Hi i was wondering if i could get everyones opinion on scratch building a LM, using the descent stage as the launch pad and housing the motor in the ascent stage. i'm fairly new to model rocketry so any ideas would be great. i would like to know if this is possible or if it is just a crazy idea i have come up with.
Lunar Module
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rosko_racer
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There are no crazy ideas unless it is illegal. The only crazy idea is the one that it is never tried. That sounds like a great project and it should be easy to do. You will burn the descent stage for sure. Also you may have to install a Launch rod onthe descent stage and add somekind of fins on the ascent stage... clear plastic fins? Good luck on your project!!! make sure you document with lots of pictures and post them here (we love pics!!!)
- Raul
ps: Welcome to TRF!!!
- Raul
ps: Welcome to TRF!!!
rosko_racer
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I do not know if rocket designing software can acomodate such a design. Some members that come to mind: Micromeister and Sandman, may give good tips since they have been in the hobby for many years. They have done some neat "crazy" ideas and are very resourceful individuals...
This reminds me of a project my cousins and I had "under development" back in late 70's:
Rocket and payload would launch...
payload would have separated upon ejection of recovery system with payload having its own parachute...
payload would deploy four spring loaded legs with a switch attached to one of the legs inside the payload...
upon landing the switch would ignite a mini-engine launching a smaller rocket... A LA Lunar Module!!!
GuyNoir
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I've seen a plastic model conversion attempt using this approach, but for the life of me can't remember if it worked or not.
Any NARAM 47 attendees from that Cincinnati nats who might be hanging around here remember this bird???
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Bunny,
I never saw it fly, but I beleive this is a picture (taken at NARAM 47) of the model you are describing.
jim
Chrisn
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Scroll down this page until you get to the 2 lunar lander paper models and you can download them print them out and make the model from there since you have all the dimensions you will need if you want to make something bigger or stronger than card/paper model
Chilly
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Yep, I know who built it, he lives on the other side of Columbus. He took the Revell (?) kit and used the descent stage as the launch pad. Not sure how he kept the ascent stage stable.
BTW, the same guy won the scale competition with a converted Estes Saturn V that flew with 3 stages and clustered (5 in the 1st, 5 in the 2nd, one in the 3rd).
My own Saturn V didn't fare so well at NARAM 47. It's the one that was modded to fly on a G35 with the engine bells. Great flight, right up until the mains in the booster didn't deploy. It's still sitting on my workbench, waiting for some new BT-101 tubing to fix the forward 6 inches...
BTW, the same guy won the scale competition with a converted Estes Saturn V that flew with 3 stages and clustered (5 in the 1st, 5 in the 2nd, one in the 3rd).
My own Saturn V didn't fare so well at NARAM 47. It's the one that was modded to fly on a G35 with the engine bells. Great flight, right up until the mains in the booster didn't deploy. It's still sitting on my workbench, waiting for some new BT-101 tubing to fix the forward 6 inches...
GuyNoir
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Nope. That's Bruce Markelwelski's Sport Scale LEM. The PMC I'm thinking of was a LOT smaller.
Chrisn
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Sorry I forgot to post the link https://jleslie48.com/gallery_models_real.html
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Originally posted by dwmzmm
Nice pic, Jim. Hey, is there an astronaut behind one of those
tri windows?!
Dang! even *I* didn't notice that, but yep, there sure is (see attachement)...
Bruce was something else, I'll tell you!
I've done PMC's in 1/48th, 1/72, 144th and 200ths scales. but they are all single staged using the decent stage to hold the motor.
In all 4 cases there simply isn't room for the motor and a recovery system in the ascent stage only unless the motor is allowed to extend about 3/4" of it's length outside the section.
If you were to used a section of motor dia tubing with the fins attached to it, you might be able to slot the decent stage in such a way the slots could act as launcher rails.
Go for It Andy, If nothing else it'll make a good build pictorial
In all 4 cases there simply isn't room for the motor and a recovery system in the ascent stage only unless the motor is allowed to extend about 3/4" of it's length outside the section.
If you were to used a section of motor dia tubing with the fins attached to it, you might be able to slot the decent stage in such a way the slots could act as launcher rails.
Go for It Andy, If nothing else it'll make a good build pictorial
Not sure if this pic from the 1/72nd scale model will help but may give you an idea of how much tube will need to extend form the accent stage for your conversion.
Hope this helps a little
Hope this helps a little
GuyNoir
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How the heck is that thing stabilized, John???
Sorry Bunny:
I may have mislead, That photo is of the 1/72 PMC before the accent and decent stages were joined. I was just trying to give Andy an idea of the length of tube he's have to work with IF he wanted to try to add fins to the lower tube area so the accent stage could fly from the decent stage as a launcher base.
All 4 of my PMC Lems are Drag plate stabalized. on the 1/72 and 1/48th they are located in the lander leg bracing. on the 144th and 200th scales a clear lexan Drag disc. is attached below the decent stage out to the legs.
All worked out prettly well except the 1/48th that needed a bit more lead under the cap. Got to about 20 feet and went unstable. needed another 12grams of #9 shot
Here's the construction page of the 1/72 scale LEM
I may have mislead, That photo is of the 1/72 PMC before the accent and decent stages were joined. I was just trying to give Andy an idea of the length of tube he's have to work with IF he wanted to try to add fins to the lower tube area so the accent stage could fly from the decent stage as a launcher base.
All 4 of my PMC Lems are Drag plate stabalized. on the 1/72 and 1/48th they are located in the lander leg bracing. on the 144th and 200th scales a clear lexan Drag disc. is attached below the decent stage out to the legs.
All worked out prettly well except the 1/48th that needed a bit more lead under the cap. Got to about 20 feet and went unstable. needed another 12grams of #9 shot
Here's the construction page of the 1/72 scale LEM
GuyNoir
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Just to be clear, you're putting clear plastic sheeting onto the pentagon shaped brace to the lander leg? That sorta turns it into a flying saucer approach to stability?
Is the recovery system housed in the tube? How big a chute can you stuff in there and still get out?
Originally posted by narprez
Just to be clear, you're putting clear plastic sheeting onto the pentagon shaped brace to the lander leg? That sorta turns it into a flying saucer approach to stability?
Exactly
Is the recovery system housed in the tube? How big a chute can you stuff in there and still get out?
1/48th has a BT-20 tube with a custom 15" Drycleaner bag chute, the 1/72" has a 14mm tube with a 12" standard Estes type Plastic chute. Both 144th and 200th scales use Teflon Streamers for recovery
DaveCombs
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I swear, Micro must have the world's only operational shrink ray. He could be building full size models and then shrinking them, but I think he shrinks HIMSELF and does the work on small models.
You, sir, are an evil genius.
And you make incredible rockets, too.
You, sir, are an evil genius.
And you make incredible rockets, too.
rosko_racer
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Is it my computer or is it TRF server??? I was just looking at this thread and everytime someone has a quote in their reply I cannot see the reply... it just does not show on the screen. everyones reply shows except the ones with quotes...
Check your setting Raul I'm getting all the quote lines and messages.
