# (HPR) Folding chute

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#### Sevian

##### Well-Known Member
Hello there,

I have finally finished my build of the Madcow Frenzy XL cool

I ordered an 80" Angel chute and I am a littler perplex on how to fit the darn thing in there. Now I'll admin, I have never been skilled with folding and packing chutes and usually result to using a "burrito" method. I thought I ordered to big of a chute, by the wet weight of this rocket is looking to be about ~25lbs.

Any tips, pics, videos would be greatly appreciated. I've looked at the Apogee website and on here, but they seem to be mostly for parachutes that have room in the upper section.

Thanks again!

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Hello there,

I have finally finished my build of the Madcow Frenzy XL cool

I ordered an 80" Angel chute and I am a littler perplex on how to fit the darn thing in there. Now I'll admin, I have never been skilled with folding and packing chutes and usually result to using a "burrito" method. I thought I ordered to big of a chute, by the wet weight of this rocket is looking to be about ~25lbs.

Any tips, pics, videos would be greatly appreciated. I've looked at the Apogee website and on here, but they seem to be mostly for parachutes that have room in the upper section.

Thanks again!
How big of Frenzy is it? That seems a bit on the heavy side if its 4" or less, what motor, foamed fincan etc.

As for fitting a large chute into a smaller area a deployment bag would probably work best or making the "burrito" long and narrow.

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#### Sevian

##### Well-Known Member
How big of Frenzy is it? That seems a bit on the heavy side if its 4" or less, what motor, foamed fincan etc.

As for fitting a large chute into a smaller area a deployment bag would probably work best or making the "burrito" long and narrow.
It's the kit here:

Non-foamed fin can. Openrocket puts it at 21.8lbs with an L1350 (75mm 3 grain) and it'll be just a tad more with a gopro and a second altimeter.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
It's the kit here:

Non-foamed fin can. Openrocket puts it at 21.8lbs with an L1350 (75mm 3 grain) and it'll be just a tad more with a gopro and a second altimeter.
That makes sense now, as the rocket unassembled is 14lbs, and the motor somewhere between 5-7 pounds. Should be a fun flight.

You might consider a Fruity Chutes Iris Ultra, as they pack small for their size but they do carry a hefty price tag a 72" would get the job done at 25lbs.

I would still recommend a d-bag since the help prevent the laundry fitting to tight in the airframe.

#### Sevian

##### Well-Known Member
That makes sense now, as the rocket unassembled is 14lbs, and the motor somewhere between 5-7 pounds. Should be a fun flight.

You might consider a Fruity Chutes Iris Ultra, as they pack small for their size but they do carry a hefty price tag a 72" would get the job done at 25lbs.

I would still recommend a d-bag since the help prevent the laundry fitting to tight in the airframe.

Whew that is kinda out of the budget since I bought the 80" chute. I do have a deployment bag, but I bought it a couple years ago and I don't remember the size and I'm honestly unsure how to pack it and deploy it.

#### markkoelsch

##### Well-Known Member
Is this a 3 or 4 suspension line chute?

#### Sevian

##### Well-Known Member
Is this a 3 or 4 suspension line chute?
For shroud lines? It has four.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
I pack Loc angle style chutes by grabbing the apex of the chute and stretch everything out tight (have someone hold the swivel end of the shroud lines), I the stack the gores as best/cleanly as I can

Starting with the tip of the stack (top of chute)the chute is carefully Z-folded into the bag, until the only thing outside the bag is the shroud lines, then if the chute has loops the shroud lines are routed through them. I use a piece of music wire bent into a j-hook and put it through one set of loops then hook the shroud lines closest to the corner and draw the hook back through the loops, remove the hook leaving the doubled shroud lines still in the loop, repeat for remaining length of shroud lines. To test if its done correctly pull the shroud line end (loop, swivel, or quick link end) lightly and they should pull out of the loops smoothly with just a little resistance.

Depending on whether you are going to go free bag or tethered bag is whether the chute is connected at its apex to the tether on the inside of the d-bag. The chutesquick link is attached to the recovery harness.

The pilot chute is connected to the loop on the top outside of the d-bag. The pilot chute is required to pull the bag off the chute.

If doing a free bag set up the pilot chute is also connected to the nose cone and the nose cone and d-bag will descend on their own under the pilot chute which is sized to give about the same descent rate as the main chute. Free bag is very reliable for getting the laundry out and cleanly deployed.

Below is B2 rocketry's (same type chute as the Loc Angle probably even same manufacturer) method of packing a free bag set up, only real difference in my method is I Z-stuff into the bag instead of push the stack in all at one time like they do.

View attachment Freebag(1).pdf

View attachment CERT 3 fold(1).pdf

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#### Sevian

##### Well-Known Member
I pack Loc angle style chutes by grabbing the apex of the chute and stretch everything out tight (have someone hold the swivel end of the shroud lines), I the stack the gores as best/cleanly as I can

Starting with the tip of the stack (top of chute)the chute is carefully Z-folded into the bag, until the only thing outside the bag is the shroud lines, then if the chute has loops the shroud lines are routed through them. I use a piece of music wire bent into a j-hook and put it through one set of loops then hook the shroud lines closest to the corner and draw the hook back through the loops, remove the hook leaving the doubled shroud lines still in the loop, repeat for remaining length of shroud lines. To test if its done correctly pull the shroud line end (loop, swivel, or quick link end) lightly and they should pull out of the loops smoothly with just a little resistance.

Depending on whether you are going to go free bag or tethered bag is whether the chute is connected at its apex to the tether on the inside of the d-bag. The chutesquick link is attached to the recovery harness.

The pilot chute is connected to the loop on the top outside of the d-bag. The pilot chute is required to pull the bag off the chute.

If doing a free bag set up the pilot chute is also connected to the nose cone and the nose cone and d-bag will descend on their own under the pilot chute which is sized to give about the same descent rate as the main chute. Free bag is very reliable for getting the laundry out and cleanly deployed.

Below is B2 rocketry's (same type chute as the Loc Angle probably even same manufacturer) method of packing a free bag set up, only real difference in my method is I Z-stuff into the bag instead of push the stack in all at one time like they do.

View attachment 309615

View attachment 309616
Thanks for the useful info and pdfs!

I have an XL bag but that's rated for >5" and I tried to back it as tightly possible but it's just two big.

I'll have to try the cert 3 fold and see if I can get it to work.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks for the useful info and pdfs!

I have an XL bag but that's rated for >5" and I tried to back it as tightly possible but it's just two big.

I'll have to try the cert 3 fold and see if I can get it to work.
I'm really lucky that my wife sews my d-bags for me so I can custom size the diameter of mine to the airframe, for your size chute (I believe its a Cert3L equivalent) it would take a bag a bit less than 4" in diameter and close to 18" long to easily slide in and out of the airframe, I could be wrong on the size equivalency of the chute though.
Good luck.

#### Sevian

##### Well-Known Member
I'm really lucky that my wife sews my d-bags for me so I can custom size the diameter of mine to the airframe, for your size chute (I believe its a Cert3L equivalent) it would take a bag a bit less than 4" in diameter and close to 18" long to easily slide in and out of the airframe, I could be wrong on the size equivalency of the chute though.
Good luck.
So far the tightest I have been able to fold it is just a tad too big to fit. I'm thinking about switching to a 48" upper airframe to allow more room and of course a bigger rocket. Any thing I should watch out for doing so?

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
So far the tightest I have been able to fold it is just a tad too big to fit. I'm thinking about switching to a 48" upper airframe to allow more room and of course a bigger rocket. Any thing I should watch out for doing so?
Make sure the ejection charge is strong enough, other than that I don't know.

#### rocketsam2016

##### Well-Known Member
That makes sense now, as the rocket unassembled is 14lbs, and the motor somewhere between 5-7 pounds. Should be a fun flight.

You might consider a Fruity Chutes Iris Ultra, as they pack small for their size but they do carry a hefty price tag a 72" would get the job done at 25lbs.

I would still recommend a d-bag since the help prevent the laundry fitting to tight in the airframe.
Openrocket puts it at 21.8 with that motor at burnout or on the pad? Remember it's the burnout weight that matters, and I was thinking mine (same rocket) would be in the 17lb range other than the motor casing. Iirc the raw parts that came with the kit came in at less than 13lbs dry though madcow lists the kit at 14lbs. I could be misremembering though...

I have learned the hard way to keep my parachutes returnable until ive finished the build though

#### rocketsam2016

##### Well-Known Member
Also have you considered swapping the drogue and main compartments? The drogue compartment is bigger I think.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Openrocket puts it at 21.8 with that motor at burnout or on the pad? Remember it's the burnout weight that matters, and I was thinking mine (same rocket) would be in the 17lb range other than the motor casing. Iirc the raw parts that came with the kit came in at less than 13lbs dry though madcow lists the kit at 14lbs. I could be misremembering though...

I have learned the hard way to keep my parachutes returnable until ive finished the build though
Open rocket determines the loaded motor weight for design purpose, but I believe the recovery sim uses burnout motor weight.

#### rocketsam2016

##### Well-Known Member
Open rocket determines the loaded motor weight for design purpose, but I believe the recovery sim uses burnout motor weight.
Yup. So I have a stock frenzy 4" xl .rkt file open in openrocket now with 14lb override on the mass of the loaded rocket with no motor (that's the way madcow has it set up if you download it from their site IIRC). If I put an L1350 in it gives 21.9 as the weight with motor on the pad and a 17.5lb weight at burnout.

#### Exactimator

##### Well-Known Member
I had a 9 ft Rocketman chute that I managed to stuff into the payload section of an RW X-Celerator. It was no small task. I folded it per the CERT3.PDF rharshberger posted. Only difference is instead of using a bag, I burrito wrapped it in an 18"x18" nomex from Madcow. With a tubular nylon harness with a 60" protective sleeve, and I was just able to get it all to fit. Still took a hole lot of shoving to get it in, and it filled up the whole tube. Then it took 3g of BP to deploy it. I don't know how a Rocketman compares to an Angel, material-wise. If it's any thicker, I could see how you wouldn't get it to fit.

I ended up buying a 70" Top Flight that fit much easier and has plenty of CD to bring the rocket in without damage (weighs 12.6 lbs without the motor). That 9' Rocketman was a well made chute, but better suited for a 5.5" rocket with more room.

Putting a longer payload tube in shouldn't negatively affect anything, other than increase the weight a little. It'll help with stability. Worst case, if you end up getting a smaller chute, someone here will buy the Angel from you.

#### sharkbait

##### Well-Known Member
I had a 9 ft Rocketman chute that I managed to stuff into the payload section of an RW X-Celerator. It was no small task. I folded it per the CERT3.PDF rharshberger posted. Only difference is instead of using a bag, I burrito wrapped it in an 18"x18" nomex from Madcow. With a tubular nylon harness with a 60" protective sleeve, and I was just able to get it all to fit. Still took a hole lot of shoving to get it in, and it filled up the whole tube. Then it took 3g of BP to deploy it. I don't know how a Rocketman compares to an Angel, material-wise. If it's any thicker, I could see how you wouldn't get it to fit.

I ended up buying a 70" Top Flight that fit much easier and has plenty of CD to bring the rocket in without damage (weighs 12.6 lbs without the motor). That 9' Rocketman was a well made chute, but better suited for a 5.5" rocket with more room.

Putting a longer payload tube in shouldn't negatively affect anything, other than increase the weight a little. It'll help with stability. Worst case, if you end up getting a smaller chute, someone here will buy the Angel from you.
+1

Put the Angel up on the yard sale, if you don't want to spend additional $$on a fruity, then get a 84" Top flight, it will fit no problem and you can put the savings$$\$ back in your pocket