Continuity test circuit voltage

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rsbhunter

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I am starting to gather componets to build a launch controller. I have pretty much figured out the circuitry for the power supply, key switch , led's, etc. The one thing that has me lost is the continuity circuit. How can you run voltage/amperage through a igniter or e match without causing a "situation". I have ignited e matches using a button battery from a watch, not that we use e matches...but? rsbhunter
 
Igniters are fired by amps, not voltage. So you just have to keep the amps below* the "no fire" amp spec for any igniters or matches you might use.

* WELL below. Like 10-20% of the value. 200mA no-fire means you should shoot for something like 20mA for continuity check. Don't take any chances on something firing because it was out of spec!
 
EXACTLY! I hate surprises...I'm guessing that by putting a 390 mA resistor inline, it drops the amperage allowed to the igniter leads until you by pass with the launch button? Electrical schematics are not my strong point. Also, i notice that resistors come in a wattage rating...what wattage is needed, or how is the wattage determined? Thanks, rsbhunter
 
EXACTLY! I hate surprises...I'm guessing that by putting a 390 mA resistor inline, it drops the amperage allowed to the igniter leads until you by pass with the launch button? Electrical schematics are not my strong point. Also, i notice that resistors come in a wattage rating...what wattage is needed, or how is the wattage determined? Thanks, rsbhunter
Respectfully, I would avoid designing launch circuits yourself until you find a mentor whose strong points are electrical schematics and understanding of ohms law. Seriously, this is not a dig against you. Just looking out for your safety.
 
I understand...there are schematics online that show all the needed wiring, I could build a panel that could consist of a simple security key switch, and push button with led to show power, it would suffice for what I need, it was curiosity about the continuity circuit....at almost 70 years old, there's no electrical engineering degree in my future.....but I understand about the safety concern...some of the most dangerous situations end by " but I was sure I had it right"....rsbhunter
 
EXACTLY! I hate surprises...I'm guessing that by putting a 390 mA resistor inline, it drops the amperage allowed to the igniter leads until you by pass with the launch button? Electrical schematics are not my strong point. Also, i notice that resistors come in a wattage rating...what wattage is needed, or how is the wattage determined? Thanks, rsbhunter
Ohms law, V = I x R. Assuming you want to run enough current through a red LED to see it turn on you need at least 10mA, and no more than 20mA (typical values that cover most 3-5mm through-hole LEDs out there). YOU need to be sure that this current is safe for all ignitors you want to use.

Rearrange ohms law to solve for R. R = V / I. I = 0.015 (choosing 15mA as it's in the middle of our range above) and V depends on the highest voltage of your battery, so if you're using a lead acid 12V battery you probably want to use 14.2V, but you will drop ~2V across your LED, so use 12.2V. So for our hypothetical situation above you would want 813R, I'd round that up to 1kR.

To be very clear, I'm not saying any of those are the right numbers, just showing you how to work out the right numbers.
 
I have built a couple 6 station launch controllers and skipped the continuity tester and never missed it.
I recommend installing a buzzer that sounds when the key switch is on. In the bright sunlight
it is hard to see the indicator light.
 
I understand...there are schematics online that show all the needed wiring, I could build a panel that could consist of a simple security key switch, and push button with led to show power, it would suffice for what I need, it was curiosity about the continuity circuit....at almost 70 years old, there's no electrical engineering degree in my future.....but I understand about the safety concern...some of the most dangerous situations end by " but I was sure I had it right"....rsbhunter

Ohms law, V = I x R. Assuming you want to run enough current through a red LED to see it turn on you need at least 10mA, and no more than 20mA (typical values that cover most 3-5mm through-hole LEDs out there). YOU need to be sure that this current is safe for all ignitors you want to use.

Rearrange ohms law to solve for R. R = V / I. I = 0.015 (choosing 15mA as it's in the middle of our range above) and V depends on the highest voltage of your battery, so if you're using a lead acid 12V battery you probably want to use 14.2V, but you will drop ~2V across your LED, so use 12.2V. So for our hypothetical situation above you would want 813R, I'd round that up to 1kR.

To be very clear, I'm not saying any of those are the right numbers, just showing you how to work out the right numbers.
Thank you, I won't copy and paste any values....mostly, as I said, I was curious about being able to run enough current, amps, to light a led, yet not light an igniter....I don't plan on running anything higher than a g engine, and if I go for level 1 or more, it would be at a launch that has a panel. I'll have at least 50' of wire between panel and launch pad....
 
From what I have read (not independently verified) if you're only firing Quest and Estes ignitors you should be ok if you stay below 20mA. This report showed that the Quest ignitors were more sensitive than Estes and from Dave's sample there was a calculated no fire current of 130mA. As previously mentioned you want to give this some margin of error.

Of course the risk can be mitigated significantly if you only check continuity when the launch pad is cleared and safe (like the Estes launch controllers do).
 
Yes, I have a Aerotech 29/40-120 I will be using on my Madcow DX3 2.6". I don't need a continuity circuit, where I launch, 99% of the time I'm the only person in the area. Wouldn't be holding anybody up if I had to reconnect leads...rsbhunter
 
Then that is how I'm building it..Thank you for that info, I will put in a piezo buzzer for when the key switch is on....I really appreciate the input....rsbhunter
 
Then that is how I'm building it..Thank you for that info, I will put in a piezo buzzer for when the key switch is on....I really appreciate the input....rsbhunter ..I

That will get tiring FAST :D There is one JMRC launch controller that has such a buzzer and when I am doing the launch LCO, talking on the mic, moving the key, and then turning that key back off after takeoff while talking on the mic looking up in the sky and moving the key to off while not looking at it saying "It's still going up like an energizer bunny"...
 
I am with some of the others. Ditch the continuity test. Check continuity of the igniter with a DVM beforehand. Final continuity test when you push the launch button.
 
I use a pizo electric buzzer for my continuity test.
It eliminates the need to 'shade' an LED in order to see it.
Best choice, Piezo buzzers have been used for half a century with no problems with e-matches or flashbulbs... AeroTech's launch controller has a piezo buzzer. Estes launchers use a light bulb, not good.
 
Some LED's are much brighter than others, for the same current. I think 10,000 mcd is probably more than enough to see in daylight, and maybe a quarter of that would be. Obtainable on 20 mA. One thing to keep in mind with LED's is that they come in colors. If you want a red light, it's much better to use a red LED than a white one with a red filter.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/led-indication-discrete/105?s=N4IgjCBcoEwAwDYqgMZQGYEMA2BnApgDQgD2UA2iAgBwwAsSxA7GEwKx0jF220TMsAzAE4uIJsLBxBYiR1HNh7GYupxqY6oLbVOAXWIAHAC5QQAZWMAnAJYA7AOYgAvsQ4zoINJCx4ipCnA6QTg2JAMQEzNLW0cXYgBaGGQvKGsAV38ySEo2MVE9VxAE0U9vDKzAiEKi5JyQbHwAExBCoA
https://theelectronicgoldmine.com/collections/red-leds/products/g21075

You can find some LEDs with the resistor built in.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products...pbJCgDAFcXGrJJOWVisbly6f056rcIFeLbMgwcABMVCyA

Keep in mind that millicandella ratings indicate brightness within a certain viewing angle. If two LED's have the same millicandella rating, but one has a larger viewing angle, it's putting out more light. For an indicator, it's probably best to have a pretty wide viewing angle.

I imagine an additional resistor or a grey filter may be useful for night launches, when 10,000 mcd will probably be blinding.
 
BTW, I have made igniters which probably wouldn't pass a continuity test, but work fine. My VOM takes a while to settle down and then says they are open circuit, i.e. resistance is off the scale.
 
I'm not an electronics guy and I don't know. All I know is that the voltmeter comes up with some reasonable resistance, but just for an instant, and then it give a higher resistance, and within a couple of blinks it's indicating an open circuit, i.e. the resistance is off the scale. The resistance element is graphite in some kind of glop or other. I've seen it with several different kinds of glue, lacquer, etc. With Beacon 537, which is nitrocellulose based, the igniters seem to work quite reliably,. At least until I misplaced that particular tube of glue. Maybe it will still work with Duco. My hobbies would be easier if I could remember where I put things more often.
 
If you don't know what you are doing..... @rsbhunter
Get a friend who does. Your local science teacher, your maker space, ask your librarian for help getting pointed in the correct direction. Some libraries run STEM classes.
Proceeding with so little knowledge is dangerous to you and perhaps others. When things pyro go wrong, it happens VERY quickly.
 
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disregard
I thought a post was directed at me when it wasn't. I thought I'd edited this before. Oh well.
 
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Let me see here. If the tiny bit of twisted wire and glop comes close to exploding when I apply power, it's doing what I want it to do, and when I'm applying power, I'm prepared for it to do just that. How is that going to get me in trouble? If you can't explain that, who are you to say no? Especially when I think you know very little about what I'm doing.
The reply was to the OP. And they were named in that reply.
They clearly do not understand electricity and this seems to be their first-ish adventure into electronics. A firing box connected to an electrical initiator connected to a rocket motor is NOT a starting point anyone should if the OP, or you require assistance, get someone locally who knows how to work with electronic projects to assist.
Read this about halfway down for my credentials
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/what-do-you-do-or-did-for-a-living.184121/post-2534175
 
The reply was to the OP. And they were named in that reply.
They clearly do not understand electricity and this seems to be their first-ish adventure into electronics. A firing box connected to an electrical initiator connected to a rocket motor is NOT a starting point anyone should if the OP, or you require assistance, get someone locally who knows how to work with electronic projects to assist.
Read this about halfway down for my credentials
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/what-do-you-do-or-did-for-a-living.184121/post-2534175
Sorry, I have edited my response to acknowledge that you were responding to the other guy.

Clearly, the guy needs some advice, but at least he's trying to get it.

I've wondered what was typical for continuity testing circuits, so this thread is useful for me as well. Of course, there ARE homemade ematches that will fire at even just 20 mAh, though that's not the usual thing. Here's one:
https://www.nakka-rocketry.net/igniter.html#Ultra
Maybe just the thing for firing an ejection charge, but not something you'd want to use to start the motor at a regular rocket launch. Not without adding a resistor, anyway.
 
EXACTLY! I hate surprises...I'm guessing that by putting a 390 mA resistor inline, it drops the amperage allowed to the igniter leads until you by pass with the launch button? Electrical schematics are not my strong point. Also, i notice that resistors come in a wattage rating...what wattage is needed, or how is the wattage determined? Thanks, rsbhunter
I think you mean ohms, not mA. The latter is a unit of current, i.e. how many thousandths of a coulomb per second. The coulomb being a unit of charge, which you might think of as a certain number of electrons. Or a shortage of that many, depending on the polarity. You COULD have a 390 mA curent regulator, but that's a more complicated beast. Not necessarily expensive, though. I think the venerable LM317 only costs a buck, or less, even now. Maybe a tenth of that in bulk.

This is all V=IR stuff. In other words, simple algebra. So it should be relatively easy to learn. When we get into fancier electronics, I'm lost too.

Let's say that, at your local launch, there is a battery which gives 14 volts if it's just been charged, despite the fact that it's nominally rated for 12 volts. LED's are made that are nominally different voltages. Let's say yours is supposed to get 3 volts. You can't just feed it 3 volts, because it's not necessarily stable. So you want a current regulator or a resistor. We'll go with a resistor, since the power involved is very low, even if we're wasting most of it. If we're trying to keep the current under 20 mA, then it won't be more than 20 mA times 14 volts. Watts are amps times volts, or maybe I should say the voltage drop across the device. So we're looking at no more than about a quarter watt. Somewhat less, because some of it will go to the LED. Anyway, if the drop across the LED is 3 volts, that leaves 11 volts for us to manage. Voltage equals current divided by resistance. A bit of algebra tells us that resistance equals voltage divided by current. In this case, 11 volts divided by 0.02 Amps is 550 ohms. I'm neglecting the resistance of the wiring, which is probably going to be much less.

Someone will probably step in if I've screwed up the math.

I hope that was helpful.

As I recall, the publications of Forest Mims were clear and helpful at times. I don't know if they're still available. Maybe at the library. I don't know for a fact that he covers this particular information, but my guess is yes,

P.S. Current is sort of analogous to water flow, voltage is kind of like pressure. The pressure drop through a pipe is not as simply predictable as the voltage drop though a resistor, but it may still be a somewhat useful analogy.

P.P.S. If we get into something that's not just quasi-static, then I"m probably as lost as you. Circuits involving inductance and capacitance, plus varying current, would stump me.
 
If you don't know what you are doing..... @rsbhunter
Get a friend who does. Your local science teacher, your maker space, ask your librarian for help getting pointed in the correct direction. Some libraries run STEM classes.
Proceeding with so little knowledge is dangerous to you and perhaps others. When things pyro go wrong, it happens VERY quickly.
True, I load for rifles that go up to 60,000 psi....so I know a little about knowing what safety and having knowledge of the task at hand. Plus, my face is approx. 3" from the part that goes "boom". I have decided to go without a continuity circuit. A key on/off, a led for power, and a go button....all that's needed....rsbhunter
 
EXACTLY! I hate surprises...I'm guessing that by putting a 390 mA resistor inline, it drops the amperage allowed to the igniter leads until you by pass with the launch button? Electrical schematics are not my strong point. Also, i notice that resistors come in a wattage rating...what wattage is needed, or how is the wattage determined? Thanks, rsbhunter
Since you are talking about a mA resistor and they are only rated in Ohms (R) and wattage (W), I don't think you really understand what's going on with the continuity circuit.

You might want to go through this https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/series-and-parallel-circuits/all, to gain an understand of what the circuits are and how they work. You will also have a better understanding of what people are talking about when they talk about mA values and how you get the current amount you want.

Good luck and have fun! Learn lots!
 
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