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Originally posted by Planet Andy
all referred to as "lifestyle networks". Yeah it's a little corporate at the top but I appreciate the stability and benefits. I figure as long as people want to eat we'll be popular AND it keeps me in rockets.:)

Andy
Andy, how about a documentary about food in space? :D
 
Originally posted by Chilly
Anyway, he's been encouraging me to go full-bore and get a second degree in Aero.

Hey...that last post of mine was number 700! Pretty doggone cynical of me for #700, no?

Although my personal experience in the aero industry was pretty bad, I still hesitate to discourage people from aero engineering degrees. Fact is, the aero degree provides a very good general technical background that can be useful in just about any technical field. My concern is when I see people getting aero degrees with the expectation that they'll actually work as aero engineers. Of all of my undergraduate aero engineering friends, I can think of only a few that are still employed as aero engineers. Most, like me, moved on to other things within a few years once they got their taste of that industry. Not to say its universally bad, but the good is pretty hard to find there.
 
Well, my options are either getting a Master's in "Aeronautical Science" thru Embry-Riddle in about 18 months, or a BS in Aero Engineering here at OSU. For a working adult, that one will take, oh, SIX YEARS. Either way my company reimburses me for it. The Master's sounds good but I don't know that it'd be much more than a piece of paper.
My undergrad degree's in English, which means I have a B.A. in B.S. :D
 
Originally posted by illini
Going in, I actually believed that technical competence mattered. Finding the right answer mattered. Physics mattered. Boy was I naive. Technical competence??? HA!!! After ALL other things are considered, then maybe technical competence factors into it.

My dad is now retired, but he spent his entire career at IBM. He started out in the machine shop as a mechanic and worked up from there, apparently extremely good at what he did. At the end of his career he was working side-by-side with degreed engineers and physics whizes and from what I hear it wasn't pretty ("all numbers and no common sense...grumble, grumble"). ;)

Of course, I did only hear *one* side of the story.
 
Originally posted by Mike_BAR
Andy, how about a documentary about food in space? :D


Actually Mike, my wife worked on a series called "Inside Scoop" for the food network and there WAS an episode about NASA food. The episode was entitled "Houston we have a Poblano". The series was cancelled and I don't think FN even runs reruns of it and I have no idea how you would get ahold of a copy. I have no input into which shows are made, they just shoot em long after they've thought of the show and bring me the pieces to edit together.

Andy
 
Originally posted by Chilly
My undergrad degree's in English, which means I have a B.A.
in B.S. :D

I've got ya beat: I've got a B.S. in B.S.

The degree itself isn't good for much, except it looks purty on the wall. Those of us who went into the military officer ranks hardly used our degrees at all - it was all about becoming a lower-to-middle manager. So I learned leadership, management, communications, HR, all those sorts of "corporate" functions on the job. When I got out a couple months ago, I eventually found a home in Aerospace Manufacturing as a program manager. Do I know much about Aero Engineering or Astro Engineering? Not really. Do I know much about machining or metallurgy or CAD/CAM/CAI? Nope. But I do know about getting people to talk to each other, get organized, and work together on a project.

You can see what we make here: Ketema

Can you tell I love my job? :D :D :D

WW
 
Originally posted by Chilly
Well, my options are either getting a Master's in "Aeronautical Science" thru Embry-Riddle in about 18 months, or a BS in Aero Engineering here at OSU. For a working adult, that one will take, oh, SIX YEARS. Either way my company reimburses me for it. The Master's sounds good but I don't know that it'd be much more than a piece of paper.

My undergrad degree's in English, which means I have a B.A. in B.S. :D
Chilly,
I have a Bachelor of Arts in Economics.
I'm well-educated and trained to do nothing! :rolleyes:

Serious now, good luck with the grad school.
 
Since I started the thread, only fair that I chime in!!

I have been reading what is written, and a tear comes to my eye! You guys are great! Thanks for the inspiration!!

I posted, as I am thinking of making a jump to something that I’ve wanted to do for a while. A long while! I even moved from Montreal to Vancouver to try and realize my dream. But that only met with a great job, which only further pushed me to be a great CAD drafter / designer (I worked at Xantrex, if anyone is interested.. designing the enclosures for their switchmode power supplies)

I was to enroll in Emily Carr design institute in Industrial Design. But, for whatever reason, I never seem to get my ‘duck in a row’ to meet deadlines, prerequisites, etc.. Mostly due to work & bad timing I guess.

I have since moved back to Montréal, and have floated from one job to another. I had and OK / good job when I first got back. I then got an ‘in’ for an even better job. Ditch one for eh next. Only to find out that I’ll be working with a$$holes & idiots. It was hard not to smile when I was let go. Next job, and then this one, the current one.

The ‘Get it done now’ then ‘wait’, then the redesign, “because we were a little too busy to really listen to what your concerns were, and we thought you just called us all in here to watch you toot your own horn, but we know see what you intended..” I’m just frustrated with the constant changes, and silly requests..

I feel I am alone here, with little support. And NO feed back on what I do / design. Yet, I do get reprimanded when the design fails. I have identified, that I am the type of person that needs an equal, or a mentor. Someone who can give assurance, guidance, and support.

Recently, I did help a friend with some house building (he’s building his own house, yet seems to have little clue as to how it should go together.) I have renovated a few houses in the past. One helped pay rent while in Vancouver! I would like to think that I am good with my hands, and various tools. I feel I have proven it a few times. People have said I do good work, and am easy to work with.

So, the dream is to design and build furniture, to be a Cabinet maker. To be a craftsman, and create something for the everyday person. Norm Abram is my hero!! (Well, one of them!!)

There is a local college that has a ‘cabinet making course’ which issues a DEC (college certificate). Getting up to do it.. getting enrolled, and then entering a ‘predominantly French’ work environment (gotta love Qweebec!) and the pay cut along with ‘starting at the bottom once again.

So, do I do it? Or trudge about, and find yet another job that ‘promises more’ but is really the same sheep, but in a different coat…..
 
Dr Wogz,

I don't do it for a living but, I do woodworking, cabinetmaking...well actually boatbuilding which is harder...very few square corners on a boat!

You don't really learn that in a "class", I don't feel. You learn that by doing!

Wood is a wonderful thing...and an evil thing...it must be understood.

It's hard to explain...wood is very much like a women...you can't learn about THEM in a class.

There is a "Zen" to woodworking.
 
As far as woodworking is concerned, I would think that there would be some kind of a club or guild or something there in your area where you can talk to people already in the field. There might even be a possibility that you can go and start a pseudo-apprenticeship with one of them in the evenings, where you could learn from an expert, be doing something you enjoy, and acquire skills and knowledge that a class could never teach you. There's something to be said for "Old-School" learning - all these skills didn't use to be taught in classrooms...

WW
 
Originally posted by sandman
...wood is very much like a women...

Hmmm, that might mean Woodwork isn't an ideal choice for me....I'm not great with women! :D
 
My current task is to desig and build a show booth (for a trade show)

This also includes teh shipping crates (which double a demo stands)

I love wood, and have made a few things out of it. Hard, soft, dark & light.. Kitchens, trim works, mitered cuts, and routered pieces

I also build R/C airplanes in my spare time, so.... they fly, and I have received many many comments on my builds.. and tehse from the older 'seasoned' guys..

Granted, it is a talent, and art, to get it to do what you want. Having a peice of paper is a nice thing, and in some instances, required..

The apprenticeship is on my mind.. and will be looking into it..


My first boat was a pram digny, a Sabot, built by a local cabinet maker for his son. What really impressed me was the guy built it in his kitchen, over teh winter!! and that has stuck with me since I got the boat, when I was about 13!! I wanna do that!!!!

I took shop class in hi school, but was dissapointed taht we only got to use the belt sander, and the drill press.. despite all teh other tools in the shop!

can we say 'Lee Valley'? Can we say 'Veritas'? Need I say more?
 
Originally posted by sandman
wood is very much like a women..

Swiss Tony has emigrated to the USA :D

(sorry Colonial cousins you'd need to see the UK comedy prog 'the Fast Show' - I daren't expand on this or I'll get moderated)
 
Dr Wogz,

There is a trade "school" or is it an "arts community" in Minnesota.

I just saw a two episode segment on it on "The Woodwright Shop" A PBS show that does for old non powered hand toold what Norm Abrams does for power tools.

It's called the North House Folk School

At the school you learn;

wooden boat building
kayak building
snowshoe making
making wooden skis
wood carving techniques
the use of "hand" tools...NO MOTORS!
lathe work (tredle and spring-pole)
and a lot more

https://www.northhousefolkschool.com/

I believe it's a 3 month course.
 
Thanks Sandman,

there something like that no too far from me, well, a 4 hr drive! In the town of Perth, Ontario (down the road from Hershey's!!) and they go one better, you can learn to do a 'log cabin'
 
Well, that sounds like what you're looking for.

Expect to spend a bit of cash on the "old style" tools!

They are made in limited runs, understandably, so they aren't cheap but well, they're worth it.

Oh yea, when you learn how to sharpen and hone your blades...watch your neighbors if they come over and borrow anything!

I have a beautiful set of rosewood handled cabinet chisels honed and polished so sharp you could shave with them...well, I caught my neighbor in my garage cleaning the caked on grass under his power lawn mower with one...

My reaction wasn't very pretty!:kill:
 
I had a helper use my 12" straight edge / comb square to open a can of paint. He didn't see what was soo wrong & why I was upset...
 
Dr Wogz,

I just thought I would chime in w/a story for a little inspiration on doing what you feel is best. I just got back from my Uncle's 80th birthday party. It was kind of a fancy family re-union.

Anyway, he had a documentary commisioned on himself and our families history. I never met either one of my grandfathers. They passed before I was born.

To get to the point, when my grandfather turned 12 he was sent out and "bonded" to a farm. His parents could not afford to keep or feed him, so they sent him out to work. I guess this was pretty common around 1900. He worked on the farm for subsistence and became good friends with another gentleman. He met my grandmother, married and started having a family. He and the other gentleman both leased a couple of trucks and started hauling farm goods. During the depression he zigged instead of zagged and actually bought his own truck. That started his milk hauling business. even during a depression, people have to eat. His garage was just down from the house. He eventually bought a tanker as a risk and it just went from there. He had my dad and his brothers as drivers and the business grew into a great success. My uncle talked about how he used to sit at the dinner table and practice his signature because he didn't want people to think he was not educated, even though he only finished the 4th grade. My grandmother did the books for him.

My Uncle was similar in the entrepreneur way. He used to constantly skip school to go down and watch the big bands, Glenn Miller etc..., he went in the service during the war, came out and borrowed some money from his new wife's father. He leased a hotel, eventually sublet it and built a business park around it to attract customers to the hotel. Long story short, he was entrepreneur of the year in Pennsylvania, bought and sold a town from Bethlehem Steel during their tough times, and has done really well. Out of the 6 kids, only my dad went to college, he was a surgeon until a few years back.

Obviously there are risks, but having your own business lets you make the decision on how and when to make it grow. Personally, I tell most people not to kid themselves into thinking that they can get out of school, work for a big business, and then retire. It's not how it used to be. You will have to come up with your own retirement unless you are very forunate.
 
I currently work for an office furniture company, and I do all sorts of stuff there. I can install/deliver, manage asset accounts, have become a little knowledgeable about pharmaceutical production equipment because of some client's accounts, and then there's the mindless stuff like pickup up rental box trucks, office moves, and temporary help management. :p I don't particuarly care for the business, but it was something different from what I've done in the past, and more importantly, 2 years at NC State ran my bank account dry, and I needed a steady job which this place has provided. We are undermanned, and unlike many other employers, we have more business than we can possibly handle. I've never been so busy in my life before, it's good for job security.

But like every job, it's got it's downs as well. First of all, at under 140 employees, it's a fairly small company, and executive management is run by a bunch of guys who went to school together, or worked together at Steelcase. However, it's a very controlling employer, and I'm treated as a robot, as if I make a decision on my own (such as to sign for FedEx packages) I can often get yelled at because I was not told specifically to do so. I'm merely signing after packages are inspected and in good condition and then I deliver them to whomever. I have a brain, and I kind of like to use it. But here, click the program, and send me to my next task, and don't think along the way. Pretty sad, considering I've saved 7 asset accounts from clients who were angered by my management team in the span of a year! Bottom line, it pays the bills, but the benefits get worse each year, and from all of the desks and fireproof cabinets I've moved in the past 4 years, I will make one lucky chiropractor very rich! The job is physical, and if you stay there for a decent length of time, you might get hurt seriously, but you WILL get hurt somehow, but I won't bore you with the details!

In the meantime, I've returned to school part-time to obtain a BS in Criminal Justice Administration and am looking at a few police departments to join. Preferrably, here in Durham, but I have considered departments in Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta, and have been asked to join a small force in Creedmoor, NC. I'm heavily considering it, because down the road, I can transfer to a larger department. My brother joined the Durham PD 2 years ago, and I've taken a few rides with him, and its the kind of work I'd like to do, as Durham has crime problems, and I would personally like to help address those problems. Big things right now are escalating street gangs, and narcotic distribution. Exciting things are happening and will happen for some time to come to fight such a menace. I just want to be a part and do my part in solving the problem.
 
Originally posted by sandman
watch your neighbors if they come over and borrow anything!

In my case it isn't neighbors, it's my wife's family and her friends. They all know "Dave has tools!" and are not bashful about asking for them (demanding to borrow them?)

I fixed the problem by keeping two sets of stuff. I buy cheap tools to leave laying out. If that's not good enough, go buy your own.

My good stuff is 'secret' and I don't even tell my wife about it. (She is not a tool-person and just doesn't get it.) Makes for a little extra effort but a WHOLE lot less frustration.
 
I really enjoy my job right now. I'm a construction manager with Habitat for Humanity. Basically I'm the guy you see when you come out and volunteer. Even though the pace of building houses is about 1/2 when I did commercial work it means a ton more. I don't think I would be doing anything else. Plus, I like to get my hands dirty anyway. I've also thought heavily about going to the local tech school for CNC machining. Where I live there aren't a lot of places to go to get something machined and when you find them it is really expensive. I know I've turned quite a few one off prototypes at 1/2 what other places charge and still made money. Maybe in 5 years I'll try switching to machining full time. I really love working with my hands and can't stand sitting in a cube.


Edward
 
Originally posted by wwattles
For those of us here with degrees in English (Chilly comes to mind), today's Dilbert strip is especially appropriate.

WW

Some things are just too painful to find the humor...
 
Hey Wogz, I know how you feel, since we are so much alike in our interests. I started out to be a graphics artist, but then the computer age came along and those jobs went to crap, so I went onto school and became a draftsman but upon graduation, ended up a foodservice director (i.e. corporate salary slave, worked 120 hour weeks but paid for 40), well I jumped off there and went into electronic manufacturing drafting schematics and programming CNC and Testers. I loved that job, had it for about 10 years until the EC manufacturing bubble busted here in the states and I ended up doing freelance drafting (i.e.; equivalent to standing on a street corner with a "will work for food" sign). I also completed my Masters in Industrial Engineering, and got hired on with my current employer who builds everything from boat trailers to bridges. I like my company, I just hate the demands that the market sets on us. They take 18 months to design and screw around with a project, then award us a bid and expect us to have it built in 30 days, and if there are any problems in their design, they wash their hands of us. It’s frustrating on how the world operates. So many just look out for numeral uno.

I too am a boat builder, mostly small models, but when I was growing up, my neighbor would buy and restore old Cristcraft Runabouts. I spent a few years growing up working with him in his shop and I credit my boatbuilding skills all to him.

I'm currently, after I finish my wife’s kitchen and build a fwe duck boats for some guys at work, planning on building a 14' skiff to sail around the local lake.

That’s if I get any time off. Right now I'm working 120 hour weeks and trying to meet failed deadlines. The only thing that keeps me going IS my employers. This is a family owned company of about 200 employees and we are all family. They pay me well for my time, it’s just hard to deal with the frustration though and lack of time off to enjoy my hobbies.

But at least I have a job, pays well, and good benifits.

Again, I switched careers three times and went back to school four times and I'm only 36. I owe more on my student loans than I do on my house, but I don't regret it. Its not worth working in something you hate, it will make life too short.

Scott
 
Love my job, but the career path is not what I wanted. As an airline captain in the post-911 world, it can suck. The money pilots used to make is gone (maybe forever). I'm not looked up to as a captain, but I'm looked at and treated like a terrorist at the airport. The passengers hate me because the air is bumpy or the FAA or weather is making us late. I like flying and there is nothing else I'd rather do, but the job is not great. I'm gone from home a lot. I just missed my daughter's Christmas play. Working 12+ hour days. Not making money. My net worth is zero or less. I don't even have a savings account yet. I don't own anything either. 22 years of flying (nine at current airline), a master's degree, and a perfect record and I have nothing to show for it. I do it because I love to fly the plane. I take another pay cut next year- Merry Christmas.
 
I enjoy my job but I hate the managment. I cant see thing from there point of veiw cause i cant get my head that far up my butt.
 
What a wonderful topic. Thought I'd never get to express what's really going on in my life right now.

Let's start with my job, I work for a large automotive supplier as a technical assistant. This is no where near where I would like to be, sucks very badly, and I would like to leave as soon as possible. I've been working there for about a year and a half, simply because I'm frozen in a state of career confusion...I'm only 19.

By the way, I'm not trying to bore anyone or make them feel sorry for me, but maybe I can learn something from someone in here. Here's my story...

Throughout most of my schooling (well since about 4th grade), I was the smart kid who didn't do his homework I guess you could say. I've always had a fascination with technology and the sciences, but hated to be pushed to do something. In junior high, I upset the algebra teacher because I was finishing her work before she had showed the class how to do it. I was given a high school math book, and willingly completed more challenging lessons. In 8th grade I ordered a very large calculus book, and focused on it for a while. I was really into math, I even learned nearly 150 digits of PI in one night, just for the heck of it. Towards the end of 8th grade, we completed our state school exams, I ranked number 1 out of about 270 students on the sciences portion. This is when I started to realize that maybe I had some ability.

When I made it to high school, my mindset really started to change. Most of the math and chemistry homework I was getting, I was not completing. I would have ups and downs of when I wanted to show my ability. I was always someone who worked completely on their own, so for some reason I almost started to get angry with what I was being forced to do, even while knowing what I was doing wasn't the best thing to do. My grades had really dropped. Towards the end of that year, I started failing an accelerated algebra class which I was in, which was EASY stuff. It was simply the homework...I hated it. The following year I had to re-take that same class with the same teacher. On the first day of school, our teacher suprised everyone by giving out a fairly large algebra exam. His reason for this is that he wanted to see specifically what his class actually knew, before he planned out a cirriculum. Later that day I was called down to the counselors office. When I got there, my math teacher was also there, holding my exam. He told me that I had ace'd the exam, and that they were moving me to an accelerated geometry. He also issued me the previous credit from the year before. This was amazing for me! It sparked a flame inside me of determination.

Although I could write for days, what eventually ended up happening is descent grades throughout the rest of school, but read on...

I still had that feeling of rebeliousness, and to do things on my own. I started taking easier classes just to slack...the teachers thought I was hopeless. Fortunately, what was really happening outside of school is that I was studing any advanced topic I could find in the local library, or anywhere for that matter. Wherever I went, my books would go, and I was reading. I learned as much physics as possible, it was my passion. I became very interested in Einsteins theory of relativity, and read a few books on it. Maths were also a top priority, as well as photonics and the chemistries, not to mention computer systems.

I ended up getting this job I work now, and then graduated highschool as an "average" student. When I graduated, there were many things that I wanted to cram into my head over the summer, so I could go off to an aeronautical or mechanical engineering school come fall. Things soon after started to upset me, because when I spoke of my dreams, people wouldn't believe in me, simply because of what I had demonstrated to them. If they only knew.

As sure as I was about what I was aiming for, the closer it came to fall, the more confused I was to become. I decided I just couldn't force myself into a decision yet, the summer had gone by, and I was feeling as if I were still in high school, all my friends going to college.

Confused I was, and confused I still am. It's like I'm striving for this dream that might never happen, simply because I don't know which dream is really mine. I can picture careers in my head the way I would love them to be, but afraid of what they really are. The biggest feeling that I have, and am afraid of, is the ones I felt when I had to be forced to do certain things throughout high school. I'm afraid I will go off in pursue of something, and find out my life has become what I don't want it to be.

So here I sit, like everyday, trying to figure out what it really is that I might want to do with the rest of my life, and aiming for a school next fall. Rocketry has become the only way I can leave the real world, while doing something that I love to do. Currently, rocketry is more important than anything to me. Most people would think, go for a rocketry career, but as I said, if I chose something along these lines for a career, I'm afraid that what I really love and do, may be driven out of me. Or may just be...very far from what I picture it as.
 
pr_rocket,

I can certainly commiserate with the feelings of boredom in school that you described. I taught myself to read at age 3, and was doing 6th grade work in kindergarten. I was nearly kicked out of school in 2nd grade because I never did my homework. I got perfect scores on the tests, but that wasn't enough to pass. I never learned how to study, because I didn't need to. That is, until college, when my first semester saw me sitting in front of the assistant dean explaining my 1.0 GPA. I took some study skills courses, and learned how to "work" at studying. I feel your pain.

I learned something at a job interview a few months ago that I think you could use. The interviewer (HR Director for a national construction and housing development company) told me, "I think you have excellent potential. You would do very well within our company. You would probably rise in your field very rapidly. But right now, you don't have anything to prove that. You have no experience in construction or development, or even real estate. I can sell you to the company based upon 90% potential, if only you had the 10% of experience to back it up. I can't sell anyone on 100% potential. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is."

In other words, you may be the best, the brightest, and the most capable engineer/mathematician/physicist anyone has ever known, but without the tangible data to back it up, you'll never get accepted into the school you want or hired into the job you want. Unfortunately, it may mean doing some of the drudgery of academia to get the right grades and the right scores on the right tests, so you can prove yourself.

Look at it from the point of view of the 19th century gold prospectors. How many days/weeks/months/years did they have to dig, hoping to find gold? They put up with some horrible conditions, in terribly boring environments, but when they DID get to the gold, it was all worthwhile.

WW
 
I have been a trucker for to long and i want to work in enviromentel health.I love driving,i just hate all the other stuff that comes with it.
 
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