Coronavirus: What questions do you have?

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BEC

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Second child (almost 40 years old) got the first dose of Moderna this past Monday morning and has been pretty much staying in bed since and reporting flu symptoms and a sore arm. She did reappear for awhile this evening. However, it’s still better than the alternative.

My wife gets her second Pfizer shot tomorrow morning. We have a couple of busy days ahead, so I hope she’s not too strongly hit by it. We shall see....
 

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Part of my takeaway from this is that if the entire emergency program and EUA is paused because of six cases, that is in itself outstanding evidence that they ARE taking safety very seriously. We acept one in a million risk for practically everything we do during the course of our day. Compared to many, totally ordinary, daily activities, one in a million barely shows up on our radar.

Chances of Death:

Riding in an automobile - 1 in 6,700
Canoeing - 1 in 10,000
Playing football - 1 in 50,000
Skydiving - 101,183
Bicycling - 1 in 140,845
Running and jogging - 1 in 1,000,000
Swimming - 1 in 1,000,000
With respect, you really need to take those "statistics" with a grain of salt. People toss these around all the time without a second thought. For example, is the auto fatality risk per passenger mile, per year, or per lifetime? In what population? Is the skydiving risk per jump, per 1000 jumps, or per hobby/career duration? Is the swimming per event, per hour, per mile, per lifetime? Who calculated these values and how? and over what time frame or event number--this specification is essential to any numerical estimate of risk. Let's take drowning deaths. Between 1999-2010, the CDC (usually reliable) says 3868 people on average drowned per year in the US https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db149.pdf . So, given our population (let's use 350 million for convenience sake), that makes 1:1,000,000 odds (per year) pretty unlikely. Closer to 1:100,000 per year. But wait. If you are female, 25% of drowning deaths occured in the bathtub (about 6% for men)! So...swimming? Where? Without clear delineation of precisely how these numbers were arrived at, and what time frame/event number they are specifying, these "risk ratios" are really not of all that much use.

And essentially all of the numbers regarding Sars Cov-2 are new, incomplete, and subject to revision. The risks might be under-reported or adverse reactions might be yet-to-develop. A portion of the medical community is concerned about the possibility of Covid, or the vaccine, possibly initiating or exacerbating various autoimmune or inflammatory conditions. This is perhaps best suggested by the increasing number of reports of exacerbation and/or triggering of gout flare-ups, an inflammatory condition (not autoimmune, though), after vaccination (https://www.podiatrytoday.com/blogged/can-vaccines-contribute-gout-flares). Conversely, the risks might be overstated if rare conditions randomly become slightly less rare, like cerebral venous blood clots in the J&J women (18-48 y/o). Caused by the vaccine? Possible but hard to definitively link causality with rare events. Were those younger women taking oral contraceptives that are known by themselves to increase risk of blood clots/thrombosis? Not reported yet, but possible. But only around 15% of US women in that age group use oral contraception (again, CDC...). Are there other risk factors for developing an adverse reaction? Probably. Do they differ by vaccine type? Probably. True, and good that so far the serious possibly vaccine-related adverse reactions have been rare, and in most instances indistinguishable from the background incidence of these serious but rare conditions. Things should become more clear with additional surveillance time and as more vaccinations are administered; whether these "possibly" related reactions are "probably" or "definitely" related to vaccines. And what level of risk becomes unacceptable risk?
 

SharkWhisperer

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Different antigen tests have different specificities. As long as the antibody test is looking for something other than the piece of spike protein used in the vaccine, should be ok.
Both the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines encode the entire spike protein (original version, not new & improved variants...yet). And antibodies, even monoclonals, rarely have 100% specificity in binding design targets only.
 

PatD

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Maybe I'm an outlier but I got the 1st Moderna shot a couple of weeks ago. No reaction but a slightly sore arm, as I've had with other vaccinations. Guess we'll see if the second one is more difficult. Having been in the Army and receiving a number of vaccinations, some experimental, with only one fairly serious reaction, I think I will be fine. Guess we'll see. I did give myself some time to get over it if I have a poor reaction to the second dose. I would say "better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick" but a lot of folks won't get it. :D
 

SecondRow

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Maybe I'm an outlier but I got the 1st Moderna shot a couple of weeks ago. No reaction but a slightly sore arm, as I've had with other vaccinations. Guess we'll see if the second one is more difficult. Having been in the Army and receiving a number of vaccinations, some experimental, with only one fairly serious reaction, I think I will be fine. Guess we'll see. I did give myself some time to get over it if I have a poor reaction to the second dose. I would say "better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick" but a lot of folks won't get it. :D
I had nothing more than a sore arm for both of my Moderna shots. My wife got Pfizer and both of them hit her hard.
 

cwbullet

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I had nothing more than a sore arm for both of my Moderna shots. My wife got Pfizer and both of them hit her hard.
Pfizer is less likely to do that but then again that only matters if you don't get symptoms.
 

rocketsaway

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Along with regular school bus runs, Ive been running after school sports teams alot lately. Baseball, track, softball, soccer, etc.
Ill travel between 3-4 counties.
What Ive been witnessing is total paranoia and insanity. They(the schools) have these kids running outside with masks on.
I watched a 7th grade relay track run with masks. A high school baseball game, in 80 degree weather, with masks on. Soccer with masks.
There are very few recorded instances of outdoor transmission. Plus, these events take place in large open fields with no "stadium" venue.
Each school has its own different protocol.

None of the school districts in my area have had lockdown due to a spread since fall. Most all are open 5 days a week.
 

dhbarr

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Along with regular school bus runs, Ive been running after school sports teams alot lately. Baseball, track, softball, soccer, etc.
Ill travel between 3-4 counties.
What Ive been witnessing is total paranoia and insanity. They(the schools) have these kids running outside with masks on.
I watched a 7th grade relay track run with masks. A high school baseball game, in 80 degree weather, with masks on. Soccer with masks.
There are very few recorded instances of outdoor transmission. Plus, these events take place in large open fields with no "stadium" venue.
Each school has its own different protocol.

None of the school districts in my area have had lockdown due to a spread since fall. Most all are open 5 days a week.
It turns out a lot of school policies are based more on loud fearful parents than on science of any kind. On the other end of the spectrum you have people holding mask-burning parties indoors.

Fortunately most folks don't seem to be at either extreme.
 

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It turns out a lot of school policies are based more on loud fearful parents than on science of any kind. On the other end of the spectrum you have people holding mask-burning parties indoors.

Fortunately most folks don't seem to be at either extreme.
You can't fix stupid on either side of the extreme. Moderates are a dying breed.
 

ksaves2

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Maybe I'm an outlier but I got the 1st Moderna shot a couple of weeks ago. No reaction but a slightly sore arm, as I've had with other vaccinations. Guess we'll see if the second one is more difficult. Having been in the Army and receiving a number of vaccinations, some experimental, with only one fairly serious reaction, I think I will be fine. Guess we'll see. I did give myself some time to get over it if I have a poor reaction to the second dose. I would say "better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick" but a lot of folks won't get it. :D
Got Moderna #1 without issue. My 26 year old son got his at the same time (he has an autistic spectrum disorder that qualified him)
We both got # 2 yesterday and we both were wiped out Sunday morning. I started feeling like donkey dung at 01:00h Sunday morning and am glad I went to Saturday night Mass. I wouldn't have made Sunday services. Low grade temp with global aches which by now (1430) are better but I'm not back to 100% just yet.
I've heard from folks who have had no problems and others who were knocked down for 3 days. I'm retired so doesn't matter to me. I'd rather get some side effects than die from the disease itself. One who's getting ready for #2 try to do it on a Saturday so if you're unlucky and feel punk the next day, won't mess up your work schedule.
Some folks are telling me they are concerned whether or not they are immune if they don't have any reactions. I live in a rural area and social distancing is very easily carried out here. I tell them just like the authorities say is to still practice the good hygiene, masks etc. vaccine or no.
The academics will likely come out with studies exploring the issues of whether or not the vaccine in a person who has no side effects still confers protection as well as how long the protection will last and whether or not we'll be subjected to having get booster shots. All that is up in the air. Current goal is to cut the disease rate and deaths.
I used to M.D. for a living and retired last July 1st. My son and I went to a High School gym to get the shots and I recognized all the nurses and staff I used to work with. I took one nurse aside I worked with closely and asked, "Renee, have you guys seen any immediate reactions (like anaphylaxis) to the vaccine?" She smiled and said, "Oh no Doctor. Haven't had a problem." She'd been doing this for several months mind you. So it's reassuring.
Yeah J&J had some blood clotting but cripes that was out of something like 8,000,000,000 doses! Those aren't bad odds if you ask me.
Some minor aches, pains, fevers and feeling "punk" for a day or so is worth it to me to avoid dying of this stupid malady.
Oh I did some research and the "Great Influenza" of 1918 still has killed millions more than Covid-19. Covid is not even close. Go ahead and Google it. That was even a more terrifying time to live than now. Also read John Barry's book the "Great Influenza" from a few years back for a good scare.
Difference between then and now is back then they didn't know much about viruses or what was causing the flu. Now the scientists know exactly what's causing disease and hence the fact we got vaccines out relatively quickly.
The stupidheads out there who are refusing vaccine are just that, "stupidheads". Every mother's uncle's scientist's son or daughter has been working worldwide on Covid vaccines so I don't have an issue with safety.

Kurt
 

OverTheTop

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We have the AstraZeneca down here. Last I heard the major adverse reactions (clotting, thrombocytopenia) were at 20-40 per million, with a 25% death rate for those that get to that point. They are recommending Pfizer for people under 50 as the risk goes up as the age goes down. We have almost zero covid here, which is a good thing.

My wife had the AZ vaccine about two weeks ago. She is getting some additional bruising but that may be due to the low-dose aspirin she is taking to mitigate clotting.

Father in-law had the AZ vaccine yesterday. Only local heating of the injection site so far, and that subsided within hours.
 

ksaves2

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We have the AstraZeneca down here. Last I heard the major adverse reactions (clotting, thrombocytopenia) were at 20-40 per million, with a 25% death rate for those that get to that point. They are recommending Pfizer for people under 50 as the risk goes up as the age goes down. We have almost zero covid here, which is a good thing.

My wife had the AZ vaccine about two weeks ago. She is getting some additional bruising but that may be due to the low-dose aspirin she is taking to mitigate clotting.

Father in-law had the AZ vaccine yesterday. Only local heating of the injection site so far, and that subsided within hours.
I would like to know and I suspect some researchers are going to be looking into the particulars of the unfortunate ones who suffered a deep venous thrombosis (DVT in medical parlance) and death.
It's important to know if those that suffered death had other health conditions, (#1 obesity, #2 lung disease, #3 diabetes #4 heart disease #5 prior history of DVT, #6 Aged state etc.) Mark my words, there is going to be some very smart people looking at this.
Perhaps that's the reason the J&J vaccine came back online. The experts might have seen a pattern that suggests most folks are less likely to suffer death from the vaccine. With time they'll come up with some ideas and explanations.
A nurse who worked for me has a son who is a pharmacist that works in a large out of state hospital in a major city. Early on in the epidemic he called his mom and said, "Mom, do you know what the common denominator is for all the Covid patients on ventilators in my hospital?" (At that time.) She said, "No." He replied, "They're all obese."
A sobering fact if you ask me.
Darn, my left shoulder is still sore at day +2 from the second injection but I no longer feel like donkey dung with global muscle aches. Am trying to convince myself my immune system is going bonkers processing the vaccine and that maybe, just maybe I'll be immune. I am not going to foresake the current hygiene recommendations out in public whatsoever.
Kurt
 

NateB

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When I hear about the J&J vaccine and clotting problems with 1:1,000,000 patients, I have to wonder about the rate of DVTs and similar clotting issues overall. Serious DVTs causing pulseless legs and PEs (particularly saddle PEs) are common flight requests for us from rural hospitals to larger ones for care. If I had to guess, these clotting problems have a higher than 1 in million, even without the covid vaccines in the picture.
 

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Georgia has one of the lowest immunization rates and one fo the lowest infection rates. Heck, after this weekend, it might even had the lowest mask rates. Not sure what to make fo It.
 

Peartree

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With my church congregation debating a return to in-person worship, I spent a fair amount of time online trying to find applicable current recommendations. This is especially difficult because recommendations (for just about everything) have been changing so quickly and many sites that post recommendations don't date them so you can't tell if they are current.

As nearly as I can find, the CDC and others continue to recommend that groups do not meet indoors but theater and musical performances are still allowed. In Ohio, venues are asked to enforce social distancing and limit attendance to 25 percent of capacity. In some places, singing is entirely proscribed but in others masks and increased spacing are recommended. Even that, however, seems to be for performers and group singing of any kind continues to be proscribed (although I know of churches that feel safe doing it "as long as everyone wears a mask").

For what it's worth, my informal poll suggests that 80 to 90 percent of our congregation has received both doses of the available vaccines.

Does this sound like an accurate summary of the current state of affairs?

I remain reluctant to return based on the current guidelines and recommendations that I'm seeing, but we've been shut down for over a year and people are getting "itchy" to meet in person. (Oddly, some of the same people who are pushing for 80 people to worship in person, are still meeting with their Sunday school classes and church committees via Zoom.)

What recommendations would you make for churches and other groups that are thinking about a return to in-person meetings?
 
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NateB

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@Peartree I am glad you are asking these questions in behalf of your parishioners. The church associated with my son's school is planning in resuming in person services after Memorial Day.

Back in March, I attended a musical put on my mom's school where she is one of the assistant directors and costume designer. Some of the performers wore masks, but the students in the main roles did not. Masks were required in the audience. They only sold about 30% of their capacity. People were seated in every-other row, individuals who purchased tickets together were seated next to each other, and each group was seated 3-4 seats apart. Obviously nobody was signing along except the performers. I was comfortable with this.

I'm 38, healthy, and vaccinated. My entire family except my 5 yr old have had both doses as well. Personally, Iwould be comfortable in a typical church setting. I'd wear a mask without complaint when requested and think it is probably still the best practice indoors. Outdoors, I'd be comfortable with most activities without masks, but will still wear one whenever requested.
 

afadeev

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Georgia has one of the lowest immunization rates and one fo the lowest infection rates. Heck, after this weekend, it might even had the lowest mask rates. Not sure what to make fo It.
You are right on GA trailing in immunization rate (#4 from the bottom as measured by fully vaccinated % of population, ahead of AL, UT, and MS), but mistaken on the GA infection rate.
GA is not doing great in the infection rate per 1M of population - it is #21 from the bottom among the 50 states (definitely above the National average). #17 from the bottom in deaths per 1M of population.


I can't comment on the mask wearing take rates, since I haven't visited GA post pandemic. However, I can personally validate that mask wearing drops as you drive either South, or into more rural areas. In NC, SC and TX masks are increasingly optional.
Not great, but not surprising either.
16+ months of this pandemic have been more than enough to exhaust compliance patience of most folks, even if our politicians weren't bickering about the subject matter.

So now we are in the race between vaccination rate vs. prevention compliance slacking rates.

I suspect the outcomes will be vary dramatically across regions, states, and population centers.
What's more unfortunate, is that everyone's willingness to be sympathetic to Covid patients and healthcare professionals, who bear the brunt of the workload, will decline. Those who got vaccinated will look down on those who didn't and got sick. Those who didn't vaccinate will continue to pretend that Covid is not that big of a deal/not-real, and look down on/ridicule on the afflicted.

It is what it is.

a
 
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BEC

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Our parish is operating pretty much like NateB's musical experience. Very limited capacity, every other pew blocked off and people/families within a given pew widely separated. No congregational singing. We've just brought back a little sung music, by a cantor who is inside a clear plastic-walled box while singing (maskless). I am also able to play my recorders and whistles in the box (with a partition between me and the cantor).

All Mass responses are spoken and only the celebrant or the reader at the ambo are maskless outside the plastic box, and only one at a time.

This arrangement (except for the cantor) has been in place since we got the clear plastic partitions in the winter.

We don't have room to go up to 50% capacity and still maintain distance between family groups, even though the state now permits this.

But we CAN attend and receive the Eucharist, which is MUCH nicer than watching on line (we are still streaming one Mass per weekend, as well).
 

ksaves2

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When I hear about the J&J vaccine and clotting problems with 1:1,000,000 patients, I have to wonder about the rate of DVTs and similar clotting issues overall. Serious DVTs causing pulseless legs and PEs (particularly saddle PEs) are common flight requests for us from rural hospitals to larger ones for care. If I had to guess, these clotting problems have a higher than 1 in million, even without the covid vaccines in the picture.
Point of clarification here. Deep venous thrombosis is on the low pressure venous side. Pulseless legs are generally caused by an arterial occlusion that results in a pale cold leg. Could a massive DVT cause an arterial occlusion? Perhaps but that would result in a very edematous leg due to the blocked venous outflow. There is another syndrome called compartment syndrome which I will leave out of this discussion that can cause a pulseless limb. It’s quite obvious in that it usually results from a massive crush injury to large muscle masses like in the legs. When that is the case, the medicos keep constant watch because if a compartment syndrom develops, they have to take the person to surgery and fillet open the skin over the different muscle compartments to allow the muscles to swell so not to cut off arterial flow. I saw that done a few times in my training and the folks had a good outcome if they survived their other traumas.

An acute arterial occlusion causes a cold, pulseless limb that BTW is painful and not necessarily swollen.

What causes arterial occlusion? Usually athero sclerosis is the number one cause. Arterial flow is cut down so much a clot finally blocks the vessel. Or there is an irregularly shaped arterial plaque that has flow eddies associated with it that allows the clotting cascade to start and form a clot that breaks off and goes downstream on the arterial side. If blood sits in one place and is not kept moving, it likes to clot. Just a given fact of nature.

Another cause is atrial fibrillation. I recall the time when a seemingly healthy, normal weight, older 70ish lady who came in the ER with a cold leg. The EKG showed atrial fibrillation that she didn’t know she had as she was asymptomatic.
We were blessed at the time with a local vascular surgeon who came in, documented the clot angiographically and pulled it out through the groin with a Fogarty/balloon catheter. She did fine and her leg was saved. (She was placed on lifelong blood thinner after that which at the time was Coumadin/Warfarin.)

The scenario is the clot formed in the left atrium and broke off. Most of the time it goes up a carotid artery and causes a stroke. This lady lucked out in that the clot bounced around her aortic arch and by a miracle shot down into her leg.
Occlude an artery to a limb and one has some time to deal with it as opposed to a clot getting shot up into the brain. She got out of the hospital neurologically intact with a good leg.

DVT if a clot breaks off in the leg, it’s on the venous side. It heads for the right atrium through the inferior vena cava, right ventricle and then gets lodged in the lung. If enough of a clot load hits the lung through the right side of the heart, it’s called a pulmonary embolus and can be curtains for the sufferer. I’ve seen a few “saves” in the past from this too but everything has to be in place to pull it off. Sort of a“vapor lock“ as blood can’t get to the lung to be oxygenated.

Smaller clot load in the lungs can be treated medically though we always try to pinpoint a cause.

Clots have to be delineated as to whether they come from the arterial side (usually arteriosclerosis) or venous side (usually deep venous thrombosis.)

There are exceptions to the rules though and that’s where the vascular surgeon or interventional radiologist and sometimes a cardiologist earns their keep.

Kurt
 
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cwbullet

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You are right on GA trailing in immunization rate (#4 from the bottom as measured by fully vaccinated % of population, ahead of AL, UT, and MS), but mistaken on the GA infection rate.
GA is in the lower half of the pack in the infection rate per 1M of population - it is #21 among the 50 states (definitely above the National average). #17 in deaths per 1M of population.


I can't comment on the mask wearing take rates, since I haven't visited GA post pandemic. However, I can personally validate that mask wearing drops as you drive either South, or into more rural areas. In NC, SC and TX masks are increasingly optional.
Not great, but not surprising either.
16+ months of this pandemic have been more than enough to exhaust compliance patience of most folks, even if our politicians weren't bickering about the subject matter.

So now we are in the race to max out vaccination rate vs. prevention compliance slacking rates.
I suspect the outcomes will be vary dramatically across regions, states, and population centers.
What's more unfortunate, is that everyone's willingness to be sympathetic to Covid patients and Doctors will take a nose dive: those who got vaccinated will look down on those who didn't and got sick; those who didn't vaccinate will continue to pretend that Covid is not that big of a deal/not-real ,anyway and ignore/ridicule the afflicted.

It is what it is.

a
I am a Libertarian. I am not into mandates. I am just concerned that public may be overlooking the size of the risk. Even if the serious infection rate were 0.1 percent, we could be looking at 100K more deaths.
 

cwbullet

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You are right on GA trailing in immunization rate (#4 from the bottom as measured by fully vaccinated % of population, ahead of AL, UT, and MS), but mistaken on the GA infection rate.
GA is in the lower half of the pack in the infection rate per 1M of population - it is #21 among the 50 states (definitely above the National average). #17 in deaths per 1M of population.


I can't comment on the mask wearing take rates, since I haven't visited GA post pandemic. However, I can personally validate that mask wearing drops as you drive either South, or into more rural areas. In NC, SC and TX masks are increasingly optional.
Not great, but not surprising either.
16+ months of this pandemic have been more than enough to exhaust compliance patience of most folks, even if our politicians weren't bickering about the subject matter.

So now we are in the race to max out vaccination rate vs. prevention compliance slacking rates.
I suspect the outcomes will be vary dramatically across regions, states, and population centers.
What's more unfortunate, is that everyone's willingness to be sympathetic to Covid patients and Doctors will take a nose dive: those who got vaccinated will look down on those who didn't and got sick; those who didn't vaccinate will continue to pretend that Covid is not that big of a deal/not-real ,anyway and ignore/ridicule the afflicted.

It is what it is.

a
You are right. I should have said lower infection rates. It is increasing slightly though.
 

dhbarr

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Our congregation has the following setup:
* main auditorium in line with state / local
* video broadcast to the gym, masks mandatory, extra-extra distance
* FM broadcast to the parking lot
* FB live for those at home
 

Peartree

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Our congregation has the following setup:
* main auditorium in line with state / local
* video broadcast to the gym, masks mandatory, extra-extra distance
* FM broadcast to the parking lot
* FB live for those at home
That's helpful. A part of our discussion is which indoor venue to use. Our sanctuary is enormous with plenty of room for as much distance as we might desire. BUT, it has hot water heat, almost no ventilation, little replacement air, and zero filtration. Our fellowship hall is our usual "summer home" because it has air conditioning as well as circulating air and HEPA filtration BUT it's a lot smaller and we would have to limit attendance to 50 or less (in the main room, adding a few more in and adjacent room and the kitchen). So we essentially have to choose whether we want lots of space or proper air movement and filtration but we can't have both. We do have a parking lot service once each month, I like your idea of broadcasting to the parking lot AND video (which for us has been YouTube). Our Worship Committee meets tonight (via Zoom) to discuss it further as a group.

I did contact a Speech-Language Pathologist from the Emory Voice Center at Emory University and their current recommendations continue to be that there be no indoor group singing.

https://www.emoryhealthcare.org/centers-programs/voice-center/covid-updates-choral-singers.pdf
 

ksaves2

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Our congregation has the following setup:
* main auditorium in line with state / local
* video broadcast to the gym, masks mandatory, extra-extra distance
* FM broadcast to the parking lot
* FB live for those at home
Same with us. Early on our Catholic bishop rightfully shut down live Masses. Services were streamed online and when the weather was good, Mass would be held outdoors (like a drive-in movie mind you!) with the audio over FM radio. That was kinda neat. Reminded me of my college days at a Catholic college where the Benedictines would hold some Masses outside in good weather.
Now at the current time, live services are held but with significant spacing. Every other pew is used with 6 feet in between. Usually there are folks on each side and that's it. Families are kept together. If the church is filled, there is FM transmission of audio to the parking lot for folks in cars. Though that doesn't happen too often. Oh, I forgot, masks are required too. Nonetheless, I try to get there early but most of the time, everyone can fit into the church.
I'm day +3 from the number two Moderna shot and have just a slight sore arm. Day +1 from the injection stunk totally with a low grade temp and global myalgias (muscle aching) that really took me down. I hardly did anything on Sunday.
I'd recommend when one gets shot two of the two shot series to have it so they can take the day off the second day if necessary and employers should be sympathetic to that possible outcome of feeling under the weather for a day. Some folks don't experience that and may or may not be lucky for it. A neighbor lady of mine had zero problems with the #2 Moderna but is concerned because she is on chronic anti-inflammatory steroids for a legit medical condition. Her husband was wiped out for a day with #2 and she's worried about having incomplete immunity. I told her to continue the recommend hygiene procedures (as we all should immunization or no) and she whole heartily agreed. Theoretically she might not have complete immunity with steroid suppression of her immune system but being in a rural area, that affords us/her some protection. We're at 46 deaths and a death rate of 264 per 100,000 out of a population of 17,439 since the start of the pandemic.
I'm nearly back to normal (slightly sore arm) and would do it again if I have to.
Ahhhhhhh, If it turns out later that a booster injection is required yearly to continue coverage against mutated strains, I'll plan accordingly! Easier since retirement.
Kurt Savegnago
 

boatgeek

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That's helpful. A part of our discussion is which indoor venue to use. Our sanctuary is enormous with plenty of room for as much distance as we might desire. BUT, it has hot water heat, almost no ventilation, little replacement air, and zero filtration. Our fellowship hall is our usual "summer home" because it has air conditioning as well as circulating air and HEPA filtration BUT it's a lot smaller and we would have to limit attendance to 50 or less (in the main room, adding a few more in and adjacent room and the kitchen). So we essentially have to choose whether we want lots of space or proper air movement and filtration but we can't have both. We do have a parking lot service once each month, I like your idea of broadcasting to the parking lot AND video (which for us has been YouTube). Our Worship Committee meets tonight (via Zoom) to discuss it further as a group.

I did contact a Speech-Language Pathologist from the Emory Voice Center at Emory University and their current recommendations continue to be that there be no indoor group singing.

https://www.emoryhealthcare.org/centers-programs/voice-center/covid-updates-choral-singers.pdf
If it was me, I'd go with the smaller room with ventilation. If there's not much air exchange, the spacing doesn't seem like it would help as much over the course of a service.

I am not a doctor, epidemiologist, or churchgoer, so take everything with a grain of salt. :D
 

Peartree

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IMG_20200809_072025770.jpg

If it was me, I'd go with the smaller room with ventilation. If there's not much air exchange, the spacing doesn't seem like it would help as much over the course of a service.

I am not a doctor, epidemiologist, or churchgoer, so take everything with a grain of salt. :D

The thing is, there may not be a lot of air *exchange* but there's a LOT of air. 🙂
 

Reinhard

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Georgia has one of the lowest immunization rates and one fo the lowest infection rates. Heck, after this weekend, it might even had the lowest mask rates. Not sure what to make fo It.
Vaccination rates don't influence infection rates directly, but the reproductive number instead. So I think it makes sense to compare Georgias current infection rates to those a couple weeks ago.

Based on a quick and sloppy analysis, it appears Georgia is doing a little bit better, than one might expect from vaccination numbers alone, but not by so much that it would look like an outlier among US states. The below plot compares the current incidence compared to the incidence 2 weeks ago vs. the vaccination rate 2 weeks ago (hard to pick a good time for that). The dotted line is a linear regression.

1619641506331.png

Generally, those states that had more than 55 doses administered per 100 people tended to be able to reduce their COVID numbers. But that is with COVID measures still in place.

Reinhard
 

Sandy H.

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Peartree:

What a beautiful sanctuary.

All:

Given the concern presented by Peartree, are there commercially available 'stand-alone' air circulators with HEPA filters? I know DIY guys take typical box fans, duct-tape on filters etc., all the time for spray booths or other air filtration needs. I have a dust collector for the wood shop that hangs from the ceiling and filters the tiny dust from woodworking (note that this is a commercial unit and is layer #2 of protection, not the primary. There is a dedicated ducted dust collector outside that is piped to machines. . . or at least there was before stuff went into storage. . .).

Both of the woodworking dust collectors are way too loud for use in a church environment and wouldn't necessarily have the right level of filtration, but they turn air over like there's no tomorrow.

Given that most HVAC companies fabricate sheetmetal and have access to lower noise blowers, would it be practical for companies like that to donate time and materials to help move the air in the sanctuary? Also not sure if the typical big box store filters would do a good enough job of helping or not.

I only ask, because I see a sanctuary like Peartree posted and know there are many more like it all over the US and while some are low attendance, others are not and limiting to 50 people would be 'almost pointless' based on the size of the congregation.

Probably a ton of reasons it isn't logical, as if it were, there would be somebody doing it already. Just curious what the limitations are.

Sandy.
 

Jmhepworth

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Peartree:

What a beautiful sanctuary.

All:

Given the concern presented by Peartree, are there commercially available 'stand-alone' air circulators with HEPA filters? I know DIY guys take typical box fans, duct-tape on filters etc., all the time for spray booths or other air filtration needs. I have a dust collector for the wood shop that hangs from the ceiling and filters the tiny dust from woodworking (note that this is a commercial unit and is layer #2 of protection, not the primary. There is a dedicated ducted dust collector outside that is piped to machines. . . or at least there was before stuff went into storage. . .).

Both of the woodworking dust collectors are way too loud for use in a church environment and wouldn't necessarily have the right level of filtration, but they turn air over like there's no tomorrow.

Given that most HVAC companies fabricate sheetmetal and have access to lower noise blowers, would it be practical for companies like that to donate time and materials to help move the air in the sanctuary? Also not sure if the typical big box store filters would do a good enough job of helping or not.

I only ask, because I see a sanctuary like Peartree posted and know there are many more like it all over the US and while some are low attendance, others are not and limiting to 50 people would be 'almost pointless' based on the size of the congregation.

Probably a ton of reasons it isn't logical, as if it were, there would be somebody doing it already. Just curious what the limitations are.

Sandy.
I work in a company of engineers, so when the COVID crisis first hit a year ago, we looked for engineering solutions. We upgraded the filter in our HVAC system to HEPA filters, limited the number of people that could be in conference rooms to maintain 6 foot separation (even removing chairs from the rooms), and put one of these in all of our conference rooms and restrooms. In larger rooms, we put more than one. I don’t know if they would work for a sanctuary, but the HEPA filter in the HVAC system might.

 
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