L2 cert approach

[JohnCoker]

I'm curious to see what people did or plan to do for a HPR level 2 certification (J-L motors). The L2 cert can be seen as just a way to prove experience flying larger motors than L1 or it can be a prep for more complex flight profiles using electronics as well. Feel free to vote for what you did as well as what you would do if you had it to do again.

 

[Banzai88]

My L1 was a pop-and-drop on an estes Leviathan. I moved pretty quickly into electronic dual deploy and I had been successfully launching like that for years.

By the time I did my L2 cert flight, it was just a bigger motor, rocket was basically the same as the L1 rockets that I had been launching (4" cardboard and plywood). In hindsight, other than written test anxiety, there was no reason I wasn't an L2 years ago.

 

[Antares JS]

I did dual deploy for my level 2 back in 2006 when dual deploy was relatively new... I think my witness was shocked. However, I had flown the rocket on an I a couple of times before attempting the cert flight. My first attempt failed because I did not prepare QT bonding surfaces properly and some of my internal epoxy joints came loose. My second attempt a few months later succeeded.

 

[loopy]

I spent a few years in L1 before going for L2, learning as much as I could about different rockets and recovery techniques. I had a LOC/Precision Expediter that I decided to use for my L2, but didn't want to use single/motor deploy for that rocket on a J, as it would be around 4000' in the air. So, I learned DD techniques with a couple of other rockets that I could fly on L1 sized motors to get familiar with how it worked and how to build it reliably, then turned the transition in the Expediter into a altimeter bay. Flew it on an I218R to test it, and it worked perfectly. So, I got it ready and put a J500G into it for my cert flight.

 

[heada]

I did dual deploy in both my L1 and L2. L1 was on an I435 and L2 was on a J415. I mostly fly DD still. Cert as you fly is how I view it.

 

[waltr]

I choose full DD only because I have been doing DD for a few years and know how to properly setup DD for dependable deployment.
I did simple motor eject for L1 cert, planning L2 cert next year with full DD.

Basic recommendation is fly what you know and do not do anything new for a cert flight.

 

[Steve Shannon]

I answer motor deployment, but there’s nothing wrong with the other answers. If a person really wants to get certified, simpler is better, but whatever you do should be something you have experience doing, except for the impulse of the motor.

 

[dr wogz]

My L1 was motor eject, and full chute. 1200 feet or so.

My L2 was also motor eject, but I believe I had a JLCR at the time.. and to about 2K feet..

The periods between the cert flights is when yo are supposed to 'experiment' with electronics & DD..

 

[Rschub]

I did L1 this summer on a Loc Minnie-Magg. I am currently building a dual deploy with electronics stretched version to learn that part of the hobby, but when I get around to doing L2, I will probably just get a 7.5" Doorknob kit and do motor deployment. The field I fly at is kind of cramped, if I had access to a large safe site, I would probably use the Minnie-Magg for L2 as well.

 

[ep29030]

I did both certs before 2000. I used the same rocket for both L1 and L2 (PML Tethys). Electronics were just coming on the scene at that time. Were I doing it now, I would do dual deploy for L2 because you will be using electronics regularly in L2 and L3 rockets.

 

[bobbyg23]

I used a jlcr for my L1 and L2. Then I started playing with dd.

 

[Neutronium95]

I flew my L2 rocket in a dual deploy configuration several times on L1 motors before my L2 cert flight, which was successful.

Edit: My L1 was motor eject, it was also a Jr. L1, which meant that motor eject was my only option.

 

[tsmith1315]

Nothing wrong with using DD for a cert flight if you’re comfortable with it.

I’m not new to DD, so I plan to use an Eggtimer Proton for L2 cert next month.

IMHO, once you’re L1 certified, it’s a great time to start expanding your scope and learn such techniques, rather than racing to get L2 done quickly. There’s lots of fun stuff to do with L1 motors.

I’ve already test flown my L2 rocket on an H550 with the Proton at home to be sure there are no surprises with the rocket or the deployment system when I get to the club range.

 

[heada]

You can do DD on Estes kits with D motors or less. DD and HPR have traditionally been linked but you can do DD without needing HPR and you can do HPR without needing DD (until L3) Do whatcha enjoy

 

[Jay Dub 4009]

As many others have said already, I did full redundant electronic dual deploy for my L2 because after my L1 (which was electronic apogee for the main with motor back up) I flew prob 15 DD flights on L1 motors …so was basically my standard at that point.

 

[Kallahan11]

I think we should push for a more complicated build for level 2. The way it sits now there's no real difference in building a level 1 or level 2 rocket. The only new display of skills is the test, which I really think should be for level 1. I don't hold this opinion very strongly, but I do not think we should allow the same rocket to be used for level 1 and 2, the level 2 rocket should show some increase in build difficulty and DD fits that nicely. I think a shorter version of the level 3 cert doc should be required for level 2. No need for a tap/l3cc sign off. Just enough to show you've simmed it correctly, have a launch check list, ect to be verified before launch.

 

[NateB]

I used simple motor ejection for my L1, but I'm planning on dual deploy electronic ejection for L2. I'm still building the rocket, but I'll use the motor ejection for backup if I can time the delay right.

 

[EPflyer]

My L1 was with a stock Zephyr using motor deployment. I had already started to experiment with dual deploy in a BT60 based rocket using 24mm reloads. I also added an Eggtimer Apogee to my Zephyr and got experience with single event electronic deployment sometimes in conjunction with a JollyLogic Chute Release. By the time I did the L2, I had 15 dual deploy flights, mostly successful.
My L2 rocket was a Madcow Aerobee-Hi with full dual deploy and a Eggfinder GPS in the nosecone. I flew the rocket on an I motor to make sure everything worked. After a successful flight, I preped it for the L2 flight. I used an Aerotech J435w DMS motor. The flight reached 5289 feet and a max velocity of 1505 FPS. It was an exciting flight and successful.

I recommend that you certify using methods you have experience with and are comfortable using.

 

[OverTheTop]

I did dual-deploy on my Velociraptor flying a K550. This was my first use of dual-deploy, but as an electronic engineer I was comfortable with it.

As others have said, whatever you are comfortable with or want to challenge yourself with, within the rules, is ok.

 

[Neutronium95]

You can do DD on Estes kits with D motors or less. DD and HPR have traditionally been linked but you can do DD without needing HPR and you can do HPR without needing DD (until L3) Do whatcha enjoy

L3 requires electronic ejection, not dual deploy. If your cert flight is low enough, and the recovery area large enough, you can absolutely do a single deploy L3 cert flight. It would just require redundant altimeters to fire rhe charges.

 

[rocketace]

I knew for the motors I wanted to get into that I would need electronics, and I like the bit of complexity it adds. For my L2 I had a standard dual deployment configuration. The first-time using electronics ejection was the shake down flight for my L2 with an H motor. To this day I think that first electronics flight is still the flight that made me the most nervous.

 

[boatgeek]

L1 was pop at the top. L2 was motor eject with JLCR. The second attempt was successful after repairing a fin and turning the JLCR on. (Doh!)

Since the question wasn't just "what did you do" but also what should you do, I included a couple more altimeter options. These are mainly for the people who are cruising through cert levels, particularly as part of college projects. I don't really recommend that, but those people are out there, and maybe they'll read this thread. For those people, I would highly recommend using an altimeter deployment (either fully redundant dual deploy or single deploy with motor backup) so that they can start getting experience with flying altimeters and controlled deployment. Having the first couple of times you screw up the altimeter be redundant in some way and/or not on your big, expensive rocket are good things.

 

[dhbarr]

Deploy-and-a-half for both L1 & L2. Just motor eject and a chute release as that's been mostly what I've flown.

 

[GalantVR41062]

I flew small rockets with my dad years ago, nothing bigger then a C..

8 some years ago I picked up a Comanche 3 built and painted as a child dream but did not attempt to fly it for over a year. First flight staged properly but weather cocked never to be seen by me again.

Almost 6 years ago I truly became a BAR.
Picked up a box of rocket goodies at a garage sale, started designing and building low and mid power rockets.

10-27-2017 L1: Estes Argent. Wood glue, rocket poxy and CA. Aerotech H115 DM, motor eject and JLCR. Test flight on a Estes G40-7w at a park on my way up to the high power launch for the L1 attempt, complete success and achieved my L1.


8-11-2018 L2: Madcow super Dx3 4" with 38mm mmt. Full redundant dual deploy with motor backup. Test flight on a Loki H160 blue the morning of my L2 attempt. Then I passed the L2 test. I prepped the rocket again and attempted my L2 flight on a Loki J320 red motor. After a few initiators the rocket flew to a apogee of 4,000 feet and recovered for a successful L2.


After my L2 I have been growing, learning, building, failure and success. I would not change how I got to where I am today. The upper end of the L2 motor lineup is a lot different then the smaller Loki J320R motor I flew. I have sense built a 4" Madcow Frenzy Xl with a 54mm mmt and tailcone retainer. This has taken the place of my L2 rocket that is moth balled. I have flown this on a Aerotech J415w. I have a Aerotech K185 loaded for the next flight and a Aerotech K550w in the box.



I also designed and built a 1/4 scale Viking 7 sounding rocket named "Minion". It is 144" tall, 8" diameter, 98mm mmt, weighed 64lbs on the launch pad. It has successfully flown on 3 L motors upping in impulse each flight. Aerotech L1000w, Aerotech L1256WS-p, Aerotech L1365M.





The L1365M is a beast, 30 times larger then the H115dm I used for my L1 flight. I was reviewing my ARTS2 flight data and the motor thrust curve, I noticed a spike 1/2 second into the burn. The altimetered reported gforce going from 5g to almost 12g for a fracrion of a second. I reviewed the flight video and noticed a shockwave leave the rocket bounce off the ground and zip up in a big bubble/dome out of sight. I have a Aerotech L1500 blue thunder motor for its next flight (full L motor).



Model rockets and the certification process is a journey, each will find their path.

 

[SecondRow]

My L2 was the same as my L1 - motor eject with a JLCR. Only difference was that L2 also had a tracker in the payload section.

I’ve flown 2 DD flights since then. I don’t get many opportunities for HPR, so I’ve got a star orbiter that is waiting on finishing to try low power DD.

 

[rharshberger]

My L1 was a pop at the top about 1200', my L2 was dual deploy since I wanted to get the rocket back, and there are corn fields not far away. As Steve pointed out all methods are okay. Sometimes the choice of recovery deployment and setup is dictated by the field.

 

[b.wieting]

L2, I went with conservative, keep-it-simple conventional thinking. J350, simple motor ejection in a large diameter rocket, LOC MegaMagg (did include a Mobius cam). Used a probably larger than needed 84" TF chute since I was flying at Lucerne--better a longer walk than damage. Perfect flight, zero damage.

For me, key in the build were the great construction tips on John's website (and West Systems epoxy). Thanks!!!

BTW, I had already done a number of electronic single and dual deploy in L1 rockets in the preceding couple years. And have since flown the MegaMagg on K550 stretched for dual deploy.

 

[RocketDestroyer]

I did a dual deploy flight with redundant altimeters. The drogue chute came out at apogee, around 7,000 feet. I used a piston to deploy the main chute at 1000 feet. And just for fun, I flew a GPS tracker that I built myself as well as writing all the code. Needless to say, I learned a lot very quickly.

 

[ZEDL1]

I'm curious to see what people did or plan to do for a HPR level 2 certification (J-L motors). The L2 cert can be seen as just a way to prove experience flying larger motors than L1 or it can be a prep for more complex flight profiles using electronics as well. Feel free to vote for what you did as well as what you would do if you had it to do again.

John, I took the L2 test under the supervision of Bruce Lee. It was many years ago, I believe at LDRS in Nevada, perhaps 1992. He told me that I had answered each of the questions perfectly.
My L2 certification flight was simple, to me. It was in very late 1992, November (I think!) at a launch at Three Oaks MI with what then was theTeam-1 Prefecture. They now fly out of MI, and Tripoli Michiana now flies from Three Oaks.
Electronics were very new and not easily available, definitely to we Canadians. I flew an original Dangerous Dave's (Gawlic) 4'' Mad Dog 40/40 using an AeroTech K550-long delay, motor deployment only, to about 6-7 thousand feet. Perfect flight and recovery.

I still remember that day so clearly, even with the passage of so many years. I was so happy to have done it right.
Interestingly, I have no real interest in attempting L3. I was a TRA Prefect for 15 years, however, I remain very happy with my L2 status.

Jim Smith TRA 00886

 

[Xionone]

You can do DD on Estes kits with D motors or less. DD and HPR have traditionally been linked but you can do DD without needing HPR and you can do HPR without needing DD (until L3) Do whatcha enjoy

Yep, totally agree. I have been DD'ing many scratchbuilt rockets on Klima C's, D's and Aerotech 24mm E's using Eggtimer Quarks. I Get a lot of flights at low cost. Not yet done my L1.