Effects of government shutdown on rocket launches (TFR's)?

[Neo]

Does anybody have past experience or direct knowledge if there would be any impact to high-altitude launch events in the event of a federal government shutdown? My understanding is that the FAA and military operations will continue due to their critical importance, but do they continue fully or do certain activities & services stopped, namely the activation of TFR's for special events?

 

[cwbullet]

Anything is possible, but operations should continue for those entities.

 

[tfish]

Last time..

My FAA guy got in trouble for continuing to help me. He gave me his private cell as we worked out the details to a tricky waiver.

The shut down was over by the time the waiver went active.

So yes it can/does affect waivers.

Tony

 

[tim cubbedge]

The only problem we ran into was a delay in processing our COA renewal.

 

[Steve Shannon]

The only problem we ran into was a delay in processing our COA renewal.

I remember there were several Prefectures who were waiting for new COAs. I asked Prefects in general to let me know if they were waiting and I sent a list to a friendly person who wasn’t supposed to be doing anything at all. He couldn’t do anything during the shutdown but he was able to get them queued up for quicker processing when the shutdown ended. To me, his desire to help was an example of very good government service. I know it’s fun for some to bash government employees, but for the most part we’ve gotten very good service from FAA.

 

[Antares JS]

I remember there were several Prefectures who were waiting for new COAs. I asked Prefects in general to let me know if they were waiting and I sent a list to a friendly person who wasn’t supposed to be doing anything at all. He couldn’t do anything during the shutdown but he was able to get them queued up for quicker processing when the shutdown ended. To me, his desire to help was an example of very good government service. I know it’s fun for some to bash government employees, but for the most part we’ve gotten very good service from FAA.

I have mostly nice things to say about the FAA, having also worked with FAA guys in a professional capacity.

Now the ATF, those guys are jerks. But we all know that.

 

[Steve Shannon]

I have mostly nice things to say about the FAA, having also worked with FAA guys in a professional capacity.

Now the ATF, those guys are jerks. But we all know that.

Well, no, I disagree about the ATF also. I was an FFL for 40 years and during that time I had several positive interactions with ATF personnel. Also, for rocketry, John Hochheimer, Burl Finkelstein, and I had a meeting with the acting director of the ATF at the time in Washington DC. He included his department heads and it was a very good meeting. He understands
I’m sure there are employees of every government agency who are bad actors, but it’s not fair to characterize them all based on those few bad apples.

 

[Antares JS]

Well, no, I disagree about the ATF also. I was an FFL for 40 years and during that time I had several positive interactions with ATF personnel. Also, for rocketry, John Hochheimer, Burl Finkelstein, and I had a meeting with the acting director of the ATF at the time in Washington DC. He included his department heads and it was a very good meeting. He understands
I’m sure there are employees of every government agency who are bad actors, but it’s not fair to characterize them all based on those few bad apples.

I know, I know, I was (mostly) attempting to be humorous.

 

[cwbullet]

Well, no, I disagree about the ATF also. I was an FFL for 40 years and during that time I had several positive interactions with ATF personnel. Also, for rocketry, John Hochheimer, Burl Finkelstein, and I had a meeting with the acting director of the ATF at the time in Washington DC. He included his department heads and it was a very good meeting. He understands
I’m sure there are employees of every government agency who are bad actors, but it’s not fair to characterize them all based on those few bad apples.

I have to agree with the FAA - great folks. My wife calls the FAA contractor and Air Force Monthly to activate our waiver. They are genuinely interested and helpful. A few have attended our launches.

The ATF is generally helpful and just trying to keep us safe. Since I got back into rocketry, we have had one bad actor in GA, SC, and NC areas. The individual reported them, and it was dealt with (whatever that means). I can't imagine how many people push the envelope on what is legal and safe. I am sure they have stories to tell. I do not envy their jobs.

 

[NateB]

for the most part we’ve gotten very good service from FAA.

We have had a replacement helicopter built by Leonardo / Augusta (AW169) and in the States waiting for final FAA approval for design phase changes to an already approved airframe for over a year. Reportedly test flights have all passed, but nobody from the FAA showed up to a scheduled meeting last week and we still don't have final approval to take delivery of it.

Now the ATF, those guys are jerks. But we all know that.

I have had limited, but positive experiences with them in the fireworks business. They even sent me a Christmas card one year.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Do shutdowns ever affect access to launch sites on Federal lands? I know it sometimes results in National Parks being closed to the public, but does it affect access to BLM land or other federal land?

 

[Steve Shannon]

Do shutdowns ever affect access to launch sites on Federal lands? I know it sometimes results in National Parks being closed to the public, but does it affect access to BLM land or other federal land?

It can. It would be good to call them beforehand. In my case, I have to activate my COA the week before a launch by asking permission from FAA. If I can’t activate my COA I can’t launch anyway so BLM doesn’t matter.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Dumbocracy in action!

 

[RocketPro]

My center gave me alternate instructions for activating my COA in case there’s a shutdown. We spoke yesterday and he noted it as my “pre-coordination” so that requirement was met in advance (by three weeks!).

BLM is another matter, they don’t yet have guidance from their Headquarters, but told me that there’s direction expected on Oct 3rd if there is a shutdown.

I recommend that you reach out NOW, before folks get furloughed to see what can be arranged.

 

[cwbullet]

My center gave me alternate instructions for activating my COA in case there’s a shutdown. We spoke yesterday and he noted it as my “pre-coordination” so that requirement was met in advance (by three weeks!).

BLM is another matter, they don’t yet have guidance from their Headquarters, but told me that there’s direction expected on Oct 3rd if there is a shutdown.

I recommend that you reach out NOW, before folks get furloughed to see what can be arranged.

What does BLM have to do with the FAA or ATF?

 

[gldknght]

What does BLM have to do with the FAA or ATF?

Probably nothing, but if your launch site is on land controlled by the Bureau of Land Management, a gov'ment shut-down could affect that.

 

[cwbullet]

Probably nothing, but if your launch site is on land controlled by the Bureau of Land Management, a gov'ment shut-down could affect that.

So many abbreviations. Beauru of Land Management vs. Black Lives Matter. Too many common abbreviation confuse me.

 

[RocketPro]

What does BLM have to do with the FAA or ATF?

The BLM is the Federal agency that manages the land that we use for our launch site so also subject to shutdown issues.

 

[cwbullet]

The BLM is the Federal agency that manages the land that we use for our launch site so also subject to shutdown issues.

Yes. I had tunnel vision. I thought he was referring to Black Lives Matter. Easy mistake to make with them being more recent tin the news.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Yes. I had tunnel vision. I thought he was referring to Black Lives Matter. Easy mistake to make with them being more recent tin the news.

BLM (Bureau of Land Management) is probably a much bigger thing here in the western states. I never even considered the other since we were discussing government agencies shutting down.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I hope the shutdown doesn’t affect the BLT.

 

[cwbullet]

I can see some effects from the shutdown that did not occur. If I have to run the launch in October and I do not get a paycheck by then, I might have to cancel the launch to stay at home and conserve cash. I will be furloughed till Congress gets their act together.

 

[Rob Campbell]

I can see some effects from the shutdown that did not occur. If I have to run the launch in October and I do not get a paycheck by then, I might have to cancel the launch to stay at home and conserve cash. I will be furloughed till Congress gets their act together.

You'll still receive your retired checks. I've been through a couple of shutdowns and my retirement checks always arrived on time.

 

[RocketPro]

I hope the shutdown doesn’t affect the BLT.

Now if that were true, the shutdown wouldn’t last long at all!

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Another congressional dysfunction affecting the FAA is that the agency’s statutory authorization is running out this weekend too. So they’ll be out of money with the shutdown and also in a kind of legal limbo with the expired authorization. From what I’ve read, air-traffic controllers will continue to work without pay, but a lot of other FAA work will stop. Something like 2,600 FAA employees in training will be sent home, including about 1,000 who are already working while training. System upgrades and other projects will be suspended.

Every few years, it seems like our country‘s political system needs to go through a pointless spoiled-brat temper tantrum, costing a lot of time, money, and inconvenience, with nothing to show for it.

 

[cwbullet]

Yes. I will have to decide based on bills and finances. About 2/3 of my cash will be delayed if this goes past the first pay period in October.

You'll still receive your retired checks. I've been through a couple of shutdowns and my retirement checks always arrived on time.

 

[speed]

It will have no effect on me. Shut it down!

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Yes. I will have to decide based on bills and finances. About 2/3 of my cash will be delayed if this goes past the first pay period in October.

They don’t usually last very long. Shutdowns are unpopular (because they are idiotic), and usually the pressure builds pretty fast to end them. Congressional leadership finds a way to cut the holdouts out of the process and take the blame without getting anything they wanted.

 

[Steve Shannon]

It will have no effect on me. Shut it down!

Unless you live somewhere other than the USA it will have an effect on you. Maybe not directly at first, but eventually it will.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Unless you live somewhere other than the USA it will have an effect on you. Maybe not directly at first, but eventually it will.

If it goes on for very long, it can damage the economy, maybe even cause a recession.