3D Printing Bambulabs X1C and P1P vs MK4

[cwbullet]

I am starting my head-to-head testing for a review I will write.

Today, I am printing two things.

https://www.printables.com/model/7980-29mm-motor-retainer
and

My low-power igniter cable wraps.



All will be printed in PETG.

 

[Banzai88]

Watching closely as this will inform my pending purchase

 

[cwbullet]

The 29 mm retainer took 31 minutes to warm up and print on the Bambu labs P1P and A1C (seconds difference). The Mk4 with alpha firmware took 29 minutes. I timed them both, and that was the result. Both include the start.

The wire wrap tool took 1 hr 2 minutes on the Bambu and 1 hr 8 minutes on the Mk4.

To be honest, the quality is the same, but the Bambu Labs prints seem slightly more flexible. It might just be me.

I like all 3 printers, but I am not sold on cloud printing. I know I can turn it off.

Tomorrow is another day.

 

[thzero]

Like anything once a new product that takes things a step forward, x1c, there will be competitors coming to match it.

X1c has been nearly flawless for me and certainly a step ahead of anything out there, except a custom build like a voron, etc. But those don't have a AMS system either.

Ive yet to print TPU, but have done PLA, PETG, PETGCF, and nylon based CF on it. All great though the later is still taking a bit to work out a good profile.

Are there negatives? Sure. But the overall package is quite good especially given the cost, nothing could match it at the time.

One thing, outside of its firmware not being OSS and "cloud printing" I'd say is while appreciate the design of hothead/nozzle from performance perspective it's a bit of a PITA, but not much, to change. Haven't tried 3rd party solutions that have cropped up though.

I've certainly gotten my use out of mine, so much so my old cr6se just sits in a corner.

Pretty much everything I've posted 3d print wise in last year is done on the x1c. And am looking fwd to sending up to new 3d printed birds today.

 

[cwbullet]

I have all three printers. I will tell you that the quality is similar, and the print time is pretty close so far. I am posting some tidbits as I go, but I will post a review soon with the pros and cons.

I want to caveat my response on an issue with Bambu Printers. I have had them both for probably 10-12 months and have done hours of prints. I have also owned the MK4 for four weeks. I have owned an MK3 for five years.

Bambu's First issue: I will say one bad thing so far about the Bambus - they are susceptible to poor filament quality and hydration. I have had five times the jams in the X1C and P1P than in a year with the Mk3s. My P1P has had three partial jams and two total jams in about ten months. The X1C has had similar results. I might have had a single jam each in my first year with the Mk3 of any type or flavor.

Bambu's Second issue: I wouldn't say I like the cloud method of slicing. Bambulabs used a cloud-based system to upload the file and transmit it to the printer. This includes video. I don't particularly appreciate having a device connected to my internet with a camera, and who knows what other sensors are sending information to China? It is a major risk to your home network. That may come off as paranoid, but I think they have given us ample reason to be concerned. Yes, I can turn it off, but they ruin the ability to monitor the print via an app or camera.

Issues with the Mk4: The firmware is still RC. There are bugs in the software. For an RC, I would say that it is no more buggy than many other releases. I can live with it.

All three printers are very good at making a first layer. I would say they are near perfect. The print quality is pretty good. I will say that the Mk4 is much better at printing lettering and fine details. Often with the Bambu's, it can be harder to read unless you make the lettering very large.

 

[wsume99]

Bambu's Second issue: I wouldn't say I like the cloud method of slicing. Bambulabs used a cloud-based system to upload the file and transmit it to the printer. This includes video. I don't particularly appreciate having a device connected to my internet with a camera, and who knows what other sensors are sending information to China? It is a major risk to your home network. That may come off as paranoid, but I think they have given us ample reason to be concerned. Yes, I can turn it off, but they ruin the ability to monitor the print via an app or camera.

Have you tried LAN mode with either Bambu Labs printer? This will allow your printer to operate without any cloud connection but there is some loss of functionality, like the camera on the P1P for example.

I'm interested in the P1S but the cloud centric control is a concern of mine as well. Especially with the recent hiccup their server had which caused prints to start randomly all over the world. Bambu Labs have commented they will enhance LAN mode functionality as a result. If they make changes so you can have the same capability in LAN mode as you get using the cloud then I'd be sold.

 

[cwbullet]

Have you tried LAN mode with either Bambu Labs printer? This will allow your printer to operate without any cloud connection but there is some loss of functionality, like the camera on the P1P for example.

I'm interested in the P1S but the cloud centric control is a concern of mine as well. Especially with the recent hiccup their server had which caused prints to start randomly all over the world. Bambu Labs have commented they will enhance LAN mode functionality as a result. If they make changes so you can have the same capability in LAN mode as you get using the cloud then I'd be sold.

I have, and that is what I was talking about the loss of the ability to monitor a print.

Prusa can monitor prints without a camera and a cloud.

I do like the P1P. I'm not too fond of the cloud.

 

[wsume99]

I have, and that is what I was talking about the loss of the ability to monitor a print.

Prusa can monitor prints without a camera and a cloud.

I do like the P1P. I'm not too fond of the cloud.

I thought that's what you meant but wanted to be sure. Did you stick with LAN mode or switch back to cloud printing so you could monitor the prints?

I think Bambu Labs made a mistake making the cloud printing be an integral part of their workflow. LAN mode and cloud mode should have exactly the same capability.

 

[cwbullet]

I thought that's what you meant but wanted to be sure. Did you stick with LAN mode or switch back to cloud printing so you could monitor the prints?

I think Bambu Labs made a mistake making the cloud printing be an integral part of their workflow. LAN mode and cloud mode should have exactly the same capability.

I am currently in cloud mode and monitoring what is sent out. I am contemplating putting it on its own "network" that is heavily monitored.

 

[Bravo52]

Didn't Bamboo rip off the Prusa Slicer? Not that it matters since the Prusa Slicer is open source, but that business practice coupled with the cloud thing and them forcing you to lose function if you don't use it, will keep me from buy/using one. I'm not of a fan of "my way or the highway" business models.

 

[cwbullet]

Didn't Bamboo rip off the Prusa Slicer? Not that it matters since the Prusa Slicer is open source, but that business practice coupled with the cloud thing and them forcing you to lose function if you don't use it, will keep me from buy/using one. I'm not of a fan of "my way or the highway" business models.

I agree. They implemented PS or Slic3R as their backbone and then copyrighted it (reportedly).

I will post more soon.

 

[cwbullet]

Another print:



I print these to organize the cords of our WilsonFX system.

Today,

I printed 9 of these. two on my XL, two on my Mk4, one on my Mk3S, two on an X1C, and two on the PIP. The quality is pretty equivalent on all 5 printers. I used Creality white PETG The P1P might need tuned into the filament because it had a little stringing.

Mk3S: 3h45m
Mk4: 2h12m
P1P: 2h8m
X1C: 2h8m
XL: two of them in 3h54m

 

[JohnCoker]

Thanks for the direct comparisons.

My other three printers all use cloud as well, and so for me that aspect of the Bambu Labs printer seems normal. In fact, the MarkForged printers don't even have a slicer application; it's entirely on the web.

 

[cwbullet]

Normal? I, for one, will not consider such a security risk normal.

 

[thzero]

No defending or whatever, but BambuStudio is based on PrusaSlicer but its all opensource - there are at least two other projects based on Bambu's version of PS - Orca Slicer and on other.

https://github.com/bambulab/BambuStudio
What they don't have is the hardware code, its all propriety and have no knowledge of its lineage.

As far as cloud thing, yes its knock on Bambu - I too would like a working LAN version with BambuStudio and the printer, amongst I'm sure others. However the cloud connectivity in this space they weren't the first. But Creality and others are doing the same, like it or not.

I've not had issues with filament wetness that I haven't encountered before, but thats only been on two printers so my experience is limited.

 

[cwbullet]

No defending or whatever, but BambuStudio is based on PrusaSlicer but its all opensource - there are at least two other projects based on Bambu's version of PS - Orca Slicer and on other.

https://github.com/bambulab/BambuStudio
What they don't have is the hardware code, its all propriety and have no knowledge of its lineage.

As far as cloud thing, yes its knock on Bambu - I too would like a working LAN version with BambuStudio and the printer, amongst I'm sure others. However the cloud connectivity in this space they weren't the first. But Creality and others are doing the same, like it or not.

I've not had issues with filament wetness that I haven't encountered before, but thats only been on two printers so my experience is limited.

It might not be the humidity or wetness of the filament, but I have had more jams. My Anycubics and Prusas rarely jam. The Creality is a different beast.

I agree with the LAN option. You should not lose the feature because you want more privacy.

 

[thzero]

I agree with the LAN option. You should not lose the feature because you want more privacy.

Totally agree there.

Then again I get tech capacity and having to focus on priorities (business vs end user , etc, etc).

But for sure want full LAN option.

 

[cwbullet]

Totally agree there.

Then again I get tech capacity and having to focus on priorities (business vs end user , etc, etc).

But for sure want full LAN option.

One think that I like about the Bambu and MK4 is the ease of replacing a nozzle. The Mk4 is a little easier and less likely to cause damage to the thermistor. Replacing the whole hotend as a unit is nice on the Bambu. Overall, the Prusa is easier (unsure about replacing the heater or thermristor). I have only had to replace the sensor and heater on the Bambu.

Both are fairly easy and neither one has the advantage in this area.

 

[thzero]

One think that I like about the Bambu and MK4 is the ease of replacing a nozzle. The Mk4 is a little easier and less likely to cause damage to the thermistor. Replacing the whole hotend as a unit is nice on the Bambu. Overall, the Prusa is easier (unsure about replacing the heater or thermristor). I have only had to replace the sensor and heater on the Bambu.

Think this is where XL will shine, although at a much higher price point, in that can't each of its up to 5 heads have a different nozzle?

 

[DragonRocketry]

Another print:

View attachment 599206

I print these to organize the cords of our WilsonFX system.

Today,

I printed 9 of these. two on my XL, two on my Mk4, one on my Mk3S, two on an X1C, and two on the PIP. The quality is pretty equivalent on all 5 printers. I used Creality white PETG The P1P might need tuned into the filament because it had a little stringing.

Mk3S: 3h45m
Mk4: 2h12m
P1P: 2h8m
X1C: 2h8m
XL: two of them in 3h54m

Thanks Chuck for putting the mk3s in the mix. I am looking at buying another printer and was torn between just getting another mk3s or spending more and getting the mk4. With the speed difference it may be worth the extra money.

 

[cwbullet]

Thanks Chuck for putting the mk3s in the mix. I am looking at buying another printer and was torn between just getting another mk3s or spending more and getting the mk4. With the speed difference it may be worth the extra money.

It is worth the money. It will print in half the time or faster, and so far, I see no difference in quality. The one place where faster might not be great is strength. Most of the parts we print will not be under that kind of load so they should be fine.

 

[WoShuGui]

It is worth the money. It will print in half the time or faster, and so far, I see no difference in quality. The one place where faster might not be great is strength. Most of the parts we print will not be under that kind of load so they should be fine.

I hope it is/will be ok to print files from the regular MK4 slicer configurations with input shaping firmware and future releases will support both. So far I have had no issues printing regular MK4 sliced files with 5.0.0-RC. Having to swap firmware back and forth to switch between ULTRADETAIL and input shaping speed on the same printer hardware is not very user friendly.

 

[cwbullet]

I hope it is/will be ok to print files from the regular MK4 slicer configurations with input shaping firmware and future releases will support both. So far I have had no issues printing regular MK4 sliced files with 5.0.0-RC. Having to swap firmware back and forth to switch between ULTRADETAIL and input shaping speed on the same printer hardware is not very user friendly.

I do not know their plans, but I will be surprised if they do away with the "slow mode". I also hope they integrate them into the slicer.

 

[WoShuGui]

One think that I like about the Bambu and MK4 is the ease of replacing a nozzle. The Mk4 is a little easier and less likely to cause damage to the thermistor. Replacing the whole hotend as a unit is nice on the Bambu. Overall, the Prusa is easier (unsure about replacing the heater or thermristor). I have only had to replace the sensor and heater on the Bambu.

Both are fairly easy and neither one has the advantage in this area.

On the MK4 how easily does the nozzle screw out of the heat block? Prusa instructs to pre-clean at 250C, so I imagine as the heat block gets dirtier over time it will become harder to remove nozzles until finally one shears off. Would you recommend dedicating a complete hot end assembly to each nozzle as some are suggesting? The assembly is ~$35 versus $28 for a nozzle so a dedicated assembly seems like an investment that would pay off over time.

 

[cwbullet]

On the MK4 how easily does the nozzle screw out of the heat block? Prusa instructs to pre-clean at 250C, so I imagine as the heat block gets dirtier over time it will become harder to remove nozzles until finally one shears off. Would you recommend dedicating a complete hot end assembly to each nozzle as some are suggesting? The assembly is ~$35 versus $28 for a nozzle so a dedicated assembly seems like an investment that would pay off over time.

First, I do not think I will buy another V6 nozzle. I have a bunch, but the new Prusa nozzles seem much easier to replace.

As for the adaptor that allows using your current hoard of nozzles, I recommend setting up a single heat block. Screwing and un-screwing nozzles can weekend the thermistor wiring and lead to failure.

Is this answer sufficient?

 

[alexzogh]

I have, and that is what I was talking about the loss of the ability to monitor a print.

Prusa can monitor prints without a camera and a cloud.

I do like the P1P. I'm not too fond of the cloud.

They finally fixed this a couple of firmware updates ago. I believe the cloud outage they had last month finally pushed them over the edge. I’ve gone lan only mode and am quite happy.

Video explaining it below. Only thing he gets wrong is uploading models. I keep the sd card in and ftp everything to the printer. Almost prefer this now as it keeps a local copy of the gcode on my computer as well as the printer, like octoprint.

 

[cwbullet]

They finally fixed this a couple of firmware updates ago. I believe the cloud outage they had last month finally pushed them over the edge. I’ve gone lan only mode and am quite happy.

Video explaining it below. Only thing he gets wrong is uploading models. I keep the sd card in and ftp everything to the printer. Almost prefer this now as it keeps a local copy of the gcode on my computer as well as the printer, like octoprint.

Thanks for posting this. I am very anti-cloud. It does not fix the open source wishes, but atleast it fixes half the problems I had.

 

[alexzogh]

Thanks for posting this. I am very anti-cloud. It does not fix the open source wishes, but atleast it fixes half the problems I had.

Yes. I was also 'bitten' by their cloud failure. My printer started printing in the middle of the night, ruining a print that had been completed and was sitting on the bed.

Since moving from an old-school vpn to tailscale, I've found it solves almost all of my needs for remote management / viewing of my printers and other equipment. Amazing how far these things have come.

 

[cwbullet]

Yes. I was also 'bitten' by their cloud failure. My printer started printing in the middle of the night, ruining a print that had been completed and was sitting on the bed.

Since moving from an old-school vpn to tailscale, I've found it solves almost all of my needs for remote management / viewing of my printers and other equipment. Amazing how far these things have come.

I am pretty happy with most of my printers—even my Crealities. They each have a special strength.

 

[alexzogh]

FYI, if you are looking for a larger print volume, the qidi x-max 3 is quite good. Modified klipper based (open source), no cloud, and very fast / clean prints. I don’t like it’s looks (kind of like a plastic borg cube), or the ‘built in’ filament box so far but everything else is good.