I have a moral dilemma - I need advice

[PayLoad]

Back when I had more money than common sense - prior to Covid shutting down my business & helping me to decide to move across country - I would buy electronics, rockets, parts, everything, like they were going out of style. Due to life taking a turn (nosedive), I've sold most everything I own, including rockets. I'll be back when I get back on my feet.

I posted here asking for help in assembling a sled assembly for some electronics - those "some electronics" being a sled assembly for Two "Twin" Hi res cameras from Caddix, a brand new Aim Xtra GPS , a new rechargeable lipo battery, and a new flightsketch computer, and misc. Bluetooth relays. About $1000 in parts.

A gentleman on this forum accepted the challenge, quoted a fair price, and I sent everything away to him to complete the project.

I am appreciative. But I can't seem to get the project returned to me.

It has been 13 months since I sent these parts to him. He is active on this forum. Suggestions? Or am I being impatient and un appreciative?

 

[dr wogz]

can you elaborate a bit more:

You sent him the parts [pictured] to make the sled for you, and while you have paid for said service, he has not returned anything to you.. is that right?

So, you are out the cost of the parts (~$1000) plus the cost of the service.

Do you have e-mails? do you have an intended timeline? do you have any & all paperwork that says he is in breach of his end of the deal? Is he expecting anything from you to continue? have repeated attempts to contact him (phone calls, e-mails, PM here on TRF, etc) all gone unanswered?

 

[Peartree]

In short, you do not have a moral dilemma. The other person does.

You have every expectation that since he is holding a $1000 in parts, *your* parts, as well as payment (at least a deposit, I suspect) for services rendered (or anticipated), that you should a) have your parts returned to you upon request, b) have your completed project returned to you, or at least c) receive regular updates on the progress of the project if it is currently in process and *actively* being worked on. Failing to do *any* of these things borders on, or crosses over into, theft. There are always two sides, so it's possible for other interpretations if given additional data but, assuming that you have contacted them and requested the return of your property, and/or the completion of your project (and it's return to you), then it seems that they should do so.

The moral dilemma is clearly theirs.

Your dilemma is whether, and when, to contact the authorities.

 

[PayLoad]

All communication has been done here, thru PMs. "Next Week" has been the answer since June. Look, I know life happens (damn do I). At this point I don't even remember what rocket this was for.

 

[Zeus-cat]

Put your foot down and demand your stuff back right now whatever the state of completion the project is in. 13 months is not a reasonable time frame unless something like that was agreed to up front. Demand most of your money back too. This guy is stringing you along for whatever reason.

 

[jqavins]

@dr wogz, @Peartree, and @Zeus-cat all both mentioned payment made by you to the other party, but I don't see mention of that in the OP. Have you paid him anything? The answer is actually of little importance.

Since communications have been through PMs here, they are documented; that's good.

That the answer has been "Next Week" since June means that s/he is answering your messages, if unsatisfactorily. Which is also good, as it means that s/he is acting in something that resembles good faith.

I agree with Peartree that you do not have a moral dilemma, but I don't think the other party does either. You have the choice whether to wait it out or ask that your property (and money, if any) be returned. Neither option is any more or less morally correct than the other; it's only a matter of which you prefer, and you have a perfect moral stance either way. Nor does the other party have a moral dilemma, as the only moral option is to comply with your wishes, i.e. either get the thing done or return your stuff.

If you request the return of your property (and money, if any) and it is not returned, I would suggest filing in small claims court before escalating to a criminal complaint.

Demand most of your money back too.

If you decide to ask for you stuff back, you are entitled to all of your money (if any), not most of it. The other party may wish to be compensated for design time and printing material, but no, s/he is not entitled to any of that if no product is delivered. You should not pay the other party for failing to deliver.

 

[afadeev]

All communication has been done here, thru PMs. "Next Week" has been the answer since June. Look, I know life happens (damn do I). At this point I don't even remember what rocket this was for.

This is not an uncommon vendor management "problem", otherwise known as "mañana" problem (see below). With one complication that you assume the person you had hired is a "buddy", and not a "vendor".

There is only one practical way out of it - give the vendor a (reasonable) deadline to complete the project, with a fair warning of the alternative measures that will be pursued (e.g.: public shaming on this forum, civil remedies via small claims court, criminal remedies via police complaints).
I would suggest emailing the vendor a prepaid shipping label that will be used to return the parts back to you (in whichever state they may be in by the deadline), to avoid additional debates on whether or not the shipment has been handed over to the mail courier, or not.

Good luck,
a

P.S.: English speakers assume "mañana" means tomorrow. Native Spanish speakers usually interpret it as "not today".

 

[jqavins]

There is only one practical way out of it - give the vendor a (reasonable) deadline to complete the project, with a fair warning of the alternative measures that will be pursued (e.g.: public shaming on this forum, civil remedies via small claims court, criminal remedies via police complaints).

With all due respect, I think that is an unnecessarily hostile stance to take right now. If you still want the project to be completed, and it is not but the material (and money, if any) are returned in a timely manner instead, that should be the end of it. If the other party does neither of these things, then come the legal action and public shaming.

In other words, "give the vendor a (reasonable) deadline to complete the project or return all of the stuff, with a fair warning..." If you choose "I want it finished" and the other party (finally) admits "I can't; here's your stuff back", then let it go.

 

[PayLoad]

I don't even care at this point if it is finished or not. Project was worthless to me 6 months ago, at 6 months in. I just want my stuff back so I can dream of future projects with it or sell it.

 

[Enocelot]

When I first saw your handle and the title of your thread, I assumed you must be blasting off kittens or some other vertebrates.....

I'm sort of relieved.

Question why the annonomity? If you sent the guy your stuff why not just out him?

Maybe he has a reason. Whatever, people make mistakes.... but it'd be helpful to the rest of the community.... I'd imagine there are a lot of folks here who want to do business with each other. I'd be helpful to honest posetrs to know who not to deal with.

It's not slander if it's true....

 

[PayLoad]

Question why the annonomity? If you sent the guy your stuff why not just out him?

Maybe he has a reason. Whatever, people make mistakes.... but it'd be helpful to the rest of the community.... I'd imagine there are a lot of folks here who want to do business with each other. I'd be helpful to honest posetrs to know who not to deal with.

It's not slander if it's true....

When I first came here, I sold stuff. I wanted to do good. I made mistakes, and was absolutely slaughtered here on the forum for it. Slaughtered. I won't comment on that, other than to say nobody deserves to feel like that, ever, and I won't do that to anyone else.

If however I don't get my stuff back, of course I'll slaughter

 

[jqavins]

Question why the annonomity? If you sent the guy your stuff why not just out him?

Maybe he has a reason. Whatever, people make mistakes.

I think you've answered your own question. Once the situation is resolved (or isn't) then either "This guy ripped me off!" or "He never finished my project, so I don't think he's reliable" might be appropriate to post, but it's best to keep names out of it until then.

My mother taught me "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Stupidity per se may not be to root is this, but I think the same spirit applies. Stay civil. Don't escalate half-cocked. You get better results if you avoid putting the other party's back up. Don't turn a disagreement into a fight unnecessarily.

Then if it must end up as a fight, win.

 

[kuririn]

I had a similar situation when having a receiver repaired at an audio shop years ago.
Brought the receiver in and waited. After a couple of weeks gave them a call. They said they were waiting for the parts to come in. Waited two more weeks and called: Same response.
After a couple of months I called a third time, same response. It doesn't take two months for parts to come in. Told them to forget it, I'm taking my stereo and going somewhere else to have it fixed. Get a call TWO HOURS later saying that my stereo is fixed and ready for pickup.
So obviously the "waiting for parts" was BS.
Sometimes you have to put your foot down with some people.
Maybe when the slouch sees this thread he'll get off his heinie and finish the project.
Either that or disappear from the forum. Let's hope the former.

 

[hball55]

deleted

 

[Rob Campbell]

It wasn’t hard to do a search using “help assembling sled,” and I found your original post, including the person’s username that offered his help. Boy, if that name doesn’t raise red flags with me, I sure wouldn’t have sent him anything.

By the way, he’s not been seen in here since July 18, 2021.

Maybe something bad happened to him.

 

[hball55]

Maybe something bad happened to him.

Like a frontal lobotomy?

 

[Rob Campbell]

Like a frontal lobotomy?

I was thinking he did the same to someone who insures his transactions with FSLIC, Fernando Salvatore - Legs In Cement.

 

[hball55]

deleted

 

[Rob Campbell]

Someone else questioned his username (conman13) and he replied that it was a nickname from his childhood. So, he got an early start in life and has refined his art. No sense in other people not knowing . . . now if he offers help, they can make an informed decision.

That name jumped off the screen at me as well.

 

[PayLoad]

You have the wrong guy / wrong project. I've posted many projects here. It is not conman13.

On a side note, this is EXACTLY why I did not want to mention a name - the last 5 posts or so.

 

[hball55]

deleted

 

[PayLoad]

deleted

 

[hball55]

The person in question who has the project
Joined Oct 24, 2017
Last seen Today at 9:54 AM

So sorry, there, detective. You are wrong.

Well then, I will delete my posts. Now I do know who the person is. He also offered to help you in your post for help. You are effectively protecting someone who has shown no desire to fulfill his part of the deal. He was last seen at 6:54 a.m. you mean.

 

[PayLoad]

Well then, I will delete my posts....

Not unless you want to look silly.

....Now I do know who the person is. He also offered to help you in your post for help. You are effectively protecting someone who has shown no desire to fulfill his part of the deal. He was last seen at 6:54 a.m. you mean.

OK, now you are starting to look like an ass. Truly nothing personal, just stop

 

[hball55]

You are being very Galant, refusing to out this person despite him stringing you along all this time.

 

[PayLoad]

You are being very Galant, refusing to out this person despite him stringing you along all this time.

Thank you. Now please stop.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Payload,
I agree with Peartree. The person who has possession of your property is responsible for creating this situation. Unfortunately, I don’t have a solution. None of us do. Although you might be able to motivate him with the threat of exposure, at this point the only person who can solve the problem is the person who has your stuff. He probably also started out with honest intentions and because of that you don’t want to throw him under the bus for all to see. I hope you two can work this out.

 

[tim cubbedge]

Michael you now have many options. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.