Beefing up an Estes V2 for use with F32-8T engine

[cjp987]

I'm building a couple of Estes V2's. One I'll keep pretty much stock and light, and launch with nothing bigger than a standard E9 engine. The other I want to beef up for use with an F32-8T engine.

What's good about the V2 is:

• Heavy tube stock for engine mount.
• Plastic tail cone
• Through-the-wall fins
• Ok fin stock

What's not so good is:

• Flimsy low power body tube.
• Cardboard engine mount centering rings.

Here's what I have planned to beef it up:

• Paper the fins. I'm using 4 x 6 index cards.
• Paper the centering rings. Also with 4 x 6 index cards.
• Epoxy fillets for fins.
• Epoxy centering rings to body tube (white glue used to attach centering rings to engine mount)
• CA coat the inside of the body tube (except in areas where gluing engine mount centering rings).

I have a few questions

• Is what I've described above good enough, or is the F32-8T going to tear my V2 apart?
• Should I upgrade the body tube? What I currently have is your standard 1mm thick low power tube. Weighs 18g, +3g after CA coating the inside. The 1.8mm thick mid power tube would be about 38g. Besides the added weight, I'd have to order it, and really don't have anything else I need to combine with the order, so it becomes a rather expensive tube.
• Should I use white glue to attach the fins to the engine mount, or would epoxy be better. Keep in mind they are through-the-wall fins, so there's no way to build up fillets on the engine mount.
• Should I upgrade to plywood centering rings (I'd have to order these too).
• Anything else I missed or can improve on?

Thanks.

 

[Chuck]

I built mine stock and it flew great on an E20-4.......I would feel comfortable using an F32 on mine as is.

 

[dpower]

I think a stock build would fly just fine on an F32. The BT is plenty strong. For wood & paper, epoxy just adds weight without strength, wood glue is the strongest. Papering the fins will reduce dings on landing, but not needed for flight strength (just use copier or label paper though, no need for card stock). Maybe strengthen the foreward CRs, but use balsa stringers for minimal weight gain.

I would (and did) use epoxy for fillets, but mostly for looks. Just keep the fillets modest, you don't want too much weight at the rear. Speaking of weight, a method to hold the clay in the NC a little more firmly might be in order, such as a dowel; The kick of an F32 could knock it loose.

I've used no more than an E18, but would have no fear flying it on an F32 (except the fear of losing it!)

 

[Machet_Man]

I just built my V2 over the past week and did many of the modifications that you mentioned. Epoxy for all the glue joints and fillets, 1.3 oz epoxied nosecone weight held in with a wooden dowel. I don' plan to to put her up on anything too powerful but after building the kit I would feel comfortable flying it on a F32 as Chuck mentioned below. Its a great rocket and we cant wait to see how she turns out!

 

[Handeman]

I don't have the V2, but my experience is that stock Estes kits will hold up to F24W and F39T motors without issue. I have a Renegade D that is completely stock, except for a Kevlar shock cord attached to the motor mount, and it flies just fine on the composites. No issues, even with its large fins with the pods on the ends. If that can hold up, a stock V2 shouldn't have any problems at all.

 

[bill_s]

Ok this kit includes nose weight already, that motor adds about .4 oz. so you might need to add about .2 oz. of nose weight to compensate for it, plus more for any other weight added in the rear. Compare the loaded center of gravity (CG) with the light built one with an E9, no further back. Landing is a bigger issue than flight usually for the fins, and I wouldn't suggest increasing the 18" chute due to the altitudes reached unless you really add a lot of weight (over 9 oz. total w/o motor). Otherwise fins should be OK if the balsa is hard (can also soak in some CA).

My simulator also shows a -6 would be a better delay time, although the -8 would be no worse than an E9-6, and someone reported apogee deploy with a D12-5... My Tomahawk (Estes BT-60, but plastic fins and rings, heavier) was awesome on a F32-8T, and that was the right delay time for it, just as sim'd. With the V2 kit, -6 comes up deploying less after apogee with the weight slightly increased (!), though altitude suffers just a bit.

 

[cjp987]

Thanks everyone for the great advise. Sounds like I should be fine with the F32. Some of the mods I've already done (papering fins and centering rings and lined the inside of the BT with CA). I'll probably still epoxy the engine mount to the BT since I've had cases of wood glue causing the BT to indent where the centering rings are glued. This happened recently with my Der Red Max. I read posts from others saying the same.

It will be interesting to compare the weight and performance of the two V2's: one stock and one beefed up. Sorry, but it may be a long while before I report. I doubt I'll get done in less than a month, and it could be until Fall before I can get to the launch site (2+ hours away and no launches after May 4 until November). With some luck I'll be done in time for the April or May launches at Snow Ranch and actually be able to make it out there. Otherwise I'll need to wait until next winter.

 

[Handeman]

It will be interesting to compare the weight and performance of the two V2's: one stock and one beefed up. Sorry, but it may be a long while before I report. I doubt I'll get done in less than a month, and it could be until Fall before I can get to the launch site (2+ hours away and no launches after May 4 until November). With some luck I'll be done in time for the April or May launches at Snow Ranch and actually be able to make it out there. Otherwise I'll need to wait until next winter.

No worries about taking a while. It sounds like you will still be quicker then I am sometimes. I had one kit that took me 16 months to finish.

Just pull up the thread whenever and post again. It's always good to get a little closure.

 

[ClusterNut]

I beefed up a kit a little. Here's the build thread pointer:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?16171-Build-Thread-Estes-V2-Up-power

It is probably okay without any changes but I wanted to make it a bit more rugged for peace of mind. I flew it on an F21-8 with no problem. It flew better than on a variety of E's (Estes and Aerotech), in fact.