I’m just glad it didn’t destroy my rocket.

[hermannj]

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[hermannj]

Does Estes offer up replacements for these?


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[crossfire]

Make sure you file a MESS report on motor failure.

 

[hermannj]

Make sure you file a MESS report on motor failure.

I did. [emoji2]


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[Sabrina]

I found a couple of Estes F50 motors like that on clearance at Hobby Lobby a few years ago. I never understood why Estes didn't package them with a starter. The starters Estes sold separately didn't work too good, and some were made so poorly they didn't fit thru the nozzle.

What did you use for a starter?

- and I would suggest you file a warranty claim with Estes for a replacement motor. Just click on the "Contact" button on the Estes webpage to get the email address, and send a note about what happened with a picture of the motor.

 

[Bat-mite]

Wow, I haven't seen one of those in years!

 

[jdbwizzard]

The weird things was the igniter is what split the case. The propellant didn't even light.

 

[DeepOvertone]

The weird things was the igniter is what split the case. The propellant didn't even light.

Are you sure the ejection charge didn't go off?

 

[Steve Shannon]

The weird things was the igniter is what split the case. The propellant didn't even light.

When you look at it, it may look like the propellant didn’t ignite, but it probably did and then snuff out immediately when the pressure inside the case dropped. It’s not unusual for propellant grains to look almost new following this kind of failure.
Thank you very much for filing a MESS Report!


Steve Shannon

 

[jdbwizzard]

When you look at it, it may look like the propellant didn’t ignite, but it probably did and then snuff out immediately when the pressure inside the case dropped. It’s not unusual for propellant grains to look almost new following this kind of failure.
Thank you very much for filing a MESS Report!


Steve Shannon

I bet your right. Everything looked fine but that makes more sense.

 

[hermannj]

I found a couple of Estes F50 motors like that on clearance at Hobby Lobby a few years ago. I never understood why Estes didn't package them with a starter. The starters Estes sold separately didn't work too good, and some were made so poorly they didn't fit thru the nozzle.

What did you use for a starter?

- and I would suggest you file a warranty claim with Estes for a replacement motor. Just click on the "Contact" button on the Estes webpage to get the email address, and send a note about what happened with a picture of the motor.

It was an Estes the first couple of tries, then Lee put in a copperhead I believe.


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[boatgeek]

I have one of those just found in an ancient stash of motors. I'll maybe stick a Firstfire Jr. in there and see what happens.

 

[rockets]

Whoa, that motor looks beat up!
Just a quick question for the experts, can you over pressurize a motor by using too big of an igniter?
I have some OLD Estes C5-3 motors, and I can't seem to ignite them with the Estes small motor igniters, what would happen if I tried a Firstfire Jr. igniter in it?




Thanks,

 

[Bat-mite]

Andrew, to my understanding, the answer to your question is two-fold:

1. Yes, you can over-pressurize a motor by using too big of an igniter.
2. Rear ignition (end-burning) motors are very different from head-ignition motors.

In a typical APCP motor, the igniter goes all the way up into the core. When the propellant lights, there is no place for the exhaust to go but down and out through the nozzle. If the nozzle is blocked in any way, or if the speed of the burn is more significant inside the core than the nozzle can handle, you will get a cato.

In an Estes BP motor, the propellant is lit from the aft end and burns forward. Thus, you cannot over-pressurize an end-burning motor with too big of an igniter because the igniter is not inside the core, and the exhaust is not coming down from the top of the motor out through the nozzle.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

 

[ECayemberg]

Andrew, to my understanding, the answer to your question is two-fold:

1. Yes, you can over-pressurize a motor by using too big of an igniter.
2. Rear ignition (end-burning) motors are very different from head-ignition motors.

In a typical APCP motor, the igniter goes all the way up into the core. When the propellant lights, there is no place for the exhaust to go but down and out through the nozzle. If the nozzle is blocked in any way, or if the speed of the burn is more significant inside the core than the nozzle can handle, you will get a cato.

In an Estes BP motor, the propellant is lit from the aft end and burns forward. Thus, you cannot over-pressurize an end-burning motor with too big of an igniter because the igniter is not inside the core, and the exhaust is not coming down from the top of the motor out through the nozzle.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

All sounds well! Not sure why, but the Estes (By Aerotech) composites seemed to have brittle plastic cases that would fail occasionally. My guess is shipping/handling/stacking fractured the cases causing the bulk of the issues. I'd bet a nickel that the number of catos with those motors would've been drastically reduced if they were packaged in cardboard tubes a la CTI and modern-day Aerotech rather than the baggies. Aside from the Estes sticker around the circumference, they were 100% identical to the Aerotech motors of the same designation(s).

BP C5's: Andrew, note that the C5 are the "last of" the partially cored BP motors...it's what makes the C5 great! Despite the "5", the C5 has a much higher initial thrust than the C6. Pretty much necessary for some of the old school 18mm tanks such as the Tomcat, Scrambler (with Egg), Swat, Sentinel, etc. My favorite 18mm motor BY FAR! Anyhow, the reason I'm rambling on is that it is cored just a touch...in other words you may have to install the igniter in a bit farther up the nozzle than usual. Can't remember ever having one not light, but who knows. Use the blue plugs (not purple like the B6/C6), or masking tape, and get that starter up there as far as she goes. Use a Q2G2 or ematch taped against the underside of the clay nozzle if worst comes to worst. They are expired, but they are not "safety decertified" as some will tout. There was one bad lot, year "Y" I believe...I've never had a single one fail and I've burned at least 50 or 100 over the years. Enjoy!

Sorry to the OP for the CATO..."suffered" a cato and a non-ejection over the weekend with some older mid power motors as well. Part o' rocketry!

 

[mwtoelle]

Whoa, that motor looks beat up!
Just a quick question for the experts, can you over pressurize a motor by using too big of an igniter?
I have some OLD Estes C5-3 motors, and I can't seem to ignite them with the Estes small motor igniters, what would happen if I tried a Firstfire Jr. igniter in it?

Estes C5 and B8 motors need blue igniter plugs. Tape, cotton, or a small piece of wadding should hold the standard Estes igniter in place. Remember, the igniter must touch the propellant. Black powder is the easiest of the propellants used in hobby rocketry motors to ignite. A Firstfire Jr. would be overkill for a C5.