Hey, I didn't say those things are easy, I only said that they (the hard parts) are all you need. Sure, the back end is the easy part, and you've got a really good back end there (my mini fin suggestion not to the contrary).
Makes sense.
Neil_W's half-baked design thread
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Well thanks, I do try to keep in shape.
What if you take the pod design scale it up to like 2 tube sizes bigger and make it the nose cone? Not sure how you put the point into the middle of the body tube and connect it well enough to launch but that might take care of the fiddly bits up front.
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Maybe dumb, but why not….
Both looks change and something like the Apogee SloMo for that great slow lift off.
Add a set off 10 or 16 short straight radiator fins a bit forward of the mains.
Cant the mains 1-2 degrees to get it to rotate.
Cant the pods tail end out to add even more drag.
Do something to the nose cone to change it from a regular cone to a three part claw.
Both looks change and something like the Apogee SloMo for that great slow lift off.
Add a set off 10 or 16 short straight radiator fins a bit forward of the mains.
Cant the mains 1-2 degrees to get it to rotate.
Cant the pods tail end out to add even more drag.
Do something to the nose cone to change it from a regular cone to a three part claw.
I'm noodling around with a bilateral symmetry version of Enigma. Lengthened two of the pods and turned them into anhedral wings. There's a lot more to do here, and the decals still need an overhaul, but for now I just wanted to see if I liked this approach. My gut reaction is that I do.
It's very hard to photograph this thing due to the way OR does lighting.
TOP
SIDE
REAR
It's very hard to photograph this thing due to the way OR does lighting.
TOP
SIDE
REAR
How about a square-on rear view?
Thanks, that helps.
I like it. I don't know if I like it any better than it was before, but it's certainly no worse. There's enough going on already that this doesn't seem to me to change much relative to the whole.
I like it. I don't know if I like it any better than it was before, but it's certainly no worse. There's enough going on already that this doesn't seem to me to change much relative to the whole.
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absolutely Maleficent!
Slight change to the nose cone design for improved manufacturability. I think it looks roughly equivalent. This way will be much easier to paint as well. I suspect that strength-wise they'll also be about equal, which is to say "iffy".
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I am absolutely determined to include a nose cone like this in the build. Pure practicality issues thwarted my open-air motor mount on Starship Avalon, I will not be denied this time.
Old:
New:
I am absolutely determined to include a nose cone like this in the build. Pure practicality issues thwarted my open-air motor mount on Starship Avalon, I will not be denied this time.
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I think, depending on what that improved manufacturing method is, it may bell be more durable (rather than "about equal").
Very cool, and very unique. I like it.
One thought related to manufacturability, if the lines of the nose cone line up (like this):
Small errors in the relative alignment between each part will be noticeable. But if they are something like this:
It may be harder for the eye to discern a small misalignment. However, I do like the look of the top image better (lined up), so if it can be made that way, it seems better to me.
Either way, it'll look cool.
If it were me, I'd be tempted to make it this way, it actually results in your "Old" look.
1) start with balsa nose cone
2) Glue (probaby epoxy) one pair of opposing triangular pieces. (call them left and right)
3) Cut out the central part of the nose cone that I want to be gone (razor saw top and bottom, then cut and carve the rest)
4) Glue to rest of the triangular pieces in place.
I'm lined up like the first diagram; the entire airframe is a continuous cone, minus all the cutouts.
Presuming I did have a wood cone to start with, after two pieces were in the whole assembly would still be very delicate, unable (in my estimation) to withstand the stress of sawing unless I built a fancy custom jig (how?) to hold everything very solidly until I finished. The mount points for the fins would need to be slotted to have any chance of being strong enough to hold together, and also to ensure proper alignment. It might be possible but I don't think I could do it with my available tools.
To me this is a 3D print job all the way. I'm not a fan of fully 3D-printed rockets but am not shy about employing 3D printing in specific situations that call for it. A 3D-printed cone would also be much easier to replace if and when it breaks on landing.
I foresee three pieces: the tip, the middle assembly, and the base. Conceivably I could still use one of the Estes cones for the tip and base. I don't know how strong the printed middle assembly would be. Probably not bad.
I might even try to print/build the nose before I'm ready to do the rest of the build, because it's completely independent, and I still have a lot of issues to plan out and resolve in everything behind the nose.
The dimensions were originally chosen to match the Estes PNC-55BB (that was before it acquired a gap); there are no matching balsa cones available, and if there were they'd be upwards of $10. I would have very little confidence that the above steps could be executed successfully, and would not be eager to burn a $10 cone.
Presuming I did have a wood cone to start with, after two pieces were in the whole assembly would still be very delicate, unable (in my estimation) to withstand the stress of sawing unless I built a fancy custom jig (how?) to hold everything very solidly until I finished. The mount points for the fins would need to be slotted to have any chance of being strong enough to hold together, and also to ensure proper alignment. It might be possible but I don't think I could do it with my available tools.
To me this is a 3D print job all the way. I'm not a fan of fully 3D-printed rockets but am not shy about employing 3D printing in specific situations that call for it. A 3D-printed cone would also be much easier to replace if and when it breaks on landing.
I foresee three pieces: the tip, the middle assembly, and the base. Conceivably I could still use one of the Estes cones for the tip and base. I don't know how strong the printed middle assembly would be. Probably not bad.
I might even try to print/build the nose before I'm ready to do the rest of the build, because it's completely independent, and I still have a lot of issues to plan out and resolve in everything behind the nose.
Using rounded finlets is potentially an interesting alternative (Joe suggested something like this a long time ago).
3D printing makes a lot of sense. I was imagining how one night do this with cardstock, centering rings, and central tubes, since you do a lot that way. I'm sure it could be done, and I'm pretty sure it could be done nice and strong, but the 3D print route is probably better. Those parts will be heavier than you could do with card stock, but it's weight at the right end, so no biggie.
I kept thinking about the challenge of building that nose cone, and out of curiosity I gave it a quick try. I also don't have a triangular balsa nose cone, so put a piece of poplar on the lathe as a test.
First I turned a cone and used the lathe indexing to mark 6 lines:
Then I turned down the middle part to just a post and glued on two pieces of plywood:
When the epoxy cures, I'll see if I can finish the cone tip and cut out the center post. The plywood is pretty rough, just a quick test to see if this would even work.
First I turned a cone and used the lathe indexing to mark 6 lines:
Then I turned down the middle part to just a post and glued on two pieces of plywood:
When the epoxy cures, I'll see if I can finish the cone tip and cut out the center post. The plywood is pretty rough, just a quick test to see if this would even work.
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This may be a case where less is more.
I’m guessing the plan is for 5 nose cone struts, to match the 5 tube fins. But three (or even two) will allow more light to pass through the center.
I’m guessing the plan is for 5 nose cone struts, to match the 5 tube fins. But three (or even two) will allow more light to pass through the center.
Then once the epoxy is cured, two ribs should hold the pieces aligned if it's handled with care while the other ribs are installed.
Beautifully done, sir!
I'd vote for matching the number of ribs in the nose to the number of fins below (if this were a democracy).
On the other hand, a three against five pattern might not look bad overall.
I know your main finds are not all the same length, and you've played with their angles, so this just a general idea.
I know your main finds are not all the same length, and you've played with their angles, so this just a general idea.
The angles are all equal in back, just the lengths have been fiddled. A three-pronged nose would *look* fine; it would be very airy. I would probably reshape the fins to be a bit more chunky for added strength. Or I could put a clear acrylic rod through the center to support everything. Would be visible but not that bad... maybe.
At this point I have probably exceeded the allotted space for this design in this thread. It's a complicated one and there are so many technical and aesthetic issues occupying my thoughts.
I suspect you're exaggerating the strength concern. If you think it's necessary, you could add small tabs to the ends of the ribs that fit into 1) slots in the cut faces per Marten's plan, B) slots in the gap-ward CRs in what I imagined you would do, or III) slots printed in the two 3D printed parts, but I suspect even that's overkill and that surface glue plus fillets just like regular fins would be plenty strong enough. What I would do for strength is make those ribs out of plywood. Of course, if you go that way and it breaks, I'll deny I wrote this.
Well, it's a proof-of-concept. It feels reasonably strong, and with all fins (canards?) in place, it would be quite stiff. This is just the el-cheapo 3-ply 1/8" plywood, some decent 5-ply would do much better.
Yeah, the technical issues are fun to ponder.
Yeah, the technical issues are fun to ponder.
Very nice! If I had a lathe I might consider that approach.
I want to design a long skinny rocket, because I've never done one of those before. But just getting started on that, and nothing to share yet. So, in the meantime, here's some recycled content.
This is an unbuilt design by @EXPjawa, who is regrettably no longer active on the forum (and I can't find his account, so I don't recall how his user name was capitalized). I have always really liked it and have wanted to build it in some form or another:
What has kept me back from building it is that I have absolutely no ideas for a paint scheme. Is this a pure sport rocket? Fantasy scale? To me it definitely suggests sci-fi of some sort, but what sort of ship is this?
I'd probably do best here with a sport paint scheme, just make some pretty colors and be done with it. But I'm a little stuck with this one. If anyone has any thoughts, I'm open.
I'd like to put a 24mm motor in the middle and two 13mm mounts in the pods, just for funsies.
This is an unbuilt design by @EXPjawa, who is regrettably no longer active on the forum (and I can't find his account, so I don't recall how his user name was capitalized). I have always really liked it and have wanted to build it in some form or another:
What has kept me back from building it is that I have absolutely no ideas for a paint scheme. Is this a pure sport rocket? Fantasy scale? To me it definitely suggests sci-fi of some sort, but what sort of ship is this?
I'd probably do best here with a sport paint scheme, just make some pretty colors and be done with it. But I'm a little stuck with this one. If anyone has any thoughts, I'm open.
I'd like to put a 24mm motor in the middle and two 13mm mounts in the pods, just for funsies.
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This was done with a John Pursley skin (he passed away far too young). I think it might work for the above, maybe with some pods.
I've been wanting to do a long skinny rocket, here's my initial noodling. There might be a good idea in here. Or not. Might look OK with a good paint job. Should I keep working on this one?.
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