Estes Canadian Arrow #2188 build (rebuild) with modifications.

[Back_at_it]

With the LOC Photon build completed and the bench cleared it's time for something new. At some point in one of the collections I purchased there was a left over nose and tail cone from what a I believe was a either a V2, Canadian Arrow or Silver Comet. it's clear that these parts were used as there was plastic glue all over them and the slots for the fins look like someone took a hatchet to them. Thankfully model cement doesn't stick to this plastic so I was able to just flake the glue off.

Lets be clear. I didn't cut these slots

So, with nothing more than a nose and tail cone, I decided I wanted to build a Canadian Arrow. I've built countless V2's but never one of these.

Part list from Left to right.
BT80 Coupler. This is cut to 10.50 inches. Leaving one inch up top for the nose cone shoulder and a half inch at the bottom for the fin can.
BT80 Body tube. 12 inches. Not sure where got these but they are very soft and require coupler.
BT50H Motor tube. 11 inches long.
Lower Fin Can. Cleaned this up as best I can and it looks decent enough.
BT50/80 plywood centering ring.
BT50/55 Centering ring. This one has the outer diameter reduced until it inside the tail of the fin can.
BT20/50 Motor Block.
Estes 24mm Motor retainer.
500# Kevlar Line.
Estes NC-80K Nose Cone.
Hand cut fins from 1/8" Basswood.



Started with the motor mount. Not shown. Inserted the motor block into the motor mount 3.50" to allow use of Estes E motors. Next I sanded the motor tube where the fins and motor retainer will attach. Using the motor retainer as a spacer I determined where the lower centering ring needs to attach. The location was marked on the tube.

The lower ring was glued in place with BSI 30 mins Epoxy.



Next it was time to insert the coupler into the tube. Normally I'd use regular old TBII for this but I've recently learned that Epoxy makes a great way to strengthen the body tubes to prevent zippering so I went ahead and mixed up a batch. The epoxy was spread around the inside to the body tube and smeared in various areas around the outside of the coupler as well. The coupler was inserted from the bottom and pushed into place. The coupler was located using the tail cone as a spacer.




A fair amount of epoxy was pushed forward when the coupler slid in. This epoxy was spread around the upper part of the body tube for additional strength. After smoothing it out I used a heat gun to make the epoxy a bit thinner. This allowed the tubes soak up the majority of the Epoxy. After about 3 mins. I used a paper towel that was slightly damp with Rubbing Alcohol to wipe away the remainder. After letting this cure, the once thin body tube feels almost as rigid and plastic.

 

[Back_at_it]

Only had time to do a couple of things last night.

Starting with the tail cone. I washed then wet sanded the entire tail cone with 400 grit to clean it up and give it some surface for the paint. I then went back and roughed up the areas where the fins will attach with 100 grit. The inside of the cone was also sanded with 100 grit near the fin slots and near the bottom where the rear ring will sit.

Next I prepared the motor tube. The upper ring was temporarily put in place to keep the motor tube centered. The ring will be removed later so I used tape to hold it in place.

Using BSI 30 min epoxy, The motor tube was set in place and allowed to cure.



Next the motor retainer was glued in place with more epoxy and allowed to cure.

 

[Back_at_it]

Last night was fitting the first fin to the tail cone. Since we are doing balsa to plastic I'm going to be using BSI Epoxy for pretty much the remainder of this build.

With the motor tube cured in the tail cone, I moved the upper centering ring. The ring was sitting flush with the top of the tail cone to keep it centered but I now need to get it out of the way while I install the fins. The ring will still be needed to keep the tube centered for at least the first fin install. After that the motor tube won't be able to move. I slid the upper ring up the motor tube and used a couple of tape to keep it in place.



Next it was time to install the first fin. A fair bit of sanding was needed on the slots to make them straighter and the Basswood I'm using is slightly thicker than stock. Epoxy was used on the root edge where the fin contacts the motor tube and outer tail cone. A small amount was placed on the sides of the tabs as well and the fin was inserted.



With the fin attached I waited about 5 mins for the epoxy to begin to set then placed the tail cone with fin attached into the body tube. The idea here is that inserting it into the body will keep the motor tube straight while the first fin cures.



I should have some free time between meetings today to get the remainder of the fins attached.

 

[Scott_650]

I’ve been trying to get motivated and build something, this is definitely an inspiration! I’ve had an Estes V-2 kit on hand for years - the first kit my wife ever bought me and I have a set of Stickershock vinyl for it - so it’d be nice to get it built.

FYI that’s not a Comet nose cone - that cone had molded rivet, hatch and cockpit window details. I bought a Comet nose cone from a YORF member so maybe I’ll do a parallel V-2 build and a scratch build with the Comet cone.

Couple of nice points about modeling the Estes version of the Arrow - the extra length helps with stability and the instructions (available on the Estes site) have a masking layout and a picture of the decals.

 

[KenECoyote]

Great job so far!

I love the Canadian Arrow and plan to modify a LOC 7.5" V2 into a possible L3 attempt.

 

[jmasterj]

Looks great!

One concern - is the retainer cap going to screw far enough down before hitting the fins?

 

[Scott_650]

Looks great!

One concern - is the retainer cap going to screw far enough down before hitting the fins?

Other V-2 builds using the Estes retainer showed the screw on portion being sanded smooth/smaller for clearance - looks like there’s plenty of material in the part.

 

[Back_at_it]

Looks great!

One concern - is the retainer cap going to screw far enough down before hitting the fins?

I will need to sand the cap smooth to get it to fit. During mock up it is only the ribs on the cap that are an issue. It will be tight but it will fit.

 

[Back_at_it]

I’ve been trying to get motivated and build something, this is definitely an inspiration! I’ve had an Estes V-2 kit on hand for years - the first kit my wife ever bought me and I have a set of Stickershock vinyl for it - so it’d be nice to get it built.

I Understand completely. After getting my lvl 1 last fall I took a break and walked away for building and rockets completely for about 6 weeks. After planning out what I wanted to build this year and putting some parts together and back to building.

This year I'm going to be doing more mid-power stuff and I really want to build some of the oddball kits. I'm putting plans together for a Space Station Aquarius, and recently found an SDI Satellite and parts for the Star Raider, Galactic Taxi and Orion. I feel like this year is going to be a bit different than my last few years in the hobby.

 

[Cape Byron]

Great job so far!

I love the Canadian Arrow and plan to modify a LOC 7.5" V2 into a possible L3 attempt.

Related question: What % longer (taller?) than the V-2 is the Canadian Arrow? I have a Spacemonkey kit that I'd like to build as an Arrow and @BigMacDaddy 's BT-60 V-2 might make a nice Arrow as well.

 

[Scott_650]

Related question: What % longer (taller?) than the V-2 is the Canadian Arrow? I have a Spacemonkey kit that I'd like to build as an Arrow and @BigMacDaddy 's BT-60 V-2 might make a nice Arrow as well.

The “standard” V-2 (there were production variations and lots of variations amongst the V-2s assembled and modded by the US, UK and USSR) was 14 meters tall, the CA was 16.5 meters tall - so slightly under 1 caliber longer, which makes the CA about the size of the Air Force’s extended Project Blossom rounds but shorter than the Russian’s improved and lengthened S-2.

 

[Cape Byron]

The “standard” V-2 (there were production variations and lots of variations amongst the V-2s assembled and modded by the US, UK and USSR) was 14 meters tall, the CA was 16.5 meters tall - so slightly under 1 caliber longer, which makes the CA about the size of the Air Force’s extended Project Blossom rounds but shorter than the Russian’s improved and lengthened S-2.

Thank you!

 

[BigMacDaddy]

I'm curious if there is any performance difference of slotting fins mid-fin vs. slotting them on the outside extremes / edges (like you have done here).

I have done both depending on some design constraints -- like a motor mount being in the way or wanting to slot into boat tail as well as body tube or something else.

Just curious what you and others think about two tabs on ends of fin vs one longer mid-fin tab.

 

[Back_at_it]

I'm curious if there is any performance difference of slotting fins mid-fin vs. slotting them on the outside extremes / edges (like you have done here).

I have done both depending on some design constraints -- like a motor mount being in the way or wanting to slot into boat tail as well as body tube or something else.

Just curious what you and others think about two tabs on ends of fin vs one longer mid-fin tab.

I don't feel like there are any performance difference. I cut fins with those tabs to fit the slots that are in the V2 tail cone. If you look at an uncut version you can see the raised areas that need to be removed for the fins to it. I'm thinking Estes did this to retain some rigidity in the tail cone. I don't think it would make any difference one way or the other if these were full length tabs.

 

[Back_at_it]

Back with an update. I finished up installing the fins. Took a little custom fitting to get each fin exactly how I wanted it due to the slots being off but in the end it wasn't bad.



Next came the fun messy part. I added internal fillets using epoxy to the inside of the fin can. There was no easy, neat way to do this. It was just a matter of using a long dowel to get all the way to the lower tabs. In this pic you can see how poor of shape this tail cone actually was.



After the fin fillets were cured I attached the upper centering ring with TBII and let that dry. I added an additional BT50/55 centering ring under the main ring for a little extra support and to help keep the upper ring square.



Next came the Kevlar leader for the shock cord. A knot was tied in one end and it was threaded through a hole in the ring. Note that a scrap of ply was glued in place to give the mounting point a little extra strength. The knot was covered in TBII and allowed to dry. The first few inches of the Kevlar was covered in heat shrink for some additional heat protection.



Finally the tail cone and the main body were connected. I used TBII to connect the upper centering ring. It was spread around the inside of the tube where the upper ring will sit. The tail cone was attached using BSI 30 mins epoxy. Epoxy was spread inside the lower body tube and on the outside of the shoulder of the tail cone. Excess was wiped away with a towel and a little rubbing alcohol.

 

[Back_at_it]

Got back to the build over the weekend. Added 3/16" launch lugs. The lower lug is mounted even with the rear of the body tube. The lug is 2" in length. The upper lug is mounted 9" from the rear of the body tube and is 1.25" in length.

In this pic you can see that I test fit the motor retainer cap and to my surprise it fits without any modification. I expected to need to remove the ribs but it fits just fine.




Next up it was time for the fin fillets. I covered the threads for the motor retainer to prevent getting any epoxy on them. I then mixed up batches of BSI 30 min. and added fillets two at a time. These laid down very smoothly with just a little heat from the heat gun. I'm very happy with the results.



Here is the first look at the assembled rocket. I still need to add the recovery gear but at this point it's complete enough to begin the finish work.



Began the process with DAP brand wood filler. The fins were very smooth so I applied a very lite coat of filler. The joint between the body tube and tail cone was also filled. For now I'm going to hold off on filling the spirals. These body tubes are not the best quality and they tend to get fuzzy if you look at them the wrong way. I'm going to wait until I can get a coat of primer on the body to fill them. They are very shallow so I'm hoping they will fill with the primer only.




Unfortunately I feel like this project is going to stall here for a little while as the current weather here is 9F and predicting snow today. Doesn't look like we're going to be above freezing for at least a week

Might have to start building something else in the meantime. There is a Nano Magg screaming my name

 

[Back_at_it]

FINALLY!!!! The weather cooperated enough that I could get some primer and paint on this build.

While waiting on the weather I did one more coat of filler on the joint between the tail cone and body tube and rough sanded that down with 320 grit. Next sprayed on two coats of SEM high build primer. This is where the SWM really shines. It was completely dry in 2 hrs even in 60F temps in my shop. I was able to sand the entire rocket with 400 grit then then shoot on one last thin primer coat in white before color.

Here we are after the final sanding with 400. The final sand went through the primer in a couple of places.



Shot on one light coat of white SEM high build to cover the bare spots and to use less white paint to cover the gray.



After about 90 mins I sanded with 800 to knock off the texture and hit the rocket with two coats of Krylon bright white.

 

[KenECoyote]

Fantastic rescue job!

Have you planned out how you're going to apply the graphics?

If you're planning on painting with masks, just a heads up that I think the masks in the instructions are completely wrong and actually showing the wrong pattern.

Those masks would only work if you did a base coat of red, apply masks, and then a coat of white, which is a recipe for disaster since white does really poorly over red.

 

[Back_at_it]

Had a chance to do some paint work on this project. Using a combination of masking from Sticker Shock, Tamiya tape and painters tape, I managed to get the maple leaf pattern on the rocket. Figuring out the first one took a little time but once I had a system it only took me about an hour to complete the masking. It really wasn't the huge pain in the butt I was expecting it to be.



After wiping the rocket down with alcohol to get my finger prints and contaminants off it I warmed it with a heat gun then shot on two very light coats of Krylon Hot Pepper Red. There is a tiny bit of bleed through that I need to correct but over all I'm really very happy with the results.

I did get a little overspray on the motor retainer but that is getting painted separately anyway.



Tonight will be vinyl then I'll clear it once the paint has had a week or so to cure.

 

[jmasterj]

Nice work, that looks great!

 

[Back_at_it]

I got the vinyl applied last night. Used Sticker Shock for the vinyl on this one and they are great as always. Perfect fit and nice quality.



Next it was time for a few finishing touches. Added approx. 6ft of 3/8" elastic for the shock cord. This was tied to the Kevlar leader inside the body tube. A hole was drilled in the nose cone and the other end of the elastic was passed through there and tied off.

Last item on the list was some basic fitment of the nose cone. Added a few pieces of blue tape to the cone to keep it from falling out. Adjustment will be made as needed in the field.



Will get Final weights and CG on this one when I get home tonight but we're pretty much done.

Next project is cleaning off the work bench

 

[KenECoyote]

Fantastic job!

Question though, can you confirm that those are Sticker Shock vinyl that you finished with?

I'm asking since I just finished my Canadian Arrow recently and the Stickershock vinyl I had was older, but everything was cut without any background nor border (ex. every single letter was a separate cut decal). I actually still have another set since I love this rocket and there was a BOGO free deal back then.

 

[Paul Howard]

Cool Rocket!!!
Thanks for posting!
-PTH

 

[Back_at_it]

Fantastic job!

Question though, can you confirm that those are Sticker Shock vinyl that you finished with?

I'm asking since I just finished my Canadian Arrow recently and the Sticker shock vinyl I had was older, but everything was cut without any background nor border (ex. every single letter was a separate cut decal). I actually still have another set since I love this rocket and there was a BOGO free deal back then.

Yes. The vinyl is from sticker shock. What size was your rocket? I believe that he prints on white back grounds for smaller projects where it would be hard to get the text to cut.

If this was a 4in rocket, my guess is that there would not be a back ground.

 

[KenECoyote]

Yes. The vinyl is from sticker shock. What size was your rocket? I believe that he prints on white back grounds for smaller projects where it would be hard to get the text to cut.

If this was a 4in rocket, my guess is that there would not be a back ground.

Mine was for the Estes (2.6"?), but again I got them quite a while ago... maybe 2015 and some of the backing paper was yellowed and sticking a bit too much. While it was cool to have everything cut as separate tiny vinyl decals, it also meant that it was prone to distortion whenever the backing paper wouldn't release and it became quite a challenge!
Of course the worst of it was on the front!

 

[Back_at_it]

Got the final weight and CG on this build. Total weight with wadding and a 24" chute ready to fly minus the motor is 10.7oz.

CG is at 17.75" without motor and 16.90" with the heaviest motor I plan to run. That gives me a Stability of 1.02 fully loaded ready to fly.



While it's just a touch on the heavy side for the E12, I'm feeling like it should fly ok in calm conditions. I normally like to see the velocity off the rod above 30mph but I feel this is "close enough". Looking at some pretty nice flights on an E20. Wish there was something in between the E12 and the E20 without going to Quest motors.

 

[jmasterj]

You could check a D12. Just as much initial thrust plus it weighs less than the E12.

 

[Back_at_it]

You could check a D12. Just as much initial thrust plus it weighs less than the E12.

I ran the D12 and removed it as velocity is only 26mph off the rod.

 

[jmasterj]

I ran the D12 and removed it as velocity is only 26mph off the rod.

Interesting, that surprises me. I have to go check some sims.