocket over when he is inspecting it like Vern did with my dad's L1. It made the black powder pour out the motor well, so we had to re load it.:bangpan:

(Not to sound preachy, but...)

Hmm. This is something that should not happen. The RSO should be able to turn your rocket over, pull on the fins, shake it, lift it by the nose cone, and so on without anyone worrying about it being jarred out of flyable condition.

Assuming you're talking about the ejection charge well at the top of an AT motor, you should be pouring a little powder in there, tapping it on the side until that powder can be seen settling through the hole into the area above the delay grain, and then adding the rest of the powder you intend to use. Then you should be putting in some kind of filler - ideally Estes recovery wadding, or dog barf - on top of the BP to fill the rest of the well, and then tape it over thoroughly with masking tape, with at least one strip over the top and one around the sides to hold the piece(s) on top in place.

If you do that properly, the BP will not "pour out" of the well no matter how you hold the rocket. If you're having that problem just from having the rocket turned over, you're living on borrowed time as far as your recoveries go.

 

[o1d_dude]

I agree. And the launchsite I'm going to is flat and huge.

Sounds like you're headed down to October Skies. Yes?

 

[qquake2k]

Sounds like you're headed down to October Skies. Yes?

Yeah, my nephew and I are driving down on Saturday. Are you going?

 

[MarkII]

The CTI H143SS is a Pro38 reload, so I wouldn't worry about it. The ejection charge is already installed in the delay module and sealed with a paper disk. It won't shake out unless you remove the disk (and there's no reason to do that if you aren't using electronic deployment). The module is meant to be drilled to adjust the delay time, so it gets inverted anyway during normal prep. The delay charge stays in place during this process and functions fine afterward. Pro38s are terrific motors to use for Level 1 certification flights. You made a good choice.

 

[o1d_dude]

Yeah, my nephew and I are driving down on Saturday. Are you going?

I was thinking about it last night. It's "only" a three hour drive down Hwy 99.

With no rain in the forecast for at least a month, it doesn't look like the SARG launch at the end of the month will happen. Gotta make other plans, right?

 

[cjl]

I agree, pop the 45 in there. I'm sure your cert will go flawlessly. One thing, just make sure that your prefect doesn't flip your rocket over when he is inspecting it like Vern did with my dad's L1. It made the black powder pour out the motor well, so we had to re load it.:bangpan:

If this occurs, there is something wrong with the way you loaded the motor, not with the way the prefect is handling it. You should be able to turn the motor upside down and even shake it a bit without the powder coming out. On AT motors, this almost inevitably means that you should add a couple wraps of tape around the ejection well to hold the tape disk on, since the included tape disk doesn't stick very well.

Remember, after burnout, the rocket will have forces on it that are very similar to if you were to hold it upside down. If the powder can fall out from your prefect flipping it over, then it can also fall out during coast. This would be a very bad thing.


Oh, and I agree the included chute is on the small side. Go with the 45.

 

[qquake2k]

I was thinking about it last night. It's "only" a three hour drive down Hwy 99.

With no rain in the forecast for at least a month, it doesn't look like the SARG launch at the end of the month will happen. Gotta make other plans, right?

3-1/2 hours according to Google Maps, but what's a half hour among friends?

I'm with you, I don't think the October SARG launch is going to happen. But I've wanted to go to a TCC launch, anyway. This seems like a good time, since it's October Skies.

 

[Sgt Blowfly]

The newer AT reloads now come with a plastic cap that fits very snug over the ejection well. Much better than the paper disks; never trusted them-used masking tape to make sure the BP wouldnt go anywhere.

 

[o1d_dude]

3-1/2 hours according to Google Maps, but what's a half hour among friends?

I live on the south side of town.

Google says it's 3 hours and 7 minutes to the launch site coordinates posted on the TCC website. I've never been there but the directions are good.

Hopefully I will have my Double Pumper Jr ready for it's inaugural flight, too. I brought it to the SARG meeting last weekend...seems like everyone who showed up for the meeting brought a rocket.

Anyway, I don't want to miss your L1 flight so what time are you planning to arrive?

 

[qquake2k]

I live on the south side of town.

Google says it's 3 hours and 7 minutes to the launch site coordinates posted on the TCC website. I've never been there but the directions are good.

Hopefully I will have my Double Pumper Jr ready for it's inaugural flight, too. I brought it to the SARG meeting last weekend...seems like everyone who showed up for the meeting brought a rocket.

Anyway, I don't want to miss your L1 flight so what time are you planning to arrive?

I plan on leaving my house at 6am.

 

[qquake2k]

Hopefully I will have my Double Pumper Jr ready for it's inaugural flight, too.

I'm looking forward to seeing your Lupara fly. I'll be bringing my Double Pumper, and flying it on E9-6's.

 

[Sandy H.]

Good Luck!

Sandy.

 

[CF-105]

I've been flying my Mini magg with the stock chute, and it weighs in at 72 ounces without the motor. It's definitely over-built though, and could possibly survive tumble recovery.

That said, definitely go with a bigger chute. DO NOT use the flimsy eyelet on the Loc nose cone. It might hold out for the first flight, maybe even the second... but sooner or later it *will* fail.

Since you're using a Pro38 motor, I strongly recommend double- and triple-checking that you have the motor in the casing before you get to the pad. Heck, remove the motor during the pre-flight inspection, to verify the case is there. The #1 cause of motor failures I've seen with Pro38's has been missing casings - even among experienced flyers. Folks get distracted or anxious, and load the motor in the rocket without realizing they forgot something.

Don't rush the prep, double-check everything. Try to enjoy the flight! The Mini-Magg is a fun, tough bird.

 

[DAllen]

Worried about recovery?

When folks wander off to get their rockets after a rough cert flight landing we always say (much to the chagrin of the prefect) "Hey, don't forget the 5 minute epoxy!"



-Dave

 

[bradycros]

Worried about recovery?

When folks wander off to get their rockets after a rough cert flight landing we always say (much to the chagrin of the prefect) "Hey, don't forget the 5 minute epoxy!"



-Dave

Has the advice ever been succesfully used?

 

[cwbullet]

I used the same kit for my level 1. I used a 48 inch chute. It worked great. I only wish I had put in a 54 mm motor mount.

 

[DAllen]

Has the advice ever been succesfully used?

LOL...I doubt it.

 

[qquake2k]

Worried about recovery?

When folks wander off to get their rockets after a rough cert flight landing we always say (much to the chagrin of the prefect) "Hey, don't forget the 5 minute epoxy!"



-Dave

Too funny! LOL

 

[qquake2k]

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement, guys! I just re-weighed the Magg, with the 45" parachute, Nomex blanket, harness, and retention, and it weighed in at 62 oz. Jack Garabaldi from What's Up Hobbies will be there, I might buy a 50" chute from him.

I've been working on the last minute details this morning. I got the nose cone drilled and a Kevlar loop tied on it.

 

[qquake2k]

I also finally got the retention clips made. I made them from a strip of brass. I think they'll work fine. They fit both the Cesaroni Pro38 and the Aerotech 38mm Special. I think I'm as ready as I can be. If my cert flight is successful, I might buy an Aerotech motor from Jack for a second flight. I'm getting excited!

 

[sylvie369]

The nose cone loop looks good. That's how I'm doing mine these days. I don't know why they even bother with that ridiculous little plastic tab.

The brass strips on the motor retention look pretty thick, which is good. You will want to inspect them carefully after flight. I used to use thin brass strips for that purpose, until I found that they burn right through. I would have lost a motor casing once had I not used two strips: one was burned far past the edge of the casing. I've gone to using stainless steel strips instead on the few rockets I have that don't use washers or Aeropacks. Of course that means having better drill bits to drill the holes through the strips for the attachment screw: a cheap drill bit will just dull itself on stainless steel.

 

[o1d_dude]

I physically remove the wimpy little plastic nose cone loop to prevent myself from using it no matter what justification I come up with on the range.