FDA Approved Narcan for over-the-counter

[NateB]

And for a bleeding head wound, a tournequet?

There is a device for badly bleeding scalp wounds called an IT clamp. They can be used in places where you can't easily pack a wound or can't apply a tourniquet. I think they are OTC, but I'm not positive.

https://www.innovativetraumacare.com/itclamp

 

[prfesser]

And for a bleeding head wound, a tournequet?

For much of the Dunning-Kruger faction a tourniquet around the neck will do no damage. Loosen every fifteen minutes to permit blood flow to the eyeballs, muscles, bone, and tendons. With only five working neurons, the brain doesn't need it.

[It's a joke, son, it's a joke]

 

[TheTank]

You don't have to carry Narcan for addicts. But accidental exposure to bystanders does happen, so it's nice to have for that.

That’s the only reason I’d entertain carrying it. For a junkie, nope. And yes, I have had good friends throw their lives away to dope - some overdosing and killing themselves. I have zero sympathy for the cause and effect upon themselves for their actions. I do have sympathy for those that have to deal with them though.

 

[dhbarr]

That’s the only reason I’d entertain carrying it. For a junkie, nope. And yes, I have had good friends throw their lives away to dope - some overdosing and killing themselves. I have zero sympathy for the cause and effect upon themselves for their actions. I do have sympathy for those that have to deal with them though.

One doesn't have to sympathize with someone to choose to spare them.

 

[TheTank]

One doesn't have to sympathize with someone to choose to spare them.

If I'm honest, I don't choose to do either. I have worn out giving junkies additional chances to straighten themselves out only to train wreck again given the statistically proven high rate of relapse and my personal and close experience with several that ultimately died but only after making disasters out of their families creating heartache at every turn.

I would rather spend the resources helping those that didnt choose to put themselves in such a bad situation like funding Epi-pens to save folks that were by fate taking a risk when they step outside as well as the innocent folks that get exposed to garbage like fentanyl because of junkies and their poor decisions.

 

[cwbullet]

I would rather spend the resources helping those that didnt choose to put themselves in such a bad situation like funding Epi-pens to save folks that were by fate taking a risk when they step outside as well as the innocent folks that get exposed to garbage like fentanyl because of junkies and their poor decisions.

I hope you know that a sgnificant number of the overdoes in my hospital system this year did not choose to take the narcotic. They were exposed on the job due to exposure. Imagine your family member being exposed while at the neighborhood market or school because of a susicious white powder. Not everyone saved by Narcan is a Junkie. In fact, those so called junkies are less likely to need it than the general public.

 

[TheTank]

I hope you know that a sgnificant number of the overdoes in my hospital system this year did not choose to take the narcotic. They were exposed on the job due to exposure. Imagine your family member being exposed while at the neighborhood market or school because of a susicious white powder. Not everyone saved by Narcan is a Junkie. In fact, those so called junkies are less likely to need it than the general public.

Re-read my response that you quoted. I specifically mentioned those exposed due to no fault of their own. And my response prior to that said that that would be the only reason that I would carry Narcan would be for those that were accidentally exposed.

 

[cwbullet]

Re-read my response that you quoted. I specifically mentioned those exposed due to no fault of their own. And my response prior to that said that that would be the only reason that I would carry Narcan would be for those that were accidentally exposed.

It still is incredibly naive to make a statement like that. So are you telling me that you will do nothing if you think they are a junkie?

 

[TheTank]

It still is incredibly naive to make a statement like that. So are you telling me that you will do nothing if you think they are a junkie?

Not naïve at all if you have experience with it and know what you are looking at. It's pretty obvious if they are a junkie/user.

And you are correct, I would do nothing if they were. Your a physician, you may have pounded on the chest of some junkie trying to save them. Now do it in front of said junkies' 7 and 9 year old kids during his second overdose as they plead for you to save their daddy's life after he already destroyed their lives on most fronts. It would have been better for them if he had not revived after the first time seeing the disastrous path of carnage he created between episode one and 2. You may live with some utopian view that a large portion of these folks turn their lives around. That's nice. I choose to confront the stark reality based on the statistics and my personal experience.

 

[CalebJ]

Your stark reality sounds remarkably similar to callous and willful indifference.

 

[fyrwrxz]

Living this close to the border and having lost a police friend to this stuff (fentanyl) is seriously scary. This stuff is so toxic in minute amounts, you may never even know. I survived the 60's, now I wanna beat the 20's...do rockets, not drugs!

 

[TheTank]

Your stark reality sounds remarkably similar to callous and willful indifference.

Interpret it as you like. It is in fact the cold hard reality based on the statistics. Feel free to google them. I've put in all the effort I am going to expend on junkies.

 

[NateB]

Interpret it as you like. It is in fact the cold hard reality based on the statistics. Feel free to google them. I've put in all the effort I am going to expend on junkies.

I hope you never get into a car accident, slip a disc, have cancer, or other conditions where you receive narcotics. Addiction can happen to any of us. Addicts look like all of us. It isn't always the bum in the streets.

 

[TheTank]

I hope you never get into a car accident, slip a disc, have cancer, or other conditions where you receive narcotics. Addiction can happen to any of us. Addicts look like all of us. It isn't always the bum in the streets.

I been prescribed them on several occasions for surgeries and accidents. I chose not to abuse them.

 

[Titan II]

It certainly reflects your the reality of your own moral depravity. Very little else.

Name-calling, derogatory language, personal attacks, and disparaging remarks absolutely will not be tolerated.

 

[dhbarr]

If I'm honest, I don't choose to do either.

Not my choice, but I can respect the honesty.

 

[cwbullet]

Your stark reality sounds remarkably similar to callous and willful indifference.

Concur. Callous is right and misinformed.

 

[cwbullet]

Get a Narcan or don't. My recommendation is that you acquire one for your family or friends. Eventually, if changes are not made to reduce the supply, it will touch every family.

Regarding the negativity on my post, “You reap what you sow: Life is like a boomerang. Our thoughts, deeds and words return to us sooner or later, with astounding accuracy.” – Grant M. Bright

This thread has gotten out of control. Please keep it civil without insults and name-calling.

I can remember treating a baby who accidentally ate a pill. No one was a junkie. It was an accident. Objectifying the person with a name like "Junkie" does not help.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

If I'm honest, I don't choose to do either. I have worn out giving junkies additional chances to straighten themselves out only to train wreck again given the statistically proven high rate of relapse and my personal and close experience with several that ultimately died but only after making disasters out of their families creating heartache at every turn.

I would rather spend the resources helping those that didnt choose to put themselves in such a bad situation like funding Epi-pens to save folks that were by fate taking a risk when they step outside as well as the innocent folks that get exposed to garbage like fentanyl because of junkies and their poor decisions.

Plenty of “junkies“ were prescribed powerful narcotics for long periods by legitimate doctors for legitimate pain, did not abuse the drugs, and became addicted. Plenty of blame can go to pharmaceutical manufacturers who promoted narcotics like OxyContin as safer than they really were. Whatever the reason, there are plenty of addicts who fell into it through little or no fault of their own. Chronic pain can be extremely difficult to deal with. I recently lost a family member to what basically boils down to chronic, unmanaged, debilitating pain — there were struggles over pain medication, struggles over legitimate disability claims, struggles with poverty and the lack of healthcare resources that come with that, and struggles with mental health due to unending pain and hopelessness. Ultimately it led to suicide. Unfortunately, a number of veterans with painful physical war wounds end up on this path.

And there are the cases of people who thought they were buying a much more harmless recreational drug and got sold lethal doses on fentanyl instead. Maybe it wasn’t a great life choice, but it also wasn’t something you’d give a death sentence for either.

Hopefully all of us can receive compassion and kindness when we need it, which happens to all of us eventually. And hopefully it’s not contingent on whether we each deserve it or got ourselves into the situation through our own mistakes. Hopefully it’s based on our common humanity. Hopefully… but help doesn’t always come when needed. I imagine one of the things that might decrease a person’s chances of receiving that blessing would be if that person lived their life as a loud, judgemental jerk who wouldn’t consider extending kindness to others he deemed unworthy. Why would a person like that deserve it?

 

[Sandy H.]

When I read TheTank's post, I wasn't really offended. I think I should have been, but I wasn't. I think what he was getting at is that based on his experience the net sum would have been better for the kids if the person who was addicted went away. I imagine if things had gone differently in the experience he is aware of where the person who was saved turned their life around and made life better, then his opinion might be different. But, in the scenario he mentioned, the way I read it, I understand his take on the matter. I don't have to agree, but I understand his perspective. And I happen to agree, from my perspective and I think that sucks. I know that people in the medical industry are ethically not allowed to behave that way, but I'm not and I do feel bad for thinking that way.

I also agree with dhbarr's post. I think he is most correct and that is how I think we should be. But as a society I think we are not there right now and that is very bad. Instead, as a society, we focus on other things and the people who need help are closer to the bottom than the top of the list socially, which places the burden of help on a small group of individuals who likely don't have the right knowledge base to try to really help. I'm not saying to immediatly stop society and govern to fix the problem of addiction, but I'm also think we can do much more to help those who are struggling instead of accepting their demise as 'not my problem.'

Based on the intent of this topic, though, I see the disparity. I honestly have never heard of Narcan before this thread. I don't know anybody who does recreational drugs, so I just never heard of it. The only reason I know anything about Fentanyl is from a former co-worker who died - it isn't clear if it was suicide or accidental, but it is clear that the drug he was using was laced with Fentanyl. The knowledge that this drug is so potent and is in the general population unknown to many is frankly horrifying, so the recommendation to have access to Narcan seems a good thing to learn.

What a stupid place we've put ourselves in. People who don't do drugs or hang around with those who do need to have access to Narcan due to possible contact. . . while I've only been around 50-ish years, it seems that humans proactively try to destroy humannity and don't care about collateral damage. I'm embarassed for my species in general - not all of them, but as a species, we have made an overabundance of bad decisions.

 

[Hobie1dog]

What a stupid place we've put ourselves in. People who don't do drugs or hang around with those who do need to have access to Narcan due to possible contact. . . while I've only been around 50-ish years, it seems that humans proactively try to destroy humannity and don't care about collateral damage. I'm embarassed for my species in general - not all of them, but as a species, we have made an overabundance of bad decisions.

And it will never stop

 

[cwbullet]

What I am referring to is:







There are many more, and the numbers are increasing. I had used or been on site when Narcan has been used hundreds of times in the last ten years and never treated a junkie. I have only treated 1-2 drug addicts for overdose in 24 years. I think that was my initial point.

It takes such a small amount and every year, there is enough produced and smuggled to kill the entire US over and over. This drug is the only thing we had to help currently.

 

[Donnager]

Back a hundred years ago, when I was interviewing for post college jobs, one of the opportunities was with Merck. The reactor was the size of a kitchen kettle, and made enough material to supply their needs for months.

I've worked with Pure H2S, and have dealt with HCN and phosgene, among phenol, cresols, and a few CWC precursors. The unreal hazards at a pharmaceutical plant gave me pause, and still does.

Some of these chemicals are really, really dangerous, and that's when they are handled in a controlled environment.

There have to be folks dying from exposure to fentanyl all over the world. I'm shocked that the cheap manufacturers aren't having fatalities often enough to be a problem.

 

[cwbullet]

I'm shocked that the cheap manufacturers aren't having fatalities often enough to be a problem.

Reportedly they are, but then again, Cops and Medics do not wear MOPP4 or chemical suits when making an arrest or treating a patient.

 

[Donnager]

Reportedly they are, but then again, Cops and Medics do not wear MOPP4 or chemical suits when making an arrest or treating a patient.

That is a problem. If I was unclear, I am surprised there aren't large numbers of fatalities at any and all fentanyl manufacturing locations, unless they have pharmaceutical style controls.

I suppose they are overseas, and we will hear nothing, or at least, very little.

 

[Banzai88]

I suppose they are overseas, and we will hear nothing, or at least, very little.

China/Mexico, then smuggled over the southern border. So.....NO, we won't hear anything because it's done illicitly in plain sight, and there is no political will to stem the flow.

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/f...8-20 Fentanyl Flow in the United States_0.pdf

 

[cwbullet]

That is a problem. If I was unclear, I am surprised there aren't large numbers of fatalities at any and all fentanyl manufacturing locations, unless they have pharmaceutical style controls.

I suppose they are overseas, and we will hear nothing, or at least, very little.

The majority of them are reportedly in Mexico and Central America. I am sure they happen and we do not hear about them.

You and I can't do much to fix that but if we start carrying Narcan, we can protect of friends and family.

 

[Donnager]

The majority of them are reportedly in Mexico and Central America. I am sure they happen and we do not hear about them.

You and I can't do much to fix that but if we start carrying Narcan, we can protect of friends and family.

Agreed.

 

[Rob Campbell]

For much of the Dunning-Kruger faction a tourniquet around the neck will do no damage. Loosen every fifteen minutes to permit blood flow to the eyeballs, muscles, bone, and tendons. With only five working neurons, the brain doesn't need it.

[It's a joke, son, it's a joke]

I'll write that down, in case I ever attend a flat Earth conference.

 

[Rob Campbell]

Reportedly they are, but then again, Cops and Medics do not wear MOPP4 or chemical suits when making an arrest or treating a patient.

Can you imagine wearing MOPP4 in Florida during July and August.