With the overwhelmingly positive response to my poll, here it is. Enjoy. Ask questions. Make fun of me.
View attachment John Sigmon - NAR Level 3 Certification Package.pdf
View attachment John Sigmon - NAR Level 3 Certification Package.pdf
Make fun of me.
Great package! Looks like everything is in order for a good cert. flight. Only thing I would change is the rail buttons. Way overkill.
Hey, you told me to do it.....
Good luck on your flight, and say hi to Robert and Gloria when they get back home. We really enjoyed their visit.
I've got no shame.Let's see if I can do a PDF attachment. Open to all to laugh at :>
View attachment 284386
Great package! Looks like everything is in order for a good cert. flight. Only thing I would change is the rail buttons. Way overkill.
I agree, for the sake of the buttons themselves. However given the motors and rockets I like to fly I keep finding the only way I get a heavy and sturdy enough rail at a club launch is by moving to the 1515 rails!
Yeah, but you don't need 1515 buttons to fly on 1515 rails. Just a little secret CJ told me about. Great picture though. Wouldn't mind hearing the story behind it.
I thought that for level 3 your were required to have separate switches for each of the deployment charges, not just power switches for the altimeters.
No longer a requirement due to it being stupid.
Yeah, but you don't need 1515 buttons to fly on 1515 rails. Just a little secret CJ told me about. Great picture though. Wouldn't mind hearing the story behind it.
No kidding! Thanks for sharing, I had no idea and assumed the rocket would fall right off.
That picture, not too much story simply my relatively lightweight L3 bird on a K780. It kicked much harder than those little pads wanted to put up with. Lost altitude and went a little far away, but it was still a good flight and recovered well. L3 success was next up!
I ranted about this to no end many years ago on the TRA list-serv. The hierarchy there changed it before the NAR did. I was told discussions between the members of the two boards got the NAR to drop it too.
The so-called "safety" argument was completely bogus.
Kurt Savegnago
I have been a TRA TAP for well over 15+ years and there has never been a multi circuit safety switch requirement. The only requirement, is that the electronics used in the certification rocket, must be able to be safely powered down. There has never been a TRA requirement to safety charges by shunt circuitry of any kind...:no: On my own L-3 certification flight, I used twist and tape, although I now almost always use a simple switch of some kind. I prefer screw type switches...
A lot of the problem is that there is one set of requirements, whether you are scratch-building or kit-building, whether it's a four-inch airframe or a ten-inch, whether it's five feet long or twenty feet long. I can see the NAR being really nervous about someone certifying on a huge, scratch-built, ten-inch by 20-foot monster, with 36 gram deployment charges. If your deployment set-up was 36 and 40 for the drogue, and 24 and 28 for the main, then you essentially have a 128-gram BP bomb on the pad. Entirely different from my rocket that had a grand total of 5.2 grams in it.
TRA is trying to stop TAPs from adding extra requirements over what the rules state. Field enforcement is something we fought the ATF over, we should not do it to ourselves.
Originally the electronic required were a single unit, and it could be the backup. A local guy did his L3 using motor ejection and a timer backup. Motor did the job. The first Aerotech 98s had delays.
Sorry Fred, I know candidates who's TAPS/L3CC folks required the extra switches/shunts in the olden days of greater than 10 years ago. NAR was more notorious than TRA. Look on the cover of issue 52 of Extreme Rocketry and you can see the 6 plug switches/shunts that the TAPS required for the candidates attempt. Twist and tape and you are really showing how far back you certified. Many frown on that now and might not get away with it today but I was told twist and tape was common/accepted in the past as was single altimeter deployment for L3 certifying. Many L3 fliers once certified, do twist and tape to this day without issue.
Kurt Savegnago
Like I said, "there has never been a multi circuit safety switch requirement for TRA L3 certification projects, of any kind"... Beings I am not and have not been a NAR L3CC, I will not address what may or may not have been NAR's L3 certification process, as it has been and continues to be different than TRA... As for as twist and tape and depending on the presented project, I would not automatically rule out an individual using twist and tape, although I probably would discourage twist and tape in favor of a quality switch... :2: Like Mark C. indicated, TRA is attempting to address inconsistencies in the TAP basic requirement process, between different TAP members.
My only point Fred is there were gross disparities in the past. Some TAPS back then seemed to have adopted NAR's specification for switches/shunts for no good reason. Again, that's nothing to worry about now and is only of historical interest.
I will relate of another flier, again 10 years in the past, where the TAP required him to bring the rocket for inspection DURING construction. Poor guy had to make seven long distance trips to the TAPs house to
present the rocket for inspection during the different phases of assembly! I'm glad those days are in the past and there's more uniformity.
I will present one current beef though. I believe NAR requires "pre-build" approval of an L3 project before construction starts? If that's true, it's asinine. I know of individuals in isolated areas who send their paperwork to prospective TAPs for perusal, show up on the appointed day, have the rocket inspected and have a successful L3 certification flight.
My opinion of "pre-build" approval is stupid, especially if the candidate is using a collection of parts or a kit that has been successfully used for L3 level flights by others in the past.
If TRA is looking at TAP disparities, that's good but I don't think it's as "bad" now than what it was years ago. Kurt
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