COVID Testing and Outcomes

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Have you been tested for COVID-19?

  • Yes, result negative

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, result positive

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not tested

    Votes: 45 100.0%

  • Total voters
    45
There are plenty of younger people getting pretty sick too. I don't think isolating people of a certain age would be effective in slowing this down.
My suggestion wasn't to slow it. Given the math it cannot be stopped. The suggestion was the opposite, let it spread in the young and strong to achieve herd immunity as soon as possible and only then would the virus transmission die out.
 
My other daughter had an acquaintance who recently died from (they think) the coronavirus. He was 40, a biker, a mountain climber, very active outdoor person.
On average it kills 1% of those who get it. For 10-39 year olds the death rate is “only” twice that of the flu, 0.2%.
There are about 120 million people between those ages in the USA. 0.2% of that is 240,000 people.
Yes, there are no good choices. In my mind musings, I just thought isolation of those under 50 would be easier, given many in their 40s have children in school and transmission more efficient. But say the cutoff was 40, and you achieved herd immunity while isolating the older group, then you would avert 93.8% of the projected deaths (or 150MM), and the number of critical cases hitting medical facilities may be reduced 20X or more.
Screenshot_20200322-174724.jpg
 
Last edited:
Better yet - there is a new 30-minute viral protein test in the wings, awaiting FDA emergency authorization.
More info on various types of tests here:
https://news.mit.edu/2020/covid-19-diagnostic-test-prevention-0312



There is no evidence that Italy "tested everyone" nation-wide (no country did, or could):
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing

Italy did, however, test everyone who has recently died for Covid-19, thus they are reporting a far higher mortality rate then the rest of the world:
https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/368/bmj.m1065.full.pdf



US testing decisions are driven by shortage of tests available, and the time it takes to back the results. Not "lessons learned". At least not in NY/NJ (my parents are retired Dr's, TMI).

Testing may only be marginally helpful for determining course of treatment.
However, it is essential for identifying asymptomatic infected who are not aware they've picked up the virus, yet are actively spreading it. There is simply no other way to inform asymptomatic carriers of the status, and have them change their behavior:
Relying on the entire 330+M of US population to consistently and diligently self-isolate is, unfortunately, unrealistic. As important and essential as that recommendation is, and as much as we should attempt to enforce it, we still need to maintain essential services, and people who provide them, can be asymptomatic.

Either way, now it is what it is.

Best of luck and health to Chuck, Nate, and all health professionals who are on the front lines of Covid-19 response!

I could have been more clear. Several portions of Italy did mass testing and locked down and they did little to stop infections. I am not sure why. We need to study the data more.
 
I could have been more clear. Several portions of Italy did mass testing and locked down and they did little to stop infections. I am not sure why. We need to study the data more.
I had read that just before they issued the lock down that it was made public that the lock down was coming. That allowed some 10,000 people to leave the area. If even just a small percentage of them were shedding virus, the lock down was doomed to fail.
 
I could have been more clear. Several portions of Italy did mass testing and locked down and they did little to stop infections. I am not sure why. We need to study the data more.

w.r.t. Italy's lock-downs, those were late, poorly organized, communicated far in advance of an actual application (I have friends who skirted Milan's lock-down by heading south), and widely ignored for the longest time:
https://time.com/5800605/coronavirus-lockdown-covid-19-italy/

One data point suggests just the opposite is the case w.r.t. testing - "Scientists say mass tests in Italian town have halted Covid-19 there":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ss-tests-in-italian-town-have-halted-covid-19

"The researchers explained they had tested the inhabitants twice and that the study led to the discovery of the decisive role in the spread of the coronavirus epidemic of asymptomatic people.

When the study began, on 6 March, there were at least 90 infected in Vò. For days now, there have been no new cases.

“We were able to contain the outbreak here, because we identified and eliminated the ‘submerged’ infections and isolated them,” Andrea Crisanti, an infections expert at Imperial College London, who took part in the Vò project, told the Financial Times. “That is what makes the difference.”

The research allowed for the identification of at least six asymptomatic people who tested positive for Covid-19. ‘‘If these people had not been discovered,” said the researchers, they would probably have unknowingly infected other inhabitants.

“The percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the population is very high,” wrote Sergio Romagnani, professor of clinical immunology at the University of Florence, in a letter to the authorities. “The isolation of asymptomatics is essential to be able to control the spread of the virus and the severity of the disease.”
"

Agreed that there are a LOT of lessons that are yet to be learned from Italy's experience.
 
Last edited:
w.r.t. Italy's lock-downs, those were late, poorly organized, communicated far in advance of an actual application (I have friends who skirted Milan's lock-down by heading south), and widely ignored for the longest time:
https://time.com/5800605/coronavirus-lockdown-covid-19-italy/

One data point suggests just the opposite is the case w.r.t. testing - "Scientists say mass tests in Italian town have halted Covid-19 there":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ss-tests-in-italian-town-have-halted-covid-19

I am sorry. There is nothing in that article to prove testing would halt the spread. What will stop the spread is an executive to order to halt movement and travel early. and common sense to obey it. It is time to lock things down. I say this and I have a lot to lose from a lockdown. I work 2 hours from my home and would be required at work.
 
I am sorry. There is nothing in that article to prove testing would halt the spread. What will stop the spread is an executive to order to halt movement and travel early. and common sense to obey it. It is time to lock things down. I say this and I have a lot to lose from a lockdown. I work 2 hours from my home and would be required at work.
Both some kind of lockdown / social isolation *and* massive testing is needed. The lockdown is the blunt, widespread, immediately available and immediately effective (*) instrument. But a perfect lockdown is not possible, unless everybody is fully compliant, everybody has enough groceries at home for 3 weeks and basically every business gets shut down. Testing fills the holes by providing the basis for more thorough isolation of identified cases. It will make the difference between, "not getting out unless there is a good reason" and "not getting out at all". Too many people in a free society will not comply with the necessary measures, unless they know they are affected.

Other parts of Italy are now following the aggressive testing, tracing and isolation strategy of Vo.

After the first wave is over, and testing has been scaled up, further testing will be necessary to reduce the economic impact. A lockdown can't be kept in force indefinitely and there will still be infected people as well as 99%+ non-imunized people out there. Improved targeted measures will then be needed to allow for the reduction of shotgun measures.
It will be interesting to see how all of this will be balanced in the time frame after the outbreak phase is over but before herd immunity (hopefully via vaccination) is established.

Reinhard

*) Effective immediately, but unfortunately the effects become visible only after roughly 7-12 days.
 
My suggestion wasn't to slow it. Given the math it cannot be stopped. The suggestion was the opposite, let it spread in the young and strong to achieve herd immunity as soon as possible and only then would the virus transmission die out.
That's exactly what the Israelis are doing with the additional measure of protecting as much as possible those most vulnerable to bad outcomes.
 
Both some kind of lockdown / social isolation *and* massive testing is needed. The lockdown is the blunt, widespread, immediately available and immediately effective (*) instrument.
For flattening hospital demand from an initial condition of a likely huge number of infections due to lack of testing it's OK, but it can't be done over and over again without absolutely destroying the economy. Isolate - end isolation - virus returns - isolate - end isolation - virus returns, etc. After initial curve flattening via lockdown followed by widespread TESTING, the only thing to do is to do what the Israelis are doing.

But it takes great political courage to say, "70% of you must get this before it dies out, so lets get with it to get this over as soon as possible. A vaccine is too far in the future AND the virus may mutate before it's even available." That's the irrefutable math of viruses. If there's no vaccine only herd immunity will end its spread. With COVID-19 85-90% will not need hospitalization, many will never even know they've had it, and the 10-15% who are the ones most likely to be hospitalized are the ones who need to isolate and be protected as much as possible.
 
What we need is for people to stay out of the public for the next two weeks. That can be voluntary or if the infection gets too high, it might be by order. The bottom line is: do it for your or someone else grandmother.

I have not and will not be tested unless I get sick and need admission. If I get sick and do not need admission, I will go home and self-isolate.
 
I'm from a large family of about 50 people (siblings, nephews, nieces, aunts, uncle's, grand-nephews and grand-nieces, etc.) but I personally am not married, have no kids and live alone. Most of my sister's are RNs and one younger brother is a RN at the local VA. He has 3 kids, one of whom is immunocompromised. I know full well that my brother will more than likely be infected but starting tomorrow he will be living with me in order to protect his kids.

People need to stay home. That is all, just stay home. No job is worth a life. No gathering of people is worth a life. Not asking you to amputate a leg, just stay home. Read a book or two, watch some TV or even build some rockets.
 
What we need is for people to stay out of the public for the next two weeks. That can be voluntary or if the infection gets too high, it might be by order. The bottom line is: do it for your or someone else grandmother.
Wish it was by order. Still not enough social distancing.
 
So given that the virus spreads so fast, i.e., world population in months, it seems the correct course of action would be to isolate those 50 and over and let it spread as quickly as possible in the young and healthy. Then herd immunity would be achieved and transmission halted. This would transpire far sooner than any vaccine could be developed, or even mass testing done.
Getting this virus does not give immunity to re-infection.
 

Good video (although I really didn't have the 18 minutes to spend right now). Summarizing, reinfection is unlikely and herd immunity is likely for COVID-19.

So to be "reinfected" it would need to be a mutation of the Coronavirus, which would typically take 12 to 24 mos. to occur. But hopefully by that time, health professionals are ahead of the curve in developing vaccines.
 
Good video (although I really didn't have the 18 minutes to spend right now). Summarizing, reinfection is unlikely and herd immunity is likely for COVID-19.

So to be "reinfected" it would need to be a mutation of the Coronavirus, which would typically take 12 to 24 mos. to occur. But hopefully by that time, health professionals are ahead of the curve in developing vaccines.

It is absolutely correct. Reinfection is unlikely and herd immunity is probable for COVID-19.
 
Some of my confusion about a lock-down is what people are supposed to do for food. Either 1) you get a little before lock-down, or you think you have plenty and don't get more, and the lock-down lasts long enough that you run out of food and are screwed, or 2) you stock up for a long stay indoors but you run a risk of socializing during your extended grocery shopping and risk exposing yourself to the virus. Also, if you "stock up" you're accused of "hoarding" and people talk bad about you for buying too many of whatever you think you'll need.

In countries that are on lock-down does the government force people to stay indoors but also deliver groceries to them?
 
Some of my confusion about a lock-down is what people are supposed to do for food. Either 1) you get a little before lock-down, or you think you have plenty and don't get more, and the lock-down lasts long enough that you run out of food and are screwed, or 2) you stock up for a long stay indoors but you run a risk of socializing during your extended grocery shopping and risk exposing yourself to the virus. Also, if you "stock up" you're accused of "hoarding" and people talk bad about you for buying too many of whatever you think you'll need.

In countries that are on lock-down does the government force people to stay indoors but also deliver groceries to them?
Can only speak for my locale, but grocery stores are considered essential businesses and are open. There was a plea by the governor to not overbuy and that normal supply channels should keep the stores stocked if people are reasonable in their buying. There are also options for home delivery, as there was before the shelter-in-place order, and those can be used if preferred.
 
Can only speak for my locale, but grocery stores are considered essential businesses and are open. There was a plea by the governor to not overbuy and that normal supply channels should keep the stores stocked if people are reasonable in their buying. There are also options for home delivery, as there was before the shelter-in-place order, and those can be used if preferred.
But that's not a situation of a lock-down as I understand it. It sounds like you're in an area where people are highly encouraged to stay home unless they absolutely need to, which is like most places anymore, but not one where you're told by the government that you HAVE to stay home or else. That's the situation I'm unclear about.
 
Up here in Fort Wayne, grocery stores are open and the delivery services are operating as well. A few stores even have an hour open for health care personnel and seniors only. Just make sure to wash your hands good, wipe the cart handle, and wash your hands again after you out your food away.

My plan is to go to work when I have to, the grocery once a week on my way home from work, and stay home the rest of the time.
 
But that's not a situation of a lock-down as I understand it. It sounds like you're in an area where people are highly encouraged to stay home unless they absolutely need to, which is like most places anymore, but not one where you're told by the government that you HAVE to stay home or else. That's the situation I'm unclear about.
I'm actually not sure what you are describing then as a lock down. I would guess that is basically marshall law(?). I posted a New Yorker article yesterday on an account of a person on "lockdown" in China. They still had freedom of movement, they were just being watched/policed more than we are (at least as of now).
 
We have direction, the governors are listening to the CDC recommendations. I'll leave it at that.
 
But that's not a situation of a lock-down as I understand it. It sounds like you're in an area where people are highly encouraged to stay home unless they absolutely need to, which is like most places anymore, but not one where you're told by the government that you HAVE to stay home or else. That's the situation I'm unclear about.

As I understand it, even in the most restrictive lockdowns in the non-China world, there have been exceptions for grocery shopping. In Italy, they limited the number of trips and number of people from the households who could go shopping.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top