Help with LOC Starburst build

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Wayco

Desert Rat Rocketeer
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Last weekend was the SSS G Harry Stine Memorial launch, which is supported by "What's Up Hobbies". Jack (the owner) got there early on Friday, and by late afternoon, had his trailer unpacked and was open for business. Sharon (my wife) and I wandered down there with a wish list and a $200 budget. I started in picking out reloads and Sharon was looking at kits. We both found more than enough stuff to destroy our budget and then some. Back in the corner where Jack keeps his kits, Sharon picked out an LOC Starburst, which I think is a discontinued model. She said she wanted it so she could fly clusters, but I'm pretty sure she just wanted something bigger than my Nuke Pro Max.
Last night we opened the package and went over the instructions. The only thing we both didn't like was the nylon loop glued to the BT for recovery retention. So we decided to do it like I did the Nuke, and run a kevlar chord anchored through the motor mount.
Sharon runs a research business, so it wasn't long before she found the RocketReviews.com write-up on her rocket. After we talked about other modifications, we decided that trying to keep it light enough to fly on "D's" wasn't gonna happen, so she asked me to start a thread asking for ideas and any experiences or advice you might have for building this big 49" rocket. So if you have this rocket, please tell us what motors you like to use in it, how much yours weighs, and anything else that could help with our build. If you don't have a Starburst, it's 49" tall, 2.63" diameter rocket with two 24mm motor mount tubes, and theoretically can be built to weigh 20 oz. but the instructions talk about using copious amounts of epoxy in the motor mounts, and slathering more onto a nylon loop near the top of the BT for a recovery anchor. Our kit included a coupler and 12" BT that was not listed in the "parts list" but was mentioned in the instructions. The entire assembly instructions are on one side of a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of cardstock, with a picture of the rocket and it's dimensions with a list of other models made by LOC on the other side. No decals were included.
So help me out here gang, this isn't a HPR build, but it's a big rocket to be flying on 24mm motors. D-12's will only get it to 300 ft. :eek:
 
The shock cord glued to the side of the rocket works extremely well. Never had one fail on me yet (though anything larger than the EZI bolt the cord directly to the centering ring). An I fly my loc kits a lot.

You should also have a bulkhead and screw eye to glue into the tube coupler. This makes the payload bay. I built mine with epoxy. Flew mine with D12-3's, E9-6's, F12's, and E18's. I would love to try one with dual F30's, but I no longer have my starburst :(
 
I just started a LOC Starburst the other day as well. Here's a few photos of where mine is at--may help the questions some:

This is how the coupler (6" coupler, so put it in half way into the payload section) and payload bay bulkhead go together.
2011-10-28_18-11-33_475.jpg

2011-10-28_18-09-07_635.jpg


A shot down the body tube--it's not as much epoxy as it looks here. I installed a welded eyebolt onto the centering ring and used 700lbs Kevlar doubled over for the recovery harness. I am told the LOC method works fine--I just felt better with something more secure. This isn't a minimum diameter record making rocket, so a few extra grams of weight is insignificant. I plan to fly this on composite E thru G's only.
2011-10-28_18-10-34_493.jpg


Two fins on and one to go. Put 8-32 all-thread in between the two motor tubes for retention--simple, effective and cheap. Pro24 and the Aerotech 24/60 motors protrude above the motor mounts by 0.25". So, if you install all-thread also, about 0.25" plus a little for the bolts and a few extra threads should be plenty. The Aerotech 24/40 motors are shorter.
2011-10-28_18-09-27_269.jpg


Excuse the messy workbench--I do know where everything is despite the clutter! Darn shame LOC discontinued this one--I've wanted one for awhile. For those interested, they're on the LOC website with OOP discounts--I think $54 while they last.
 
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Wayne,

Let me know if you are interested in putting in a 29mm motor mount. I have some 29mm LOC motor mount tube and some centering rings that should fit your 2.63" BT.
 
Wayne,

Let me know if you are interested in putting in a 29mm motor mount. I have some 29mm LOC motor mount tube and some centering rings that should fit your 2.63" BT.

This might be the way we will go with this build. Thanks Che, but I have some left over 29mm tube from my Vagabond build. Are your centering rings made for twin tubes/cluster? I can dremel out the existing holes, but a set that is already the right size would be easier. Sharon likes the idea of bigger motors, and it would give me an excuse to add a couple more 29/40-120 cases to our stuff.
Thanks to everyone for the input, I'm also liking the all-thread motor retention.
 
Excuse the messy workbench--I do know where everything is despite the clutter! Darn shame LOC discontinued this one--I've wanted one for awhile. For those interested, they're on the LOC website with OOP discounts--I think $54 while they last.

MESSY WORK BENCH?! BWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :rofl: That's nothing dude.

By the way, if you want to save even more $$$ and weight go with 6/32 all-thread for retention. Works just as well and is a common size so you can find it at most any hardware store. I've used it effectively on motors as large as a J570. You probably could have gotten away with one all-thread right smack in between the two MMT's. You'd just need a bigger washer. :cool:
 
I just started a LOC Starburst the other day as well. Here's a few photos of where mine is at--may help the questions some:

This is how the coupler (6" coupler, so put it in half way into the payload section) and payload bay bulkhead go together.
2011-10-28_18-11-33_475.jpg

2011-10-28_18-09-07_635.jpg


A shot down the body tube--it's not as much epoxy as it looks here. I installed a welded eyebolt onto the centering ring and used 700lbs Kevlar doubled over for the recovery harness. I am told the LOC method works fine--I just felt better with something more secure. This isn't a minimum diameter record making rocket, so a few extra grams of weight is insignificant. I plan to fly this on composite E thru G's only.
2011-10-28_18-10-34_493.jpg


Two fins on and one to go. Put 8-32 all-thread in between the two motor tubes for retention--simple, effective and cheap. Pro24 and the Aerotech 24/60 motors protrude above the motor mounts by 0.25". So, if you install all-thread also, about 0.25" plus a little for the bolts and a few extra threads should be plenty. The Aerotech 24/40 motors are shorter.
2011-10-28_18-09-27_269.jpg


Excuse the messy workbench--I do know where everything is despite the clutter! Darn shame LOC discontinued this one--I've wanted one for awhile. For those interested, they're on the LOC website with OOP discounts--I think $54 while they last.

Like seeing that you are using the Estes Fin Tube marking tool in the construction of the LOC MPR kit !

Hope Sharon has a blast with this - how did she like flying the reloads ? This is begging for a pair of F35's!

Kenny
 
Wayco...why stop at 2x29? Three fits perfectly!


I don't think there would be enough centering ring to mount a retention system to, but we did slip three 29mm tubes in to check it out. If I just glued the tubes together and then glued them to the body tube, how could I retain them? A 2.63" centering ring with three 29mm holes in it would be four little pieces, not a ring.....

Like seeing that you are using the Estes Fin Tube marking tool in the construction of the LOC MPR kit !

Hope Sharon has a blast with this - how did she like flying the reloads ? This is begging for a pair of F35's!

Kenny

I'm not sure, but I might have created a MONSTER! We are already looking to upgrade her kit to 29mm motor mounts, I just haven't figured out a retention system that would let us fly her 24mm cases. Is the F35 the only reload for the 24/60 casing?
 


I'm not sure, but I might have created a MONSTER! We are already looking to upgrade her kit to 29mm motor mounts, I just haven't figured out a retention system that would let us fly her 24mm cases. Is the F35 the only reload for the 24/60 casing?
CTI makes lots of interesting 24 mm motors :D
 
Wayne, you would have to drill them out, but it is completely doable. Let me know if you want them, as of now, I have no plans for them.

I also, have some 1/8" plywood, as well as, some 1/4" plywood if you want to cut your own.
 
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Thanks Che, if we do go to 29mm, we will probably just use the CR's we have. Rocketjunkie has a good point too, when I showed Sharon all the 24mm reloads CTI has, she was vacillating between 24 and 29mm motor mounts. I'm starting to look at some of the long burning loads I can get from CTI too. That free casing that I got last weekend might cost me a LOT of $$$. There are several 29mm 3 grain reloads I could fly Duke on in the $20 range. Sharon wants the 3 grain 24mm CTI casing for her Starburst now so I might have to consider joining the Wildman's club for their discount.
 
That free casing that I got last weekend might cost me a LOT of $$$. There are several 29mm 3 grain reloads I could fly Duke on in the $20 range. Sharon wants the 3 grain 24mm CTI casing for her Starburst now so I might have to consider joining the Wildman's club for their discount.

If you are referring to the Free Casing that I think you are - Remember that is a 2 grain CTI Pro 38 case.
 
Yes, 3 29's would leave you with little wedges for the centering rings, but I've had BMS make similar and it works just fine. There's just enough room in the middle for a single piece of allthread for retention (+ a small washer and nut and you're done).

Clusters might not be cost efficient, but that's probably not your reason for being in this hobby!:eyepop:

-Ken
 
If you are referring to the Free Casing that I think you are - Remember that is a 2 grain CTI Pro 38 case.

Was that you Roy? It's hard to keep everyone straight with the names they use on the forum. If that was you handing out CTI casings, thanks a bunch! That was one of the highlights of my excellent birthday weekend. Yes, I'm aware of the casing size, remember I bought two 38mm 2 grain reloads from Jack immediately after you gave it to me. If he had a H100 IMAX I would have got it too. The way I worded my last post does infer I'm buying 29mm reloads for the "free" casing, but what I meant was I need to get a 29mm 3 grain casing to fly the long burning reloads like the H87 I MAX, G54 RED MOON BURNER and the H54 White long burn..... Lots of great motor choices for that casing. I really haven't looked at the CTI line until now, and they have some great motors!
 
Yes, 3 29's would leave you with little wedges for the centering rings, but I've had BMS make similar and it works just fine. There's just enough room in the middle for a single piece of allthread for retention (+ a small washer and nut and you're done).

Clusters might not be cost efficient, but that's probably not your reason for being in this hobby!:eyepop:

-Ken

No rings needed for 3 x 29mm... wedge em in , epoxy well, then fill the spaces with paper towels, saturate with thin CA to make em solid, then cover with a 1/4"-ish epoky 'cap' to create ,basically, an epoxy centering ring.

For retention = one single stud, in the center of the three tubes, just as you did your 24mm mount - leave a lenth of rod inside the tube center, and fill with epoxy to glue the rod in.

29mm cluster in that will rip - I had a Starbust ( til lost to a NY tree ), and it flew great on D12s and E motors, F-G would be pushing it up there :)

~ AL
 
Finished rocket...

_MG_6039.jpg

_MG_6041.jpg

_MG_6042.jpg

_MG_6043.jpg


I am enjoying it while I can...rockets don't tend to stay pretty for long once flown. First flight this weekend should be on two AT E28-7Ts. Final weight was 21oz. Neat rocket--hope LOC brings it back!
 

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