Estes Saturn V 1:200

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by gtg738w, Apr 11, 2019.

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  1. Apr 11, 2019 #1

    gtg738w

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    Not much of a build thread but this is pretty cool! Right out of the box, seems pretty sturdy so far, the plastic body is thicker than I expected. Can't wait to see how it flies!


    full.jpg base.jpg fc.jpg nc.jpg
     
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  2. Apr 11, 2019 #2

    CochiseSciGuy

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    Looks great! Can't wait to get my hands on one. Really excited to hear how it flew.
     
  3. Apr 11, 2019 #3

    BEC

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    That looks pretty cool, Russ. Gonna stick an FS Mini up inside S-IVB? :)
     
  4. Apr 12, 2019 #4

    gtg738w

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    Of course! I don’t think it will even notice. I’m thinking about making an orange and white ‘chute for it too.
     
  5. Apr 12, 2019 #5

    Crawf56

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    What motor?
     
  6. Apr 12, 2019 #6

    gtg738w

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    It’s an 18mm mount. Estes says C6-3, I have some Quest C12s on order to try as well.
     
  7. Apr 12, 2019 #7

    BEC

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    I have two on order from AC Supply (as I think I’ve mentioned before). Q-Jet C12-4 is where I’m planning to go with it. Then D16-4.
     
  8. Apr 22, 2019 #8
  9. Apr 23, 2019 #9

    ToneDeafJunior

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    Do you all think it's under powered with the 18mm motor? I'd think that most people would be just using the Estes motors. Do you think you could you do some 'configurin' to get a 24mm in there?
     
  10. Apr 23, 2019 #10

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    I have some Aerotech D10-5 motors I’m going to try when mine comes in tomorrow.
     
  11. Apr 23, 2019 #11

    EvryThngIsAOk

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    Launched one of mine yesterday with first the recommended c6-3 Estes motor then the Q-jet c12-4 planned to follow up with the Q-jet d16-4.
    Clear day ambient temperature 81 degrees, humidity 61% light winds.

    1. Estes C6-4 Alt 175’ (per onboard altimeter) slight roll off pad. Ejection appeared to come after apogee recovered 25’ from launch site.
    2 Q-jet c-12-4 Alt 585 slim roll off pad tracked to south. Ejection before apogee recovered down wind 200 yards from pad.
    Did not attempt d-16 as winds picked up and didn’t feel like losing rocket on first day .
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  12. Apr 23, 2019 #12

    BEC

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    Hmmmmmm....so maybe if I get to the D16 with mine (they’re supposed to be here tomorrow) I’ll want the -6.

    What altimeter did you use, just out of curiosity?
     
  13. Apr 23, 2019 #13

    shreadvector

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  14. Apr 23, 2019 #14

    gtg738w

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    Sadly, our club launch was rained out last weekend so I still haven't gotten to fly yet.

    I'm picking up a couple more cases on Monday and might pull another one to try a 24mm conversion. It looks like it would be easy but you never know for sure until you get it open!
     
  15. Apr 24, 2019 #15

    EvryThngIsAOk

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    I used a Jolly Logic 1
     
  16. Apr 24, 2019 #16

    BEC

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    I got my two from AC Supply today.

    I can't see reworking the motor mount (there is no tube, per se, just the aft sleeve for the screw-on retainer which also holds on the flight fin unit on and a boss or ring that the forward end of the motor fits into), motor retention and clear fin unit to get a C11 or D12 in it. MUCH simpler to just get some Q-Jet Cs or Ds.

    I checked - Q-Jet Cs/Ds fit with no issues. The Aerotech D10/D21 fit snugly....but based on prior experience flying these in a model with a plastic motor mount you might only get one flight before the motor mount is damaged as their cases are really hot post-flight. An 18/20 RMS case fits also, but the screw-on retainer can't quite snug down enough to hold the fin unit tightly. Not sure about trying that either.

    I'll be flying mine primarily on Q-Jets as I expected, though I may try the recommended Estes C6-3 once.
     
  17. Apr 24, 2019 #17

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    Mine came today. I think it’s a pretty cool model and probably the nicest RTF rocket I’ve ever seen. The shock cord is the wimpy Estes rubber band, and it comes with a standard Estes purple and white plastic chute. I’d like to upgrade both of those.

    I’m surprised the C12-4 went so much higher than the C6-3 — more than 3 times as high. I’m not really sure I want this model going all that high, but the C6-3 seems too low. I have some D10-5 motors, and I’m wondering now if that’s a bit more impulse than I really want.

    I agree that converting this for 24mm would be a lot of work and probably not worth it.

    Do you really think the D10 would damage the plastic motor mount? I bought some D10-5 motors specifically to use with this model, but I’ve never flown one before, and I don’t want to damage the rocket. Do they really get hot enough to cause damage?
     
  18. Apr 24, 2019 #18

    BEC

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    Mine (at least the one I’ve opened) has the blue/white ‘chute (15 inches? - or do I have that backward and the blue/white is 18 and the purple/white is 15?). I’ll use the regular shock cord at least for now. I agree that it’s the nicest RTF I’ve ever seen - by a large margin.

    While I have seen satisfying performance improvements in models using Q-Jet C12s in place of Estes C6s those numbers don’t seem right to me either, even though the Q-Jet comes to a pretty good thrust level very quickly and it increases as the burn goes on. But the RTF S-V is heavier than most things I’ve flown on Q-Jet Cs so far so maybe it just coasts well. Based on my current Q-Jet experience I would’ve expected more like 250-300 feet if the C6-3 takes it to 175 (which is a very plausible value).

    That’s partly why I asked what altimeter he used. I’m looking at the model and trying to figure out what I will do for static ports to fly some kind of altimeter or if I’m just going to hope that since the upper section doesn’t fit tightly that there will be enough leakage to get a reasonable apogee reading.

    I don’t have a lot of experience here but I did fly an RTF Sizzler on a D10 a few years ago. This is a short BT-60-based RTF that uses the twist-on fin unit for motor retention (also seen on the Estes crayon rockets among other things). After the flight the tabs that retained the fin unit and the cylindrical section through which the motor passed were melted enough to where I had to do some work with a heat gun to return the model to flight status. The 2160 Saturn V has mostly air around the motor, with just that fairly small ring at the forward end that the top of the motor fits into (snugly in the case of a D10) and the portion that includes the screw-on retainer. I would be worried about melting there based on that one experience, yes.

    A D10 is a full D (very close to 20 N-s) but Q-Jet D16 is about 13 N-s, for whatever that’s worth. A Q-Jet C is about 1 N-s more than an Estes C6, but the energy is delivered much more quickly.
     
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  19. Apr 24, 2019 #19

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    Thanks for the info. I like this model, and it was expensive enough, I don’t really want to damage it. And even though it is a Saturn V, I don’t really want to send it to the moon! I’ll try the Estes and Qjets before popping the D10 in and maybe test the D10 for temperature first in a different rocket.
     
  20. Apr 24, 2019 #20

    amiliv

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    Got mine this week too. Hopefully not the only one to make a model of it in OpenRocket and sim with everything that'd fit in 18mm mount ;-)

    Still need to adjust design a bit, OpenRocket sims it some 100' higher than Estes estimated on the box. But delay estimate is about right.
     
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  21. Apr 24, 2019 #21

    Nytrunner

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    Sticking the altimeter in there may be a bit of a burden for the C6-3. As noted above, it's a heavy model.

    D10's can blister and distort on the outside of the case which also may cause deflection or strain when pulling them out.
    (Source: I have one on my shelf at work and am looking at the rumples right where the grain slot was) For what it's worth, the top end is the least distorted since that's protected by the delay element.
     
  22. Apr 25, 2019 #22

    BEC

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    Perhaps. A current-generation AlimeterOne weighs 0.35 ounce. A first generation unit is lighter at 0.24 ounce. I'll probably use something a little smaller—likely a FireFly or the beta FlightSketch Mini—in mine.

    I’ve never seen a blistered or bubbled D10 or D21 case after a flight. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  23. Apr 25, 2019 #23

    EvryThngIsAOk

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    I was surprised the q jet made this much difffernence as well.
    Really didn’t expect that much of a difference. Did not try the c6 again as it just seemed it struggled
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
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  24. Apr 25, 2019 #24

    amiliv

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    My OpenRocket work-in-progress. The numbers don't match anything reported above, so it likely need bunch of adjustments to the model. It oversimmed for C6, undersimmed for C12. Probably adding a transition to the bottom to simulate additional drag of 4 motor covers sticking on the sides. Or something.
     

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  25. Apr 25, 2019 #25

    BEC

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    The weight, by the way, for the example I opened is 4.90 ounces in flying configuration. The clear plastic fin unit is 0.4 ounces of that. I did add a swivel on the parachute attachment. The swivel is 0.03 ounce.
     
  26. Apr 26, 2019 #26

    GlenP

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    Mine is also 4.9 oz with a snap swivel, no wadding, no engine. Here is how it stacks up next to some other popular rockets for comparison...

    DSC_8384.jpg
     
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  27. Apr 26, 2019 #27

    GlenP

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    I never can leave it alone, so I thought I would test my hand-eye coordination with a fine-tip Sharpie, more a test of my vision with reading glasses. Maybe some one could take this idea and do better. Not sure if a printed decal would lie flat over the ridges on the tower. Just an attempt here to make the tower look like a tower by coloring in the negative spaces between the struts, kind of like how the Zooch tower is printed on cardstock, you know?

    DSC_8385 (1).jpg DSC_8386.jpg
     
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  28. Apr 28, 2019 #28

    GlenP

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    I just got a really cool thick walled body tube, about 2-3/16" dia by 10-3/4" from Estes today, FREE. I just can't wait to turn this into some cool scratch build, maybe 24mm motor mount ... hmm...

    Oh, yeah it came with some poster inside:
    https://estesrockets.com/saturnv-offer/
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  29. Apr 28, 2019 #29

    Alan15578

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    I think Estes REALLY needs something to compete with the Qjet c and D motors. Something like the old Cox D8-3.
     
  30. Apr 28, 2019 #30

    Scott_650

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    Reference the Rocketry Show’s interview with Langford and Stine - they mentioned the possibility of BP motors with more power - something along the line that the current motors don’t put out as much power as the specs for each destination allows but they’ve done research about building higher spec motors...so maybe we’ll see higher power C/D/E/F motors from Estes.
     

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