NERRF 2006 Request

[bobbyb]

Hi All

The discussion for NERRF 2006 has begun. For those of you attending the CTRA invitational in Sept, there will be a NERRF 2006 meeting Sunday Morning [ tentative ] to discuss NERRF. You do not have to be present to be heard, drop me a note before the meeting and I'll table your comment.

We learned allot form NERRF 2005 and hope [ with your help ] to make NERRF 2006 even better.

WE have already looked at the range set up / staffing. YES this will improve, Get ready to sign up for range duty.... [ PLEASE ]

A NERRF outing for the rocket wives is in the discussion stages.. Woodbury commons [ factory outlet mall is close by.... If we fly at METRA ] Maybe even send them out for a Brotherhood winery tour with tasting, Maybe you'll get lucky when you get back to the hotel room. ]

WHERE... The original intent was for NERRF to move around... In looking at possible sites so far.. there are only 2 other places I have found so far.... One in upstate NY and one in North Eastern PA. NEPRA in PA and I was advised that the PYRO field could host. I have not seen the PYRO field.

I'd like to hear thoughts on locations, not just from a field standpoint but geographics also. Who drove from where...

Launch Format, METRA flew the launch with the INDY format... Other clubs may or may not be able to host this format so we might have to fly NAR or TRA launches if we move [ Or secure event insurance if the club / land owner are OK with it.

I'd like to hear comment on the INDY / TRA,NAR format.

WHEN, I have heard that fathers days weekend was GREAT and also that it was bad... Please comment on when ... Fathers day weekend or NOT.....

I'll be asking that Tom Rau put up a question poll on the NERRF website... Please let us know your thoughts....

Many have discussed an after launch barbecue, GREAT IDEA, I think a catered event is best, would you be willing to pay XX per head for a catered barbecue??? [ voluntary attendance ? ]

Please keep in mind this is CONVERSATION at this point, NOT going to happen with out lots of work an lots of input from YOU......

Regards....
Bobby B

 

[JDcluster]

The Pyro field is Way up state ( Finger Lakes Region) about an hour east of the NY Power site. How about one of the MDRA sites , if they are interested in it?




JD

 

[Ryan S.]

I drove from Marlborough (near Worcester) Mass. I personally think the METRA feild is an excellent location for the launch. It is fairly isolated, and MASSIVE, the recovery area is awesome, minus the onion feild, but I don't think this became a problem at NERRF. The sod is also, it is always a hassle to treck through mud, corn, or hay (or mud and hay) to get your rockets. It is so cool that I could walk barefoot to recover my rockets, the grass is golf course quality.

I think the feild size, coupled with the INDY launch, made NERRF great. Not only was the regular commercial crowd there, also the experimental people made a showing and could fly there own motors.

The NERRF launch was great, and in my opinion better than LDRS last year, the only thing I would change would be the impulse limit, because it is cool to see N and bigger motors fly, other than that, nothing.

 

[GlennW]

I thought father's day weekend was a great time to have it! And I love the idea of the bbq afterward on Saturday, that would be a lot of fun as long is you did it immediately following the launch so those who are not staying overnight still can have enough time to hit the road, you could fund it either by stepping up the launch fee on Sat. or just charging people who want to attend, maybe have a different colored bracelet to show who's paid for it.

As to the field it took me about an hour and 20 min to get to, not too bad and a very scenic drive, I would be in favor of having it at the METRA field again, especially since they can host it as an indy format. Hopefully next time though the field won't have just had all the soil turned, what a mess, and I still have not been able to get my son's shoes cleaned enough!

Looking forward to it!

Glenn

 

[jcsalem]

The METRA field was great and was an okay distance for me (about a 4 hour drive from the Boston suburbs where I live). I wouldn't mind a closer field but I'd hate to pick something significantly smaller.

I was great to have the vendors. I hope they made enough to come back next year.

Father's Day weekend wasn't the best choice of weekends for me though it's definitely better than Mother's Day!

-- Jim

 

[Chuck Rudy]

NERRF 05 was a great event!

The weekend was convenient for families, but tough on getting everyone in the same block of hotel rooms.

While it can move around I believe everyone was spoiled at the METRA field.

The field is a good location and easy to get to for those from Boston, Geneseo, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and most of New England.

MDRA would probably not be able to undertake the launch sizewise because their big field is an October to April field.

Because this is a launch containing rockets larger than many folks have ever seen it must be impressed on those attending TO PAY ATTENTION!! I have a video of a fairly large rocket coming down fast on a drogue and slapping the river, only when it slapped the water did a woman who was either asleep or doing a suntan make any movement from her chaise lounge. She was not only not paying attention, she may not have been awake, and it landed 100 feet away from her. Perhaps a sign such as "Experimental Rocket Launch--Pass this sign at your own risk"

Just a few items off the top of my head.

Chuck

 

[jrogers]

IMO the METRA field is a prime spot, only 4 hours for me ( As to 6 for NYPOWER )

Well was anyway

 

[Adam Selene]

I have to agree that 2 of the things that made NERRF such a great event were the GREAT field and the fact that we had EX mixed with commercial motors.

I drove 13 hours to be there, I guess another few wouldn't kill me. Although another thing that made it great for me was that it was an hour from where i grew up, so i got to visit some old friends.

Chuck

 

[DPatell]

Definately has to stay at the METRA field! Prime location. It was about 2 hours for me, and I'm 10 exits north of Albany. Worth it, no doubt in my mind. Just wish I could have made it on Friday, I had regents exams...

The launch was perfect. The atmosphere is the best of both worlds when EX and commercial are launching together.

 

[jraice]

What is this indy style? Self insured? That sounds awsome, both EX and commercial, you get to see some EX stuff (and fly it) but you also don't have the slow atmosphere of some EX launches, to bad I live in california...

 

[bobbyb]

Thanks to all who replied so far, I'd like to hear from the vendors who attended also....

INDY FORMAT.....

INDY is SIMPLE, the club bought GL insurance and we fly ALL motors side by side. EX, commercial, certified, decertified, etc....

CERTIFICATION rules still apply so YES you still have to be a current NAR or TRA member. Range rules also apply, NO ITS not the WILD WEST..... [ OR WILD EAST for that matter ] We apply the same distance rules to the pads. We also have RSO and pad managers, LCO etc... just like any other launch EXCEPT we fly all motors....

METRA is the second club in the area to adopt this format. MDRA was the first to my knowledge, we followed their lead.

I hope to have a NERRF 2006 kick off meeting on Suday Morning in Cobbleskill, NY [ CTRA Invitational ]

Bobby B

 

[gregzo]

Here is the commentary from the wife/family side:
Field - Very kid friendly - GREAT
Food Vendors - Hot Dog Vendor - Kids LOVED it!!
Food Vendors - Scouts - Love supporting groups like this - they did a great job!!
Porta Potties - Seemed like a good number - no big waits
Rocket Vendors - My wife enjoyed walking around looking at what was available
Dumpster availabe - GREAT thing to have
General Positive commentary about the polite, helpful, courteous rocketry community
Hours of the launch were good
Weather was great
Close proximity to hotels was nice
Great being able to hear communications over the family radio

Things to add or things to change:
There were long Launch Delays
Would be great to have the FM broadcast up in better shape
Left side of field - lots of announcement speakers
Right side had very few

New stuff suggested:
BBQ - GREAT IDEA!!
Wives Trip - My wife said she would not be interested

 

[gregzo]

Here is my commentary:
Indy Format - I think this should be almost be a prerequisite for NERRF. I personally do not fly EX. But I think having everything together - Flis Class/Commercial/EX all at one launch, all working together just to fly rockets is what made this such a great event.

BBQ - I think that would be a great idea - just make sure it is catered - that WILL make it a few dollars more per person - but there is no need to overburden those who are already doing all the work. Maybe another charitable group could put this on??

I like the idea of Polls on the NERRF site

I personally like Fathers day weekend - But any time is just fine

I drove from NH - 5 hours. That is fine for me. I would have no problem with MD/DE (8 hours), PA or NY. I think the fact that there was such a huge positive response to the first event is a tribute to the event and the goals set out by the organizers. Thank You all again!!!
I think any site chosen would have an equally large, positive response even if at a smaller field.
I think the METRA site is awesome. I would love to have the event there again. But I will welcome traveling to any site willing to host. I would almost recommend NOT having it at METRA next year. I would not want to burn out the extra efforts that METRA members and landowners had to do as it was at their site. The great METRA site certainly helped make the event special - but the people are what truly made this event so special. The rockets are second. The field comes in after these two. (But I would love to go back to METRA for 2007 after you guys get a year off!!!)

 

[BigNewtons]

Location: I definitely prefer MD/DE (also, IMHO, it offers a shorter commute to a greater number of people)

Date: Please, NOT Father's Day!

 

[Ryan S.]

but then would it be the "North East...."

My other comment would be to try to keep it June. I think there is a better chance of avoiding super hot and humid weather then. (just thinking of that because of the tempterature now)

 

[Adam Selene]

Hey Bobby, I know thst you have this data but i'm not sure anybody crunched it this way: what is the breakdown of participants by home state? that way we could get a clearer idea of where the "center" is. not that it really matters, but it would be fun to know. I'll be there next year no matter where it is as long as i can work it into my schedule.

 

[BigNewtons]

Originally posted by Ryan S.
but then would it be the "North East...."

I suppose that depends on where you live. In any case:

Originally posted by bobbyb
WHERE... The original intent was for NERRF to move around...

Okay, how about NEPRA? That has "North East" in it... if for some reason that's really important.

 

[bobbyb]

I'm answering a few posts in this reply.

1- MD/ DE Does count as being in the NE. At least in the geography books my kids have. I expect we would draw more fliers from the South but less from the MA, NH, VT area if it were held in MD/ DE. MD/DE has a field issue in that the "BIG " field is not available in June. [ I think thats why they switch to the sod farms until fall. ] They do have the open format....

2- With respect to the "center" of the people who attended, METRA would be the most central and NEPRA second. This is with respect to who attended. From a geography perspective and EZ access from major roadways METRA is the easiest.

3- I rec'd a comment last weekend at METRA RE the date, seems that a week later in June would have had more kids out of school and might have been a better choice.

4- The objective to move it around was to "share the pain" of hosting such an event among the participating clubs. The "pain: was minimal so METRA already offered to host again if another club / field does not come forward.

5- RE: volunteers, We did it low key the first time, I would have bet 10,000 bucks that with a launch of that size we would have NEVER run out of volunteers for range duty [ YET we DID ]
Both Doc and my self did emails and we asked during every fliers meeting, yet we came up light... Some fliers worked for hours while others did nothing..... We need more people to step up.... If everyone puts in an hour we would have the whole thing covered...

I'm still working on the poll questions.... stay tuned.....

Bobby B

 

[MET]

I liked the METRA field, but I also like the Geneseo field used for LDRS.

Father's Day weekend was fine.

My vote is to always have an INDY component.

I like the idea of a BBQ

Being able to camp on site would be great.

I think that it would be good to reconsider the layout of the field. As others have noted, spectators were pretty close to rockets coming down, and they weren't paying attention. I'd also separate the low power from the mid and high power so that launch times can be shortened.

Better instructions and coordination of volunteers. I think some people hesitated to volunteer because it wasn't clear enough what they had to do. Some that I helped get started were pretty intimidated by the process and felt unqualified (i.e., they regretted volunteering).

Better organization of setting up the launch pads to make sure that everything is ready to go and checked on time.

Consider having workshops as part of the event. Maybe put up a big tent and have short seminars on topics such as: 1) high power certification process, 2) how these indy guys mix propellant, 3) someone explaining their latest high power project, 4) innovative uses of electronics, etc.

 

[Adam Selene]

i like the idea of workshops but having a bunch of rocketeers under a tent where they can't see the sky while absorbed in learning something probably isn't a safe thing.

 

[flyr98]

I would put the workshops down the field some so the danger of not paying attention is less dangerous.

 

[Adam Selene]

rockets can come in ballistic anywhere on the field.
of course some sort of very loud alarm system activated from LCO would help solve that problem.

 

[MET]

I'd just post a lookout who would pay attention to the loudspeaker and watch the sky. I wouldn't think it any more dangerous than spectators reading books. It could also be done at the end of the day, after the launch is closed. Perhaps while the BBQ is warming up.

 

[flyr98]

Good point Also, these people that listen to IPods and other CD players are in great danger. Not only will they not be paying attention to the skys, they can't hear what the announcer is saying either

 

[jcsalem]

Father's Day is June 18, 2006
The last day of school for the public schools in Mass. is June 22nd. This includes 5 snow days.

Unless there is no snow next winter (ha ha!), that puts a Father's Day NERRF in the middle of studying for finals which rules out most of the high school kids I know from attending. Something to consider...

 

[MET]

I believe that Bobby is on vacation, but I look forward to his summarizing the discussion and giving us some action items. Personally, I see the following areas to address: 1) better organization of launches and the volunteers (I'm willing to help here), 2) BBQs or some other similar after-launch event (i.e., beyond meeting at a random bar), and 3) the potential for some discussion sessions or forums. I would recommend: 1) a separate thread on launch organization and the use of volunteers, 2) having an evening BBQ each night of the launch, expcept perhaps the last night, and 3) starting to round up potential forum speakers (knowing that we can work out the saftey logistics). As for forum speakers, I'd vote for Ryan explaining how to mix propellant and Robert DeHate explaining ANYTHING about his last project. I'm sure there are more out there, but I'd gladly listen to both those guys.

 

[bobbyb]

MET

Thank for your comment and suggestions...

I'm kinda back [ but not ] from vacation, I'm taking one more day to try and play with my RC helicopters...

Thank you for your offer of help RE: volunteers and training, accepted... We definitely need the help. I know we will do better this year, NERRF 2005 was our first event and we learned , we know more of what to expect and many have recognized the areas that need improvement and have [ like you] offered assistance. with this much experience and HELP we can only do better. Thanks for stepping up....

If its held at METRA I have the following in mind.

Catered barbecue on Saturday afternoon. a few dollars per person, voluntary attendance, with the catering service doing the clean up. We cannot cook on the METRA field individually.

Also have a day trip for the rocket widows to woodbury commons outlet stores.

I'd like to offer a tent up to the amatuer radio guys to demo amatuer radio and how it interfaces with rocketry. I'm a HAM K3RJB and love the 2 way radios...

fire dept. onsite for 3 days... This does not guarantee sparkies biut I'm looking into a sprinkler system that might...

We NEED a CONTEST.... for NERRF no matter where its held...
any contest people out there ?????

I'd like to see the following onsite demos....15-30 min each 2x pr day.

1- RMS motor assembly 101

2- Dual deployment preparation

3- How much BP is needed for a successful deployment, inquiring minds want to know.. What's a shear pin?

4- Fin fillets, you can do it... IPA, 5 min epoxy and a perfect fillet.. you can do it...

5- Motor retention, " when masking tape just won't do anymore"

6- CG/CP Here we go LOOP DEE LOOP Or why rocket fly...

Hangar 11, Inc will supply the tent and materials for the demos... Any takers on performing the demos...

Bobby B
METRA PRES
NAR 79350 L2

 

[Ryan S.]

I could probably help out with any of 2 through 4.

A Contest? I know MDRA started this, so can we possibly do a spinoff of their Mach Madness competition? Winner for each day and overall winner.

 

[flyr98]

Bob,
I have a great way to do # 4. I could also do # 5 but I would need more details.

-Steve

P.S. What if we had a contest where one would have to devise a plan to get maximum altitude from a Estes Alpha.

 

[bobbyb]

Steve

YOU make up the details... If you volunteer.. you get to detail it, run it. YES you get to have helpers but its your baby....

NERRF is about ROCKETRY... and people getting together and making it happen.....


MACH madnes Comp is fine.... I love the flights at MDRA....
I think John Ritz is still "TOP GUN" I was there for that flight...
VERY VERY FAST..... I get to see many FAST flights... that one should have been called WHIP lash....

I love the idea of an Estes contest... kids RULE in my book they are the future of rocketry...

A HPR and a LPR contest would be great....

Bobby B