Here you go...Aren't these Estes 29mm pretty much unobtanium?
https://www.hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?search_cat_s=&str_s=e16
https://www.hobbylinc.com/cgi-bin/s8.cgi?search_cat_s=&str_s=estes+f15
Here you go...Aren't these Estes 29mm pretty much unobtanium?
China.
Like the way every heroin dealer cuts the quality of the product by adding baking soda or something, and then reselling the same product at 1/2 the quality to make more money, I suspect the Chinese factory that is pumping out all of Estes' product line is cutting back on the quality of materials, which includes the quality of the black powder, to make more profit. Although it seems like the Ferengi in Star Trek were meant to be (or turned into) a slanderous parody of Jewish people, I believe China has done a really good job embracing the Rules of Acquisition.
Estes turns to China for kit components, but their motors are still made in the US.I thought all of Estes BP Motors were made domestically.
That is interesting. So CATO reports to Estes might actually affect manufacturing as Customer Service may actually communicate with the folks making the motors. Noted for future reference. Either way, they need to do something about those nozzles blowing out. While my "D" CATO didn't damage the rocket, the "E" explosion destroyed my 'Drag Queen" rocket.Estes turns to China for kit components, but their motors are still made in the US.
Black powder Es have always been at high risk for CATO. Estes already withdrew the E9s and replaced them with the E12s to address precisely this risk. They did the same in the 70s with the D line, replacing the D13 with the D12.That is interesting. So CATO reports to Estes might actually affect manufacturing as Customer Service may actually communicate with the folks making the motors. Noted for future reference. Either way, they need to do something about those nozzles blowing out. While my "D" CATO didn't damage the rocket, the "E" explosion destroyed my 'Drag Queen" rocket.
Estes already withdrew the E9s and replaced them with the E12s to address precisely this risk.
Estes already withdrew the E9s and replaced them with the E12s to address precisely this risk.
You can also reduce the odds of a CATO by flying large motors as quickly as possible. They have 1-year warranties and that’s about as much temperature cycling as they can take.
My ignorance is showing, but doesn’t every new motor need to be certified? Then that published data is used by entities like Open Rocket, RockSim, ThrustCurve, and Rocket Reviews.China.
Like the way every heroin dealer cuts the quality of the product by adding baking soda or something, and then reselling the same product at 1/2 the quality to make more money, I suspect the Chinese factory that is pumping out all of Estes' product line is cutting back on the quality of materials, which includes the quality of the black powder, to make more profit. Although it seems like the Ferengi in Star Trek were meant to be (or turned into) a slanderous parody of Jewish people, I believe China has done a really good job embracing the Rules of Acquisition.
Yes, in order to be sold to the general public in most countries, rocket motors must be certified, typically in accordance with NFPA 1125.My ignorance is showing, but doesn’t every new motor need to be certified? Then that published data is used by entities like Open Rocket, RockSim, ThrustCurve, and Rocket Reviews.
i don’t know if EXISTING motors ver have to get re-certified. I don’t know if the re-released C5-3 got re-tested (rather than “assumed” to be identical to the OLD C5-3) nor if other motors that haven’t obviously been changed for decades (Estes 13, 18, and 24 mm, for example) in decades ever get rechecked (really miss Der MicroMeister, he’d probably know this, maybe @Peartree , @cwbullet , or @Steve Shannon would know, although the last two are mainly High Power guys, they may know who to ask on the forum, thanks in advance Gentlemen!)
since I don’t thing the Estes Motor Chart has changed much over the years, and it includes recommended Max Lift Off weights (which Estes continues to design rockets OVER the recommended Max Lift Off weights for recommended motors…..but that’s another rabbit hole for another time) I would think if their current manufacturers were ”watering down the whiskey” it would catch up with them in a span of a few months.
the Quest motors have certainly had a few bugs, but seem to be squashing them quickly.
anyhoo, yes Estes has a corner on all Black powder and all 13 mm motors and all single use zero delay motors, but the Quest 18 and 24 mm motors compete well in those markets, which I think is the majority of low power. I like Estes, but I am glad they don’t have a complete monopoly.
So my memory didn't fail me this time. Thanks for the reply.Estes turns to China for kit components, but their motors are still made in the US.
the "E" explosion destroyed my 'Drag Queen" rocket.
I had two recent CATOs with Estes BP motors where the nozzle blew out. This isn't saying to me that the powder is too powerful, it's saying to me that whatever glue they use to keep the nozzle in place is too weak. Like they are cutting back on the glue. I have another rocketeer who recommends to me that we all put a little ring of epoxy around the nozzle to hold things in place. While it seems that customer service is happy to provide replacement motors, when I informed them of that plan, they urged me not to modify the motors in any way as that voids the warantee. Nevertheless this other rocketeer who has epoxied the nozzle isn't experiencing CATOs.
This is *NOT* hard evidence and is circumstantial, I know. Won't hold up in court. Already aware.
That said, my experience has been that something is amiss, and I should not be experiencing such a thing with brand new packages of D and E motors.
Your ignorance and assumicidal tendencies are on full display.China.
Like the way every heroin dealer cuts the quality of the product by adding baking soda or something, and then reselling the same product at 1/2 the quality to make more money, I suspect the Chinese factory that is pumping out all of Estes' product line is cutting back on the quality of materials, which includes the quality of the black powder, to make more profit. Although it seems like the Ferengi in Star Trek were meant to be (or turned into) a slanderous parody of Jewish people, I believe China has done a really good job embracing the Rules of Acquisition.
sounds like good business planning to me, kind of like a car company acquiring a steel company (or in today’s world, a battery company!).
In the past few years Estes has been acquired by an upstanding family with a very strong background in model rocketry. They also purchased the Goex black powder factory in the United States after it was closed by its previous owner.
Nozzles are not glued in, the nozzle material (clay) is pressed into the casing first then the BP charge is pressed in.I had two recent CATOs with Estes BP motors where the nozzle blew out. This isn't saying to me that the powder is too powerful, it's saying to me that whatever glue they use to keep the nozzle in place is too weak. Like they are cutting back on the glue. I have another rocketeer who recommends to me that we all put a little ring of epoxy around the nozzle to hold things in place. While it seems that customer service is happy to provide replacement motors, when I informed them of that plan, they urged me not to modify the motors in any way as that voids the warantee. Nevertheless this other rocketeer who has epoxied the nozzle isn't experiencing CATOs.
This is *NOT* hard evidence and is circumstantial, I know. Won't hold up in court. Already aware.
That said, my experience has been that something is amiss, and I should not be experiencing such a thing with brand new packages of D and E motors.
Thanks Bill.
The shipper is the one that would be fined.I would not advise buying those from Hobbylinc. Unless something has changed recently, they do not ship those motors hazmat like they are supposed to and accepting that shipment could make you subject to penalties if the PO gets wind.
I'm pretty sure if the customer receives the shipment knowing it was shipped illegally, they could be subject to penalties as well.The shipper is the one that would be fined.
Assuming the buyer could get into trouble, those would be the key words.knowing it was shipped illegally
The fist should be flaming or something to set it apart more.
There ya go!
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