Gone like the wind

[Jettster104]

Hello everybody, Im kinda new to the rocketry world, with around 30 launches to my name, lol. I have a question and im sure someone out here has the answer to it, but has anyone launched a rocket on a clear day and it just dissappears into the thin air ,never to be seen again ? There were 2 other people besides myself there and noone had a clue as to what happened to it , do they desinergrate if maybe a little bigger engine is installed than what is called for, it just really.has Me scratching my head. Thanks for any help.with this matter!

 

[Hobie1dog]

simple, the higher it goes, the smaller it gets, and the chance of disappearing increases. Then you don't see the descent direction.

 

[dhbarr]

Yup, this happens quite a lot with large motors in small rockets. Much more so if it's painted blue or green, it's super windy, you're on a small field, and/or there's deep grass, brush, etc.

For the next go, consider starting with a smaller motor and working your way up once you see how the initial recovery goes.

 

[samb]

Hello Jettster104. I’m willing to bet this has happened to everybody who frequents this forum. Relatively big motor in a relatively small, light rocket moving fast off the pad. Apogee deployment of a parachute with winds aloft blowing harder than you feel on the ground. Yep it happens. Don’t think it disintegrated, it just landed about a mile or two downwind.
Next time try this:
Use a streamer instead of a parachute. The risk of a busted fin beats losing the rocket. That’s why you bring some super glue in your range kit.
Tape the shroudlines of your chute together to keep the canopy from opening.
Invest in a Jolly Logic Chute Release. This gizmo keeps the parachute bundled until the rocket reaches a lower altitude.

Hope this helps and welcome to the party.

 

[Antares JS]

(...) do they desinergrate if maybe a little bigger engine is installed than what is called for, it just really.has Me scratching my head.

No. It just got too high up to see and you never caught sight of it again. It happens. It's why we have RDF or GPS trackers for high-performance rockets now.

To prevent this from happening with small rockets, use a smaller motor, and/or use brightly-colored paint like red or orange, or even a bright metallic silver can make your rocket flash in the sun and increase its visibility.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

That can happen with small rockets. The Estes Mosquito is a good example. They're called "single use rockets". Once you push the launch button, it's not your rocket any more until you have it back in your hands again.

I had just the opposite happen when I launched a rocket with my younger brother several years ago. It was probably a combination of too big of a motor and too big of a parachute. When the parachute came out, the rocket went UP (it probably caught a thermal). We tracked to for more than 20 minutes before giving up. I don't know if it ever came down.

 

[Zeus-cat]

Pay attention to the direction the other rockets drifted when they came down. Search in that direction and walk out farther than you think the rocket landed. Even experienced rocketeers underestimate the distance a rocket will travel under chute. You might still find it.

 

[neil_w]

One thing you learn when launching rockets is that the sky is Very Big. This seems stupidly obvious but when trying to track a small rocket in a clear sky with no points of reference the point is really driven home.

Yes, it's very easy to lose visual tracking on a rocket, and once lost it can be very hard to get back.

A couple of years ago I was tracking a rocket coming down on parachute. It was right in front of me and I was walking towards it. At one point I looked down for about one second and when I looked back up the rocket was gone. Even though I knew (or thought I knew) exactly where I was looking it was like it just disappeared.

I only recovered it (eventually) because some other folks back at the pad area had a line on it and directed me to it. It was also quite a bit farther than I had realized, another thing you learn the hard way.

 

[mh9162013]

Would launching a small rocket with a big engine at night (with maybe a colored LED strobe) make it easier to track? It should, right? Even if it's a D composite 18mm in a performance-built BT-20 rocket that goes 2,500+ feet? But I have never heard of anyone launching at night with a light on the rocket for the purposes of greater ease in tracking.

I'm not missing anything, like night launches being against NAR regulations or something?

 

[techrat]

This happens more than anyone wants to admit. I had a Big Bertha that evaporated after leaving the pad. I was using an 18mm composite D motor, the rocket flew off "like a rocket", suddenly made a sharp right turn and headed towards the trees. Never found it. If you've ever launched the infamous "mosquito", they launch, are too small to be seen, and never come back because you can't track them unless you have the eyesight and reflexes of a cat.

 

[Antares JS]

Would launching a small rocket with a big engine at night (with maybe a colored LED strobe) make it easier to track? It should, right? Even if it's a D composite 18mm in a performance-built BT-20 rocket that goes 2,500+ feet? But I have never heard of anyone launching at night with a light on the rocket for the purposes of greater ease in tracking.

I'm not missing anything, like night launches being against NAR regulations or something?

Night launches with light-up rockets are not common but they are absolutely a thing. Sparky motors are popular during them.

 

[jmasterj]

Would launching a small rocket with a big engine at night (with maybe a colored LED strobe) make it easier to track? It should, right? Even if it's a D composite 18mm in a performance-built BT-20 rocket that goes 2,500+ feet? But I have never heard of anyone launching at night with a light on the rocket for the purposes of greater ease in tracking.

I'm not missing anything, like night launches being against NAR regulations or something?

I wouldn't try to launch anything that small that high at night, it's still pretty hard to see at high altitudes. My local NAR sections have one night launch a year. Even small BP motors are visually impressive at night.

 

[mh9162013]

I wouldn't try to launch anything that small that high at night, it's still pretty hard to see at high altitudes.

But it would be easier to track say...a D-composite 18mm engine Estes Wizard with a clear payload bay with an LED strobe inside that's launched at night versus a stock Wizard (using the same engine) that's launched during the day, right?

 

[techrat]

FYI: This is why I build large rockets. Even my 18mm motor'ed rockets are as big as I can get them. 1.6" diameter now pretty much seems to be my minimum, although I'm still making some with BT-55 because I still have parts laying about. An average size rocket for me is the Citation Patriot. But I like them big because I can see them as they go up, and I can still see them as they come down. Currently building a 3" diameter, 3-foot tall rocket with 4 large fins, and that's going to be visible to at least 3000 feet altitude.

 

[jmasterj]

But it would be easier to track say...a D-composite 18mm engine Estes Wizard with a clear payload bay with an LED strobe inside that's launched at night versus a stock Wizard (using the same engine) that's launched during the day, right?

Probably, but I bet much of that is all the extra weight a usefully-bright LED setup will add.

 

[mh9162013]

I've been brainstorming a project where I try to get a BT-20 or BT-50 sized rocket as high as I can. Yes, there's a bit of a challenge in maximizing altitude, but my biggest concern/hurdle is making sure I can find the rocket after launch. So most of my brainstorming has been focused on that issue.

 

[mh9162013]

Probably, but I bet much of that is all the extra weight a usefully-bright LED setup will add.

I think there are small LED "blinkies" that are just a few grams. I know that's a lot in a BT-20 rocket that weights 12-20 grams, but that's my best idea for maximizing altitude while also having at least some chance of tracking it.

 

[SolarYellow]

Some aero engineer buddies of mine solved this problem when camping at the dry lake by just gluing fins and launch lugs directly to motors from an A8-3 bulk pack. Took less time than prepping a chute. Some people tried to pick up as many motors in the morning as they remembered launching the day/night before.

 

[lakeroadster]

Some aero engineer buddies of mine solved this problem when camping at the dry lake by just gluing fins and launch lugs directly to motors from an A8-3 bulk pack. Took less time than prepping a chute. Some people tried to pick up as many motors in the morning as they remembered launching the day/night before.

And that violates NAR Safety rules if the spent rocket comes in ballistic.

10. Recovery System. I will use a recovery system such as a streamer or parachute in my rocket so that it returns safely and undamaged and can be flown again, and I will use only flame-resistant or fireproof recovery system wadding in my rocket.​

 

[Back_at_it]

Has happened to all of us at one point or another. At one point last year I went out to fly and lost two of the first three rockets I launched. These were fairly decent sized rockets with modest motors. One I lost in the sun, don't know where it went. The other I lost track of on it's decent. I heard something to my left and looked away for a split second. I wasn't able to find it in the sky after that. Never take you eye off the rocket. Follow it all the way to the ground.

I always recommend using the smallest recommended motor for the first few flights then work your way up. All too often I see people show up with an Alpha III starter set with the pad still in the plastic and pack of C6-7 motors. Normally I'll ask them why they bought three motors because they'll never see it again after the first one and hand them a couple of A8-3's to fly.

Quick story. At our last club launch we had grand parents come out with two pair's of Rascal / Hi-Jink and two launch pads. Everything was still in the packaging. I along with the other club members helped them assemble the rockets, set up the pads, taught them how to pack chutes, add wadding and properly use the igniters. When the grand kids arrived they had six successful launches. The first three were on A8-3's and the last three were on B4-4's All rockets recovered safely.

I have a feeling that those people will be back for future launches.

 

[Rob Campbell]

Happened to me in 1975. I launched an Estes WAC Corporal (BT-20 body tube) on a C6-7. Never even saw the chute.

 

[tsmmiller]

When I was a kid and into rocketry along with my brother and several friends we purposely built quite a few of the Misquitos for the joy of watching them disappear with the C6 motors. Out of the many (it was way more than 10) we launched not a single one was ever recovered.

 

[techrat]

When I was a kid and into rocketry along with my brother and several friends we purposely built quite a few of the Misquitos for the joy of watching them disappear with the C6 motors. Out of the many (it was way more than 10) we launched not a single one was ever recovered.

That's because they are in orbit. I didn't even know a Mosquito could take a 18mm Motor, but, assuming you did that, a C6 either shredded the rocket into tiny bits or it launched a 3" long rocket to 1000 feet and it basically became invisible, and floated away into another state.

 

[Rob Campbell]

When I was a kid and into rocketry along with my brother and several friends we purposely built quite a few of the Misquitos for the joy of watching them disappear with the C6 motors. Out of the many (it was way more than 10) we launched not a single one was ever recovered.

Mosquito or Streak? The Mosquito only took 13mm motors, A10 max. The Streak was a full 18mm motor and could hit 2,000 feet on a C6.

 

[Back_at_it]

That's because they are in orbit. I didn't even know a Mosquito could take a 18mm Motor, but, assuming you did that, a C6 either shredded the rocket into tiny bits or it launched a 3" long rocket to 1000 feet and it basically became invisible, and floated away into another state.

I don't know of a factory mosquito that takes an 18mm motor but I have built a few small rockets that were just long enough to fit a motor. The idea was it would spit out the motor and tumble down. What I didn't count on was the thick wet brush we launched on.

The first was on an A8-0 and we watched it come down. Just couldn't find it. The second believe was something silly like a B14-5. Pushed the button and it just disappeared. We didn't find parts so I don't think it shredded but we never saw it again.

 

[SolarYellow]

And that violates NAR Safety rules if the spent rocket comes in ballistic.

10. Recovery System. I will use a recovery system such as a streamer or parachute in my rocket so that it returns safely and undamaged and can be flown again, and I will use only flame-resistant or fireproof recovery system wadding in my rocket.​

I cannot endorse the majority of the actions taken by USC engineering students when either drimping or camnking at a dry lake. It's nevertheless entertaining to spectate. One pro tip: keep the windows of your vehicle rolled up.

 

[K'Tesh]

The only time it truly happened to me, was when I was launching an Estes Mosquito... I'm certain that it passed Jupiter's orbit about 25 years ago.

 

[mh9162013]

USC engineering

Isn't that an oxymoron?

(kidding!)

 

[SolarYellow]

Isn't that an oxymoron?

(kidding!)

They pass out degrees that say that on them. Who am I to argue?

I only knew them because I worked with a few of them one summer. Turned out they were entertaining to hang out with, so I kept doing it for a few years.

 

[tsmmiller]

That's because they are in orbit. I didn't even know a Mosquito could take a 18mm Motor, but, assuming you did that, a C6 either shredded the rocket into tiny bits or it launched a 3" long rocket to 1000 feet and it basically became invisible, and floated away into another state.

Might have been the streak. Memory issues. This was way back in the mid 70's! I know it was all the rocket could take. It had a hole at the top of the tube just below the nose cone. The hole at the top for creating the tumble recovery was partially blocked by the end of the motor.
Once launched all you saw was a smoke trail. Then nothing until the next one launched.