Coronavirus: What questions do you have?

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

billdz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
1,283
Reaction score
79
Is there any late news on mixing 2 different covid vaccines? My wife is in Slovakia but is scheduled to return here to Florida in June. She just became eligible for the Astra Zeneca vaccine, but the second shot would not be scheduled until after here return. Should she get the first AZ shot now, and then get a different vaccine after she gets back here?

I saw these articles that suggest mixing vaccines is OK:
Bump.

Any thoughts on what my wife should do?
 

BABAR

Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
8,390
Reaction score
3,161
Ok, multiple articles breaking today.


My team was on 60 minutes last night. A great highlight to our efforts to beat COVID and this revolutionary filter for infections. The fox news looks at our sister facility but we have treated more.
Congrats.

told you the military was gonna make it big in the news shooting up civilians! ;)
 

Marc_G

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,940
Reaction score
966
Location
Indianapolis Metro Area
Hi Chuck,

With the US at least temporarily hitting the pause button on the J&J vaccine, how do you recommend we rational folks handle the BS that the anti-vaxxers or seriously hesitant folks are going to start spewing?

My stock take on this is that it's being given under an EUA so any blip in the safety data needs full review; this is part of how the process works. Even for one in a million weird blood clots (6 cases reported in 6.8 million doses) need to go under scrutiny. Further people who got the dose a couple weeks ago are already past the risk period which is really just a few days. But I'm bracing for the "I told you so!" Crowd to chime in.

Of course the 6.8 million people vaccinated with the vaccine have certainly already had more people saved from COVID than the six clotting cases...

Any thoughts, Chuck?
 

dhbarr

Amateur Professional
Joined
Jan 30, 2016
Messages
7,249
Reaction score
1,675
With the US at least temporarily hitting the pause button on the J&J vaccine, how do you recommend we rational folks handle the BS that the anti-vaxxers or seriously hesitant folks are going to start spewing?

My stock take on this is that it's being given under an EUA so any blip in the safety data needs full review; this is part of how the process works. Even for one in a million weird blood clots (6 cases reported in 6.8 million doses) need to go under scrutiny. Further people who got the dose a couple weeks ago are already past the risk period which is really just a few days. But I'm bracing for the "I told you so!" Crowd to chime in.

Of course the 6.8 million people vaccinated with the vaccine have certainly already had more people saved from COVID than the six clotting cases...
You can't reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. These are the same people who think masks "don't work".
 

Nytrunner

Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
7,876
Reaction score
3,548
Location
Huntsville AL
Chuck, Several younger mothers (or hope to be mothers in the near future) in my personal friend circle (in-person, not social media lol) have concerns about the effects of the mrna vaccines on pregnancy, including mentioning a friend of theirs that miscarried shortly after receiving the vaccine (and word of other women around the country that have experienced something similar recently).

Is there some reliable information or documentation either side on this concern? Ultimately the choice is up to them, but I hate to see decisions made based on misinformation
 

Peartree

Cyborg Rocketeer
Staff member
Administrator
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
5,481
Reaction score
934
Location
Alliance, Ohio
Hi Chuck,

With the US at least temporarily hitting the pause button on the J&J vaccine, how do you recommend we rational folks handle the BS that the anti-vaxxers or seriously hesitant folks are going to start spewing?

My stock take on this is that it's being given under an EUA so any blip in the safety data needs full review; this is part of how the process works. Even for one in a million weird blood clots (6 cases reported in 6.8 million doses) need to go under scrutiny. Further people who got the dose a couple weeks ago are already past the risk period which is really just a few days. But I'm bracing for the "I told you so!" Crowd to chime in.

Of course the 6.8 million people vaccinated with the vaccine have certainly already had more people saved from COVID than the six clotting cases...

Any thoughts, Chuck?
Part of my takeaway from this is that if the entire emergency program and EUA is paused because of six cases, that is in itself outstanding evidence that they ARE taking safety very seriously. We acept one in a million risk for practically everything we do during the course of our day. Compared to many, totally ordinary, daily activities, one in a million barely shows up on our radar.

Chances of Death:

Riding in an automobile - 1 in 6,700
Canoeing - 1 in 10,000
Playing football - 1 in 50,000
Skydiving - 101,183
Bicycling - 1 in 140,845
Running and jogging - 1 in 1,000,000
Swimming - 1 in 1,000,000
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
Chuck, Several younger mothers (or hope to be mothers in the near future) in my personal friend circle (in-person, not social media lol) have concerns about the effects of the mrna vaccines on pregnancy, including mentioning a friend of theirs that miscarried shortly after receiving the vaccine (and word of other women around the country that have experienced something similar recently).

Is there some reliable information or documentation either side on this concern? Ultimately the choice is up to them, but I hate to see decisions made based on misinformation
I am not saying miscarriages are not possible but they are not tied to the vaccine, yet. I have hundreds of miscarriages every year and have yet to see a single one I could remotely link to COVID immunizations. As for an increase, I would say he have had less this year.
 

Bowman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
230
Reaction score
145
I am not saying miscarriages are not possible but they are not tied to the vaccine, yet. I have hundreds of miscarriages every year and have yet to see a single one I could remotely link to COVID immunizations. As for an increase, I would say he have had less this year.
There seems to be a key number missing in the reporting.
I know we need to report every adverse event, but that number should be considered against the statistically normal occurrence of the event, not assumed to be an increase over the baseline until that is assessed.
I think that is the danger of the medias approach to reporting what they see as the sensational news.

Do you know how many people that fit the population (women ages 18-48 IIRC) are expected to suffer this problem even prior to vaccination?

I presume there may also be additional contributing factors that we won't know until the investigation is complete.
Disclosure: My oldest daughter just received the J&J vaccine last Saturday.
She says she feels fine and is not fretting the issue but you know it has to linger in the back of her mind.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
Part of my takeaway from this is that if the entire emergency program and EUA is paused because of six cases, that is in itself outstanding evidence that they ARE taking safety very seriously. We acept one in a million risk for practically everything we do during the course of our day. Compared to many, totally ordinary, daily activities, one in a million barely shows up on our radar.

Chances of Death:

Riding in an automobile - 1 in 6,700
Canoeing - 1 in 10,000
Playing football - 1 in 50,000
Skydiving - 101,183
Bicycling - 1 in 140,845
Running and jogging - 1 in 1,000,000
Swimming - 1 in 1,000,000
‘True - these 6 poor outcomes appears to be tied to an autoimmune issue that chews up the ability to resist Clots. It could also be a combination with birth control or some other habit folks have. The point of the stand down is to take time to investigate. I know for many it is a foreign concept, but in medicine, we live by the belief to “first do no harm”. If it is possible, we need to take a knee and figure out the “why” before we risk harming more.
 

Cl(VII)

Chris Bender, Lab Rat
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
985
Location
Garland, TX
‘True - these 6 poor outcomes appears to be tied to an autoimmune issue that chews up the ability to resist Clots. It could also be a combination with birth control or some other habit folks have. The point of the stand down is to take time to investigate. I know for many it is a foreign concept, but in medicine, we live by the belief to “first do no harm”. If it is possible, we need to take a knee and figure out the “why” before we risk harming more.
This! The fact that all of the cases appear to be in a relatively uniform subset of the patient population (women 16-46) points to a common risk factor. I'd bet it can be identified in pretty short order, and exclusion criteria established (mercifully we have multiple vacines based on two fundamentally different technologies). In the interim vaccine production can continue, and it will just result in more immediately available shots when the exclusion criteria are determined and administration of the JandJ shot resumes.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
There seems to be a key number missing in the reporting.
I know we need to report every adverse event, but that number should be considered against the statistically normal occurrence of the event, not assumed to be an increase over the baseline until that is assessed.
I think that is the danger of the medias approach to reporting what they see as the sensational news.

Do you know how many people that fit the population (women ages 18-48 IIRC) are expected to suffer this problem even prior to vaccination?

I presume there may also be additional contributing factors that we won't know until the investigation is complete.
Disclosure: My oldest daughter just received the J&J vaccine last Saturday.
She says she feels fine and is not fretting the issue but you know it has to linger in the back of her mind.
You have to remember: This is not a tested and true drug that we know all of the adverse events. We have not seen the degree of adverse events from Pfizer or Moderna. This is only a pause to look and see if there is a mechanism. I think we will find this is a rare side effect caused by somethings else in combination with the vaccine. Heck, it may be something that has nothing to do with the vaccine. It is seen both in AZ and J&J so it might have somethign to do with the type fo vaccine they are.

Like with oral birth control pills, there might even buy a tie of smoking, age, or even obesity. We need more information.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
This! The fact that all of the cases appear to be in a relatively uniform subset of the patient population (women 16-46) points to a common risk factor. I'd bet it can be identified in pretty short order, and exclusion criteria established (mercifully we have multiple vacines based on two fundamentally different technologies). In the interim vaccine production can continue, and it will just result in more immediately available shots when the exclusion criteria are determined and administration of the JandJ shot resumes.
I think you are right.
 

afadeev

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
1,665
Reaction score
890
Part of my takeaway from this is that if the entire emergency program and EUA is paused because of six cases, that is in itself outstanding evidence that they ARE taking safety very seriously.
There seems to be a key number missing in the reporting. I know we need to report every adverse event, but that number should be considered against the statistically normal occurrence of the event, not assumed to be an increase over the baseline until that is assessed. I think that is the danger of the medias approach to reporting what they see as the sensational news.
This is only a pause to look and see if there is a mechanism. I think we will find this is a rare side effect caused by somethings else in combination with the vaccine. Heck, it may be something that has nothing to do with the vaccine. It is seen both in AZ and J&J so it might have somethign to do with the type fo vaccine they are.
All of the above is VERY true and VERY valid, but you can't discount the impact of this very public "pause" on public confidence in the vaccination drive.
CDC statement read: "CDC will convene a meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) on Wednesday to further review these cases and assess their potential significance." Well, why don't you folks convene today, review, and THEN report on the results?

The net effect will be negative, fractionally adding fuel to the vaccine hesitancy movement in the US, and worldwide:

It's not the issue of total supply - there are plenty of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines for all Americans, and both are now offering to ramp up production beyond pre-agreed upon levels:

Once you start looking at the Global vaccination drive's progress, "pauses" in J&J and especially AZ vaccine adoption, will have a much larger impact on worldwide vaccination efforts:
1618372790078.png

 
Last edited:

Bowman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
230
Reaction score
145
All of the above is VERY true and VERY valid, but you can't discount the impact of this very public "pause" on public confidence in the vaccination drive.
The net effect will be negative, fractionally adding fuel to the vaccine hesitancy movement in the US, and worldwide:

It's not the issue of total supply - there are plenty of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines for all Americans, and both are now offering to ramp up production beyond pre-agreed upon levels:

Once you start looking at the Global vaccination drive's progress, "pauses" in J&J and especially AZ vaccine adoption, will have a much larger impact on worldwide vaccination efforts:
View attachment 459848
I don't believe any of us are discounting the effect of the pause on confidence.
It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
I raised my point to call out one reason for outcry and panic. Report the numbers relative to each other and provide rudimentary explanation, not just "6 cases and one death"!

AstraZeneca had at least two pauses as well.
If they did not acknowledge the reports and show that they are considering it, then there would be public outcry as well and likely more mis-trust.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
Congrats.

told you the military was gonna make it big in the news shooting up civilians! ;)
Also, wait till you see the military's new vaccine. It has much better efficacy for all variants. Just started human trials.
 

BABAR

Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
8,390
Reaction score
3,161
Also, wait till you see the military's new vaccine. It has much better efficacy for all variants. Just started human trials.
Sign me up! Are Vets eligible? I am mostly human.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
Sign me up! Are Vets eligible? I am mostly human.
They can't test it on AD. It uses only a protein to start the immune response. No RNA, no DNA, and no virus.
 

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
1,763
Reaction score
1,714
Location
NE Indiana
They can't test it on AD. It uses only a protein to start the immune response. No RNA, no DNA, and no virus.
How long before we get breakthroughs applying these technologies that are fighting Covid to other diseases and immune system dysfunctions?
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
How long before we get breakthroughs applying these technologies that are fighting Covid to other diseases and immune system dysfunctions?
I can't really release the source or researchers, but they are using mRNA vaccine to try to treat cancers. Some good success.
 

jd2cylman

Still not Carl... ;-)
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
5,009
Reaction score
841
Well, I was scheduled to take the J&J vaccine Thursday. But that got canceled because of the hold. So, I happened to look tonight for the county I work in and they had a time tomorrow late afternoon for Moderna 1st shot. So I booked that bugger...
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
Bump.

Any thoughts on what my wife should do?
Until the review is complete, AZ will probably not be available. I am not sure if the FDA has made a statement on mixing vaccines. At our sites, we give Pfizer and Moderna on a rare occasion that the person received one o the other and their type is not available. Right now, I would not mix immunization schedules.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
Locally, out testing is going up again and our demand for vaccination is dropping. I am not sure that to make of it. Testing has doubled and vaccination schedules are not full. The good news is our positive test rate is really low.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cl(VII)

Chris Bender, Lab Rat
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
985
Location
Garland, TX
Locally, out testing is going up again and out demand for vaccination is dropping. I am nto sure that to make of it. Testing has doubled and vaccination schedules are not full. The good news is out postive test rate is really low.
Let's hope that the increase in testing is people confusing alergy symptoms (and subsequent sinus infections) with respiratory infections, AND that the message of feel bad get tested is being well followed. Sounds like that theory is at least consistent with the low positivity rate at least.
 

John Kemker

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
1,784
Reaction score
761
Just took dose 2 of the Pfizer vaccine yesterday. Today, my arm feels like some bully knuckle-punched me in the arm. Other than that, no side effects that I can tell.

Notes said "effective for up to one year." Does that mean that I'll have to take another next year?
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
Let's hope that the increase in testing is people confusing alergy symptoms (and subsequent sinus infections) with respiratory infections, AND that the message of feel bad get tested is being well followed. Sounds like that theory is at least consistent with the low positivity rate at least.
Let's hope that the increase in testing is people confusing alergy symptoms (and subsequent sinus infections) with respiratory infections, AND that the message of feel bad get tested is being well followed. Sounds like that theory is at least consistent with the low positivity rate at least.
Concur.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Nytrunner

Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
7,876
Reaction score
3,548
Location
Huntsville AL
Just took dose 2 of the Pfizer vaccine yesterday. Today, my arm feels like some bully knuckle-punched me in the arm. Other than that, no side effects that I can tell.

Notes said "effective for up to one year." Does that mean that I'll have to take another next year?
If it's more like the flu as far as yearly mutation rate, yes.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,971
Reaction score
4,456
Location
Glennville, GA
The vaccines are effective for atleast 6 months, but could 18-24 months.
 
Top