Estes Saturn V 1:200

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

gtg738w

FlightSketch - flightsketch.com
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
200
Reaction score
133
Not much of a build thread but this is pretty cool! Right out of the box, seems pretty sturdy so far, the plastic body is thicker than I expected. Can't wait to see how it flies!


full.jpgbase.jpg fc.jpg nc.jpg
 

CochiseSciGuy

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
10
Reaction score
8
Looks great! Can't wait to get my hands on one. Really excited to hear how it flew.
 

BEC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
3,015
Reaction score
198
Location
Auburn, WA
That looks pretty cool, Russ. Gonna stick an FS Mini up inside S-IVB? :)
 

gtg738w

FlightSketch - flightsketch.com
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
200
Reaction score
133
That looks pretty cool, Russ. Gonna stick an FS Mini up inside S-IVB? :)
Of course! I don’t think it will even notice. I’m thinking about making an orange and white ‘chute for it too.
 

gtg738w

FlightSketch - flightsketch.com
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
200
Reaction score
133
It’s an 18mm mount. Estes says C6-3, I have some Quest C12s on order to try as well.
 

BEC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
3,015
Reaction score
198
Location
Auburn, WA
I have two on order from AC Supply (as I think I’ve mentioned before). Q-Jet C12-4 is where I’m planning to go with it. Then D16-4.
 

ToneDeafJunior

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 12, 2017
Messages
181
Reaction score
63
Location
Folly Beach SC
Do you all think it's under powered with the 18mm motor? I'd think that most people would be just using the Estes motors. Do you think you could you do some 'configurin' to get a 24mm in there?
 

ThirstyBarbarian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
8,127
Reaction score
591
I have some Aerotech D10-5 motors I’m going to try when mine comes in tomorrow.
 

EvryThngIsAOk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
124
Reaction score
29
Launched one of mine yesterday with first the recommended c6-3 Estes motor then the Q-jet c12-4 planned to follow up with the Q-jet d16-4.
Clear day ambient temperature 81 degrees, humidity 61% light winds.

1. Estes C6-4 Alt 175’ (per onboard altimeter) slight roll off pad. Ejection appeared to come after apogee recovered 25’ from launch site.
2 Q-jet c-12-4 Alt 585 slim roll off pad tracked to south. Ejection before apogee recovered down wind 200 yards from pad.
Did not attempt d-16 as winds picked up and didn’t feel like losing rocket on first day .
 
Last edited:

BEC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
3,015
Reaction score
198
Location
Auburn, WA
Hmmmmmm....so maybe if I get to the D16 with mine (they’re supposed to be here tomorrow) I’ll want the -6.

What altimeter did you use, just out of curiosity?
 

gtg738w

FlightSketch - flightsketch.com
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
200
Reaction score
133
Sadly, our club launch was rained out last weekend so I still haven't gotten to fly yet.

I'm picking up a couple more cases on Monday and might pull another one to try a 24mm conversion. It looks like it would be easy but you never know for sure until you get it open!
 

EvryThngIsAOk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
124
Reaction score
29
Hmmmmmm....so maybe if I get to the D16 with mine (they’re supposed to be here tomorrow) I’ll want the -6.

What altimeter did you use, just out of curiosity?
I used a Jolly Logic 1
 

BEC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
3,015
Reaction score
198
Location
Auburn, WA
I got my two from AC Supply today.

I can't see reworking the motor mount (there is no tube, per se, just the aft sleeve for the screw-on retainer which also holds on the flight fin unit on and a boss or ring that the forward end of the motor fits into), motor retention and clear fin unit to get a C11 or D12 in it. MUCH simpler to just get some Q-Jet Cs or Ds.

I checked - Q-Jet Cs/Ds fit with no issues. The Aerotech D10/D21 fit snugly....but based on prior experience flying these in a model with a plastic motor mount you might only get one flight before the motor mount is damaged as their cases are really hot post-flight. An 18/20 RMS case fits also, but the screw-on retainer can't quite snug down enough to hold the fin unit tightly. Not sure about trying that either.

I'll be flying mine primarily on Q-Jets as I expected, though I may try the recommended Estes C6-3 once.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
8,127
Reaction score
591
Mine came today. I think it’s a pretty cool model and probably the nicest RTF rocket I’ve ever seen. The shock cord is the wimpy Estes rubber band, and it comes with a standard Estes purple and white plastic chute. I’d like to upgrade both of those.

Launched one of mine yesterday with first the recommended c6-3 Estes motor then the Q-jet c12-4 planned to follow up with the Q-jet d16-4.
Clear day ambient temperature 81 degrees, humidity 61% light winds.

1. Estes C6-4 Alt 175’ (per onboard altimeter) slight roll off pad. Ejection appeared to come after apogee recovered 25’ from launch site.
2 Q-jet c-12-4 Alt 585 slim roll off pad tracked to south. Ejection before apogee recovered down wind 200 yards from pad.
Did not attempt d-16 as winds picked up and didn’t feel like losing rocket on first day .
I’m surprised the C12-4 went so much higher than the C6-3 — more than 3 times as high. I’m not really sure I want this model going all that high, but the C6-3 seems too low. I have some D10-5 motors, and I’m wondering now if that’s a bit more impulse than I really want.

I got my two from AC Supply today.

I can't see reworking the motor mount (there is no tube, per se, just the aft sleeve for the screw-on retainer which also holds on the flight fin unit on and a boss or ring that the forward end of the motor fits into), motor retention and clear fin unit to get a C11 or D12 in it. MUCH simpler to just get some Q-Jet Cs or Ds.

I checked - Q-Jet Cs/Ds fit with no issues. The Aerotech D10/D21 fit snugly....but based on prior experience flying these in a model with a plastic motor mount you might only get one flight before the motor mount is damaged as their cases are really hot post-flight. An 18/20 RMS case fits also, but the screw-on retainer can't quite snug down enough to hold the fin unit tightly. Not sure about trying that either.

I'll be flying mine primarily on Q-Jets as I expected, though I may try the recommended Estes C6-3 once.
I agree that converting this for 24mm would be a lot of work and probably not worth it.

Do you really think the D10 would damage the plastic motor mount? I bought some D10-5 motors specifically to use with this model, but I’ve never flown one before, and I don’t want to damage the rocket. Do they really get hot enough to cause damage?
 

BEC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
3,015
Reaction score
198
Location
Auburn, WA
Mine came today. I think it’s a pretty cool model and probably the nicest RTF rocket I’ve ever seen. The shock cord is the wimpy Estes rubber band, and it comes with a standard Estes purple and white plastic chute. I’d like to upgrade both of those.
Mine (at least the one I’ve opened) has the blue/white ‘chute (15 inches? - or do I have that backward and the blue/white is 18 and the purple/white is 15?). I’ll use the regular shock cord at least for now. I agree that it’s the nicest RTF I’ve ever seen - by a large margin.

I’m surprised the C12-4 went so much higher than the C6-3 — more than 3 times as high. I’m not really sure I want this model going all that high, but the C6-3 seems too low. I have some D10-5 motors, and I’m wondering now if that’s a bit more impulse than I really want.
While I have seen satisfying performance improvements in models using Q-Jet C12s in place of Estes C6s those numbers don’t seem right to me either, even though the Q-Jet comes to a pretty good thrust level very quickly and it increases as the burn goes on. But the RTF S-V is heavier than most things I’ve flown on Q-Jet Cs so far so maybe it just coasts well. Based on my current Q-Jet experience I would’ve expected more like 250-300 feet if the C6-3 takes it to 175 (which is a very plausible value).

That’s partly why I asked what altimeter he used. I’m looking at the model and trying to figure out what I will do for static ports to fly some kind of altimeter or if I’m just going to hope that since the upper section doesn’t fit tightly that there will be enough leakage to get a reasonable apogee reading.

Do you really think the D10 would damage the plastic motor mount? I bought some D10-5 motors specifically to use with this model, but I’ve never flown one before, and I don’t want to damage the rocket. Do they really get hot enough to cause damage?
I don’t have a lot of experience here but I did fly an RTF Sizzler on a D10 a few years ago. This is a short BT-60-based RTF that uses the twist-on fin unit for motor retention (also seen on the Estes crayon rockets among other things). After the flight the tabs that retained the fin unit and the cylindrical section through which the motor passed were melted enough to where I had to do some work with a heat gun to return the model to flight status. The 2160 Saturn V has mostly air around the motor, with just that fairly small ring at the forward end that the top of the motor fits into (snugly in the case of a D10) and the portion that includes the screw-on retainer. I would be worried about melting there based on that one experience, yes.

A D10 is a full D (very close to 20 N-s) but Q-Jet D16 is about 13 N-s, for whatever that’s worth. A Q-Jet C is about 1 N-s more than an Estes C6, but the energy is delivered much more quickly.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
8,127
Reaction score
591
Mine (at least the one I’ve opened) has the blue/white ‘chute (15 inches? - or do I have that backward and the blue/white is 18 and the purple/white is 15?). I’ll use the regular shock cord at least for now. I agree that it’s the nicest RTF I’ve ever seen - by a large margin.



While I have seen satisfying performance improvements in models using Q-Jet C12s in place of Estes C6s those numbers don’t seem right to me either, even though the Q-Jet comes to a pretty good thrust level very quickly and it increases as the burn goes on. But the RTF S-V is heavier than most things I’ve flown on Q-Jet Cs so far so maybe it just coasts well. Based on my current Q-Jet experience I would’ve expected more like 250-300 feet if the C6-3 takes it to 175 (which is a very plausible value).

That’s partly why I asked what altimeter he used. I’m looking at the model and trying to figure out what I will do for static ports to fly some kind of altimeter or if I’m just going to hope that since the upper section doesn’t fit tightly that there will be enough leakage to get a reasonable apogee reading.



I don’t have a lot of experience here but I did fly an RTF Sizzler on a D10 a few years ago. This is a short BT-60-based RTF that uses the twist-on fin unit for motor retention (also seen on the Estes crayon rockets among other things). After the flight the tabs that retained the fin unit and the cylindrical section through which the motor passed were melted enough to where I had to do some work with a heat gun to return the model to flight status. The 2160 Saturn V has mostly air around the motor, with just that fairly small ring at the forward end that the top of the motor fits into (snugly in the case of a D10) and the portion that includes the screw-on retainer. I would be worried about melting there based on that one experience, yes.

A D10 is a full D (very close to 20 N-s) but Q-Jet D16 is about 13 N-s, for whatever that’s worth. A Q-Jet C is about 1 N-s more than an Estes C6, but the energy is delivered much more quickly.
Thanks for the info. I like this model, and it was expensive enough, I don’t really want to damage it. And even though it is a Saturn V, I don’t really want to send it to the moon! I’ll try the Estes and Qjets before popping the D10 in and maybe test the D10 for temperature first in a different rocket.
 

amiliv

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
84
Reaction score
24
Got mine this week too. Hopefully not the only one to make a model of it in OpenRocket and sim with everything that'd fit in 18mm mount ;-)

Still need to adjust design a bit, OpenRocket sims it some 100' higher than Estes estimated on the box. But delay estimate is about right.
 

Nytrunner

Pop lugs, not drugs
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
6,388
Reaction score
1,813
Location
Huntsville AL
Sticking the altimeter in there may be a bit of a burden for the C6-3. As noted above, it's a heavy model.

D10's can blister and distort on the outside of the case which also may cause deflection or strain when pulling them out.
(Source: I have one on my shelf at work and am looking at the rumples right where the grain slot was) For what it's worth, the top end is the least distorted since that's protected by the delay element.
 

BEC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
3,015
Reaction score
198
Location
Auburn, WA
Sticking the altimeter in there may be a bit of a burden for the C6-3. As noted above, it's a heavy model.
Perhaps. A current-generation AlimeterOne weighs 0.35 ounce. A first generation unit is lighter at 0.24 ounce. I'll probably use something a little smaller—likely a FireFly or the beta FlightSketch Mini—in mine.

I’ve never seen a blistered or bubbled D10 or D21 case after a flight. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
 
Last edited:

EvryThngIsAOk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
124
Reaction score
29
I was surprised the q jet made this much difffernence as well.
Really didn’t expect that much of a difference. Did not try the c6 again as it just seemed it struggled
 
Last edited:

amiliv

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
84
Reaction score
24
My OpenRocket work-in-progress. The numbers don't match anything reported above, so it likely need bunch of adjustments to the model. It oversimmed for C6, undersimmed for C12. Probably adding a transition to the bottom to simulate additional drag of 4 motor covers sticking on the sides. Or something.
 

Attachments

BEC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
3,015
Reaction score
198
Location
Auburn, WA
The weight, by the way, for the example I opened is 4.90 ounces in flying configuration. The clear plastic fin unit is 0.4 ounces of that. I did add a swivel on the parachute attachment. The swivel is 0.03 ounce.
 

GlenP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
1,738
Reaction score
200
Mine is also 4.9 oz with a snap swivel, no wadding, no engine. Here is how it stacks up next to some other popular rockets for comparison...

DSC_8384.jpg
 

GlenP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
1,738
Reaction score
200
I never can leave it alone, so I thought I would test my hand-eye coordination with a fine-tip Sharpie, more a test of my vision with reading glasses. Maybe some one could take this idea and do better. Not sure if a printed decal would lie flat over the ridges on the tower. Just an attempt here to make the tower look like a tower by coloring in the negative spaces between the struts, kind of like how the Zooch tower is printed on cardstock, you know?

DSC_8385 (1).jpg
DSC_8386.jpg
 

GlenP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
1,738
Reaction score
200
I just got a really cool thick walled body tube, about 2-3/16" dia by 10-3/4" from Estes today, FREE. I just can't wait to turn this into some cool scratch build, maybe 24mm motor mount ... hmm...

Oh, yeah it came with some poster inside:
https://estesrockets.com/saturnv-offer/
 
Last edited:

Alan15578

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
262
Reaction score
53
I was surprised the q jet made this much difffernence as well.
Really didn’t expect that much of a difference. Did not try the c6 again as it just seemed it struggled
I think Estes REALLY needs something to compete with the Qjet c and D motors. Something like the old Cox D8-3.
 

Scott_650

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
454
Reaction score
100
I think Estes REALLY needs something to compete with the Qjet c and D motors. Something like the old Cox D8-3.
Reference the Rocketry Show’s interview with Langford and Stine - they mentioned the possibility of BP motors with more power - something along the line that the current motors don’t put out as much power as the specs for each destination allows but they’ve done research about building higher spec motors...so maybe we’ll see higher power C/D/E/F motors from Estes.
 
2
Top