Mercury Atlas

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cruzsergio

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I would like to build a scratch build mercury atlas in the near future:sigh:
i was wondering if i can get help finding the correct parts to it.
 
personally Dr.Zooch models are too small for me :lol:
I have in mind a clone of the Estes version. or similar
 
I just took the "easy" way out on this and got an Estes Merc Atlas on auction. All those crazy parts on it all I can say is good luck cloning that. Probably one of the best scale kits Estes ever did. I spent almost as much time cutting and fitting the mylar strips as I did building the thing but it's gorgeous and always attracts a crowd at the launches!

Glenn
 
I think your best bet is to get the Dr. Zooch Atlas, build it, and then upscale/clone it if you want a bigger one...

I've thought about upscaling the Zooch Atlas to a BT-80 tube... I think that's a nice size rocket, myself.

The Estes kit used a lot of plastic parts and a non-standard size tube. Unless you want to try to find one on fleabay, your best bet is an upscale or a scratchbuilt. If you can get an Estes Mercury Redstone, you could use the capsule and tower off that, if you can get a scale size Atlas tube for that... The Redstone was 70 inches in diameter and the Atlas was 120 inches. Seems like I remember the Estes Merc-Redstone was an odd-size tube as well, which might make matching up a common size tube hard to come by. Not that this makes it impossible, it just complicates things.

You can make your own tube to custom sizes out of lite-ply or you can get a larger commercially made tube and cut a slit out of the side of it and glue it back together, using the slit you cut out as a "backing strip" to butt-join the cut edges of the tube wall... I've made some custom tubes this way. I've seen the lite-ply tubes as well... hard to make them smaller than about BT-80 without splitting the wood, but they make BEAUTIFUL and EXTREMELY LIGHTWEIGHT larger tubes.

The thing with a scale rocket is, the larger it is, the greater the detail and fidelity of the detail has to be for it to look good... and the harder it is to make the detail look good... and the more detail it requires.

Later! OL JR :)
 
That would be a nice size of rocket but sherri's rockets are way way way off budget,
I was thinking in tube sizes a BT-60 for the capsule and BT-80 for the booster.
 
That would be a nice size of rocket but sherri's rockets are way way way off budget,
I was thinking in tube sizes a BT-60 for the capsule and BT-80 for the booster.

BT-55 w/ Semroc's BNC-58MA capsule along w/ Red Arrow's RAHBT21 (2.26 dia) would be close to 1:53 scale, using JRs 70/120 diameters above.
 
The Estes Atlas Mercury is 1/35 scale. The diameter of the center tube is a little bit less than 3 and 1/2 inches. I converted the model to fly with three 24 mm motors and used 4 clear plastic fins that slid into aft-end slots in the base of the model.
 
A BT-55 with a BT-70 could work ?
I would love to build an Estes version but their so expensive :cry:
 
How's this for size....?

View attachment 106016

No longer available... Sheri's Hot Rockets went defunct a couple years ago (IIRC) and was later bought out by Red Arrow Hobbies, but last time I was at his shop, he was telling me it was going to take a LOT of rework to re-release the SHR kits... the molds were terrible and lot of part sources weren't readily available and the prospects for replacements wasn't good.

Later! OL JR :)
 
No longer available... Sheri's Hot Rockets went defunct a couple years ago (IIRC) and was later bought out by Red Arrow Hobbies, but last time I was at his shop, he was telling me it was going to take a LOT of rework to re-release the SHR kits... the molds were terrible and lot of part sources weren't readily available and the prospects for replacements wasn't good.

Later! OL JR :)

Well, until they can pull it off...back engineer the kit.
Maybe even improve on it.
I have her Gemini Titan ...I could think of several additional things to do from a scratchbuild...now that I know what components were in the kit - inc. making it dual deploy and ditching the heavy body tube, ....(although the nice aluminum nozzles need to be machined to accept standard 29mm reload aft closures - can't help with that).
 
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A BT-55 with a BT-70 could work ?
I would love to build an Estes version but their so expensive :cry:

Well, at the BT-55 scale (70/1.325), big tube (120") would be 2.271" dia. A BT-70 is 2.217" dia. That Red Arrow RAHBT21 is 2.26" dia. But it might not be that noticable.
 
A BT-55 with a BT-70 could work ?
I would love to build an Estes version but their so expensive :cry:

Do you have the actual dimesions of the Mercury Atlas?? Got "Rockets of the World"?? (HIGHLY recommended!) If you don't, dimensioned drawings aren't too hard to find on the internet, for some stuff at least... NTRS (NASA Technical Resource Server) has a lot of NASA studies and reports available for download (and I've summarized more than a few of them in the scale section...) Rockets of the World is available from NARTS...

Just how detailed of a model are you shooting for?? Are you looking to make a very realistic close to scale as possible model, or are you looking for a general-shape and more-or-less correctly proportioned "semi-scale" rocket for flying fairly often?? If the latter, then you have a lot more options... If you can tolerate the looks of it, (proportions perhaps being a bit off) then you can make do with some standard size parts... but it all starts with doing a little math.

As I said, the Atlas was 120 inches (ten feet) in diameter... if you wanted to use the BT-80 tube, which is of course readily available (and a nice size IMHO) which is 2.6 inches in diameter, if we divide 120 by 2.6, we get 46.15, or roughly 1/46 scale. Divide it the other way around, and we get 2.6 divided by 120, or .02166, which is your scale conversion factor... multiply all the sizes/lengths/diameters (NOT angles!) by this number to get the size they'll be on the model... (basically this equates to a 2.16% model). The Mercury capsule was 74.5 inches in diameter (IIRC) and so multiplying that out, your capsule should be 1.614 inches in diameter... (rounded to the thousandth of an inch). Now, a BT-60 tube is 1.637 inches in diameter (outside) so that's only 0.023 inches off (23 thousandths of an inch, which is about the thickness of several sheets of paper... IOW, pretty darn close... (not close enough for internats, but if you're building an internats model, you should already know all this stuff... )

If you wanted to use a BT-70 tube, which is 2.21 inches, then that works out to 54.30 rounded, or 1/54 scale... and the conversion factor would be 0.0184, or about a 1.8% scale... the capsule (which is 74.5 inches in diameter, remember) would be 74.5 times 0.0184, which equals 1.371, rounded. Comparing that to the BT-60 size of 1.637, that's 0.266 inches smaller, or 266 thousandths of an inch, or a little over a quarter inch smaller than the BT-60 size... IOW, not a common size... if you use a capsule nosecone made for a BT-60, it's going to be pretty oversize and a little funny looking.

Now, I know Semroc offers some pre-made mercury capsule shaped nosecones... what sizes, I dunno exactly, but you can look it up on their website. You'll need the rest of the dimensions of the rocket, but you can find those yourself.

You got me curious, so I dug out my Estes Mercury Redstone and measured the capsule shoulder on it... it's for about a 500 mm tube (the battery was dead in the digital caliper so I had to just read it off the scale, but if we convert (254 mm per inch) that works out to a 1.968 tube or thereabouts... (you could probably find the exact size on Jim Z's site, but I'm not going to that much trouble for an example... this kit is the "plastic wonder" with stickers version that was out a few years ago, dunno if it's still available or not). If you used this capsule as your starting point, measuring the actual capsule ring diameter above the tube shoulder (might be able to get a 50 mm tube from Semroc or Quest for the capsule to slide into-- it's not a typical Estes size so you won't get it from parts from them...). The capsule base ring is just shy of 550 mm (call it 545 mm) dividing by 254 mm per inch, we get 2.146 inches... (the capsule will slide down completely inside a 2.21 inch diameter BT-70, so this is about right). This is 131% of a BT-60, which we know is a pretty good fit with a BT-80 size rocket body, so if we upscaled the 2.60 inch BT-80 to 131% of it's size, we'd know what size tube this would work well with... we come up with a 3.406 inch tube, roughly speaking (proportionately).

Let's figure it by the scale... the Estes Redstone capsule is 2.146 inches in diameter, dividing by the 74.5 inch actual capsule size we get 0.0288 conversion factor, or the inverse, 34.7, which is about 1/35 scale. Figuring for the 120 inch diameter Atlas, we get 120 times 0.0288, or 3.456 inch tube... pretty close to our rougher figures above. Now, I don't know of anybody who makes a 3.456 inch diameter tube, so if you go this route, you're on your own... you can downsize a BT-101, which is right at 4 inches in diameter, or you can make a homemade tube.

FWIW, if I were doing this project (and I've kinda had it in the back of my mind, to be honest, but have enough irons in the fire right now) I'd get a Dr. Zooch BT-60 size Mercury Redstone, and use the capsule and tower off it. Heck build the whole kit and maybe buy an extra capsule blank from Wes and you'll have a Redstone and an Atlas in the same scale. Since we already did the math and found that a BT-60 capsule would go pretty darn close to a BT-80 size Atlas main body, then that eliminates a lot of parts hunting... the Zooch capsule is already BT-60 size and has all the guts and parts to make the tower and stuff as well... and instructions! Plus the wraps are in there as well... which you might have to "redecorate" to your liking, depending on which Atlas flight or capsule you're trying to model, but that's not a big deal anyway. Basically the full-size BT-60 Zooch Merc Redstone is a "reinventing" of the classic 60's Estes BT-60 Merc Redstone, which required a lot of work to make the multi-piece built up fins... (yeah the tower is work too, but this isn't a turn key deal anyway unless you want to just spend the dough on the Estes Merc Atlas with its plastic tower...)

That'd be MY first choice for this project... plus basically you get 2 fer one when you're done, in the same scale... How cool is that??

Later and good luck with your project... :) OL JR :)
 
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Well, until they can pull it off...back engineer the kit.
Maybe even improve on it.
I have her Gemini Titan ...I could think of several additional things to do from a scratchbuild...now that I know what components were in the kit - inc. making it dual deploy and ditching the heavy body tube, ....(although the nice aluminum nozzles need to be machined to accept standard 29mm reload aft closures - can't help with that).

Yeah, those nozzles are one of the killers... they were awfully sweet looking, BUT, the source for them is GONE.

When I talked to Dave at RAH, he showed me the original moulds for the Gemini capsules... they were pretty bad... worn completely slick on one side... (which I've read a lot of folks were rather disappointed with the SHR kits, because they were getting inferior parts, like the forementioned Gemini capsules with no detail on one side... she'd used the molds SO long they were flat worn out, and wouldn't bother to make new ones...) Dave had a guy reworking the moulds, at MUCH higher fidelity and accuracy and MUCH greater detail... (even screws on the shingles of the capsule!) The master he had made for making moulds was absolutely flawless... just gorgeous... BUT, that was just the ONE KIT mould... and basically ALL the moulds he got when he bought out SHR were junk, from what he was saying, and it would take a LONG TIME to redo them all! (plus money).

Then we got to the nozzles. He told me that she was getting them from a machinist friend of her ex, who would crank them out by the dozen periodically for them at cost as a favor... SO, she was getting the beautiful turned aluminum nozzles for basically a few bucks per kit... Of course when Sheri and her old man split up, the friend quit making the nozzles for her, and thus there were no more... (probably a big reason Sheri was stiffing so many people on kits-- no parts to make the kits up to send them out). Dave had looked around at various machinists and gotten quotes to do and order of presumably a few dozen or so nozzles, and the quotes coming back were in the $40-80 a piece range... IOW, the two nozzles in the Gemini-Titan kit were going to cost a like a third to half the cost of the entire kit, which would mean a HUGE markup in price to be profitable... and he couldn't afford that, and the greater the cost, the more limited the sales... he was still looking (this has been about two years ago or so when I was up there) and I don't know how that ever turned out...

I don't know if the SHR kits are even available... last time I checked the Red Arrow Hobbies website there was no mention of them... maybe Dave just pushed the whole project onto the back burner semi-permanently... I dunno...

Later! OL JR :)
 
I made a scratch built Mercury Redstone from the Semroc's Mercury Capsule, so if i base my capsule on a BT-60 what size would the tank be ?
I was thinking a BT-101 ?
 
I made a scratch built Mercury Redstone from the Semroc's Mercury Capsule, so if i base my capsule on a BT-60 what size would the tank be ?
I was thinking a BT-101 ?

I just told you... I went through the calculations to show you how to get the conversion (scaling) factors you'll need depending on your choices...

If you use a BT-60 capsule (size to fit a BT-60) then the Atlas main body will be a BT-80.

Re-read my post above and it'll walk you through the process of how to scale things... Once you've got this stuff figured out, you can upscale/downscale ANYTHING, even calculate rough dimensions of rockets and stuff from photographs (so long as you know ONE dimension so you can establish a scaling factor to multiply everything else by). (And of course the quality and angle of the photograph, as well as it's size, determines the accuracy of the results...)

As I said, the Atlas was 120 inches (ten feet) in diameter... if you wanted to use the BT-80 tube, which is of course readily available (and a nice size IMHO) which is 2.6 inches in diameter, if we divide 120 by 2.6, we get 46.15, or roughly 1/46 scale. Divide it the other way around, and we get 2.6 divided by 120, or .02166, which is your scale conversion factor... multiply all the sizes/lengths/diameters (NOT angles!) by this number to get the size they'll be on the model... (basically this equates to a 2.16% model). The Mercury capsule was 74.5 inches in diameter (IIRC) and so multiplying that out, your capsule should be 1.614 inches in diameter... (rounded to the thousandth of an inch). Now, a BT-60 tube is 1.637 inches in diameter (outside) so that's only 0.023 inches off (23 thousandths of an inch, which is about the thickness of several sheets of paper... IOW, pretty darn close... (not close enough for internats, but if you're building an internats model, you should already know all this stuff... )

Later and good luck! OL JR :)
 
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I actually have a PDR Gemini Titan... been thinking of building it with FlameFins instead of glass:puke:
 
If you use a BT-60 capsule (size to fit a BT-60) then the Atlas main body will be a BT-80.
So i was right the first time, i attempted to make one with a BT-70 but i failed, So i made a Mercury with a Fictional booster then :lol:
DSCF4830.jpg
 
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Do you have the actual dimesions of the Mercury Atlas?? Got "Rockets of the World"?? (HIGHLY recommended!) If you don't, dimensioned drawings aren't too hard to find on the internet, for some stuff at least... NTRS (NASA Technical Resource Server) has a lot of NASA studies and reports available for download (and I've summarized more than a few of them in the scale section...) Rockets of the World is available from NARTS...


+1 Even if you don't use the scale data from this book it's still a good read. I read it almost every night for a month over and over. :) I am finding a lot of the available good data comes from this book anyway. I have downloaded pictures an files in the past for some rockets and I have found them to be from this book. So I felt obligated to purchase the book, plus on the recommendation from those here on TRF, and I recommend all that use the data that's from Pete's book should buy the book. We need to support him and make it worth his while to continue his good work. The amount of information is well worth the cost.




TA
 
So i was right the first time, i attempted to make one with a BT-70 but i failed, So i made a Mercury with a Fictional booster then :lol:
View attachment 106430

Actually, that's not bad...

I have a study I just got from a NASA website (and will hopefully be summarizing in the Scale section of the forum along with my other "NASA Study Summaries", complete with pics and descriptions/summary of the study) that showed the "Mercury-THOR"... and it looks VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL to the rocket you built!

Apparently, there was a time when they were considering launching the Mercury capsules atop a Thor booster for suborbital test flights... The Thor didn't have enough "oomph" to get the Mercury into orbit, BUT, it could have lofted it a LOT higher and farther than the Redstone (from what I gather from the cursory inspection I gave the report before I saved it). Ultimately, they decided to just go with the Redstone for suborbital flights and the Atlas for the orbital ones, and of course the Little Joe for the test flights of the escape tower.

Of course, the Mercury-Thor didn't have fins, but actually the fins you have on there are virtually identical to the fins on the BT-60 Dr. Zooch "Discoverer-Thor" (Thor Agena B) rocket kit he put out a few years ago, which is now sadly OOP (but you can get the parts from BMS.)

Kudos on a nice looking rocket that simulates a "what if" of space history!

Later and good luck with your project! OL JR :)
 
Several years ago I scratch built a BT-60 size Mercury-Atlas. Turned out fairly well and flys like a dream on C6-3's Used the clean fin unit from an old estes kit I think was called Beta Launch Vehicle or something like that. very nifty twist-lok unit. Tower is to scale brass & plastic music wire with basswood turned parts.

Lots of fun with this build.

139a4_Merc-Atlas_3pic pg (300dpi)_05-30-93.jpg
 
Apparently, there was a time when they were considering launching the Mercury capsules atop a Thor booster for suborbital test flights... The Thor didn't have enough "oomph" to get the Mercury into orbit, BUT, it could have lofted it a LOT higher and farther than the Redstone (from what I gather from the cursory inspection I gave the report before I saved it). Ultimately, they decided to just go with the Redstone for suborbital flights and the Atlas for the orbital ones, and of course the Little Joe for the test flights of the escape tower.

Of course, the Mercury-Thor didn't have fins, but actually the fins you have on there are virtually identical to the fins on the BT-60 Dr. Zooch "Discoverer-Thor" (Thor Agena B) rocket kit he put out a few years ago, which is now sadly OOP (but you can get the parts from BMS.)

Kudos on a nice looking rocket that simulates a "what if" of space history!

Honestly I didn't have any idea of that i guess I'll rename it to it's original name.
Thank you !
 
It's too bad we can't get the old Estes Merc any more, I bought this about fourteen years ago..

IMG_0732.jpg

[YOUTUBE]rcf-Yqvv7Bw[/YOUTUBE]
 
It's too bad we can't get the old Estes Merc any more, I bought this about fourteen years ago..

View attachment 108484

[YOUTUBE]rcf-Yqvv7Bw[/YOUTUBE]

The Estes Merc-Atlas was a nice kit, but it had some drawbacks as well, and as you said, it isn't available anymore...

You can still get an Atlas, though smaller-- the Dr.Zooch Mercury Atlas is a terrific build... did a build thread on it last February for the 50th Anniversary of John Glenn's flight... look for the "Dr. Zooch Mercury Atlas Friendship 7 50th Anniversary build" (or something to that effect). It's a nice kit, though smaller than the Estes one, admittedly.

Been toying off and on with the idea of "upscaling" it for a BT-80 tube, rather than the smaller BT-60 tube used in the kit... going up to a BT-101 (Estes Saturn V size) would be REALLY impressive... The old Estes M-A was based on a roughly 3 inch tube IIRC... not a common Estes size, and one they (sadly!) never offered from their parts department, as it would fit a nice niche... (1/100 shuttle for instance, at 3.31 inches in diameter for the ET).

Later! OL JR :)
 
Honestly I didn't have any idea of that i guess I'll rename it to it's original name.
Thank you !

Here ya go... :)

This is actually for a Mercury-JUPITER (Jupiter missile, which was adapted to become the Juno II rocket, which failed more than it succeeded). I KNOW I saw a Mercury-Thor in a study recently (or something) but I didn't have any pics pulled from it... I'll have to find them later on and post back here... For now, these are "close enough" LOL:)
mercury_jupiter.jpgmercury_jupiter4.jpgmercury-jupiter-sizings (2).jpg
Later! OL JR :)
 
I remember years ago I came across some plans for a Mercury-Atlas that used the Estes Merucry capsule from the Mercury-Redstone kit. I even started to build it, and had BMS turn that big adapter. It used a 3.4" diameter body tube, which was only available from AAA Model Aviation, which is now defunct. I stopped building it when Estes released their kit, and stored it away somewhere. Someone with some skill could probably roll their own 3.4" tube. I'll look for the plans and post them if you're interested.
 
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I wish somebody would make that tube diameter again! 3.429 would be a perfect 1/35th Atlas and would be very close to 3.422 to make a 1/45 Apollo Little Joe II. That is two very-hard-to-clone models due to lack of this size of tube.

Semroc?? BMS?? Red Arrow?? Totally Tubular??
 
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