An "R"-powered rocket build

Discussion in 'High Power Rocketry (HPR)' started by Rail Dawg, Nov 30, 2018.

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  1. Jun 16, 2019 #1921

    Theory

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    True, but as he surly can, I find the entire though of not supporting him completely ridiculous.
     
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  2. Jun 16, 2019 #1922

    Ez2cDave

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    Theory,

    Agreed, unless something exceeds his capabilities, I see no need to look elsewhere, either. However, should that ever be the case, I would seek out a source with the capability to do so, for that particular item.

    Dave F.

    hurler-5.jpg
     
  3. Jun 17, 2019 #1923

    HASTE

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    Will need to be some pretty good decals / stickers surviving any time in the Mach plus region.
    If You have (or find) a supplier that can supply decals or find one that can please share, not sure NASA got that sorted .
    Plus one Stickershock
     
  4. Jun 17, 2019 #1924

    blackjack2564

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    Mine have survived flight till approaching around M-1.9 to 2.1 then they start to fly off. However if you clear coat over them, they stay on till paint starts to melt off around M-2.3 in lower air.

    All this dependent on diameter and angle of attack.
     
  5. Jun 17, 2019 #1925

    Theory

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    Clear coat is a must here. And yes, at the point that paint starts melting, all bets are off as at that point you can’t expect a sticker to “stick”
     
  6. Jun 20, 2019 #1926

    Rail Dawg

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    On my way with the Binder Design fin can and the booster section to Abilene TX and then to New Mexico.

    It’s time to test-fit the motor casing and then take it back to Houston.

    Also going to collect up chemicals for the next Q and then R motor. We have one Q built for testing. The other Q and R will be built in July.

    It's busy but an enjoyable time as the rocket and it’s power take shape.

    Got a new Rocket Dawg yesterday to take with me on all these misadventures (when pets are allowed lol). I’ve always loved Jack Russell Terriers. He’s small enough to travel easily in the truck. What they might lack in size they more than make up for in energy and mischievousness lol.

    His name is Jackson and he’s 4-weeks old.

    Will post pics of the fin can and motor test-fit soon.

    Chuck C.

    7417C31E-916E-4F6E-9698-A13ADA87D85A.jpeg
     
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  7. Jun 20, 2019 #1927

    OverTheTop

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    I just burnished the vinyl decals down on my Orange Revolution (no clear coat) and most of it was still there after M1.8. Lettering was a little skinny so probably contributed to in-flight removal of the odd letter here and there. Mostly no problems though!
     
  8. Jun 20, 2019 #1928

    Bat-mite

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    Omigosh ... what a cutie!
     
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  9. Jun 20, 2019 #1929

    Ez2cDave

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    Chuck,

    Here is our Jack Russell - Chihuahua mix. "LUCY", 10 months old, 12 lb.

    Dave F.

    LUCY  -011.jpg

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    LUCY  -019.jpg

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    LUCY - MARCH 2019 - ADJ RESIZE.jpg

    hurler-5.jpg
     
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  10. Jun 20, 2019 #1930

    FredA

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    This thread has truly gone to the dogs..........
     
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  11. Jun 20, 2019 #1931

    tomsteve

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    awesome dog,chuck. first thing that went through my head reading his name:


    gotta change the lyrics up and rename:
    blackrock:):D
    or did launch location change to
    argonia?:D
     
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  12. Jun 21, 2019 #1932

    Rail Dawg

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    Got a lot done yesterday. Met up with the Engineering Dept to test fit both the 9 1/2’ motor and fin can.

    The motor went in fine except the top 2’ started to bind on the fiberglassed stringers. After the usual amount of cussing and removal of the offending fiberglass the motor slides in and out with ease.

    Sure is nice after all this work to have the motor fit in exactly as it should.

    Note: If able it’s best to test fit these kinds of things in the comfort of your own garage. Don’t want to think about trying to get this motor to fit with 95 degree heat and a crowd around.

    The Binder Design fin can fits like a glove. You’ve got to see this thing in person to appreciate the art and function put into this thing. It’s a one-of-a-kind fin can and it looks downright sexy!

    Wish I had more pics. We were at the Engineering Depts beautiful home and am hoping he snagged more than what I posted.

    Chuck C.


    7EF54552-BADE-4918-AB4E-EBF0F7C41355.jpeg 7E23DBB4-0FFE-42BD-8EB8-05F4E7AA257E.jpeg
     
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  13. Jun 21, 2019 #1933

    timbucktoo

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    Hey Chuck, you got a dog in that motor!
     
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  14. Jun 21, 2019 #1934

    davdue

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    You know it's a big motor casing when a Jack Russell Terrier pup fits in it just fine.
     
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  15. Jun 21, 2019 #1935

    davdue

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    Just WOW! is all I can say about that airframe and fin can.

    Did I just miss it or are we ever going to find out who "the Engineering Dept" is?
     
  16. Jun 21, 2019 #1936

    Ez2cDave

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    Chuck,

    It looks like Jackson is taking to the role of "Rocket Dawg" nicely !

    A couple of issues :

    (1) Motor Fit - In hotter weather, there will be some Thermal Expansion, which may be a problem in loading the motor.

    (2) Fin Can - It looks great ! . . .

    QUESTION: In that pic, the fins look "thin" . . . Are they .500" thick ? ( thinner will flutter )

    (3) You will need a "pup tent" for Jackson, at the launch - LOL !

    Dave F.

    7EF54552-BADE-4918-AB4E-EBF0F7C41355 - CROP.jpeg

    7EF54552-BADE-4918-AB4E-EBF0F7C41355 - BW - CROP.jpg

    hurler-5.jpg
     
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  17. Jun 21, 2019 #1937

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

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    "God Bless Men & their Rocket Dawgs" !

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg

    7E23DBB4-0FFE-42BD-8EB8-05F4E7AA257E.jpeg
     
  18. Jun 21, 2019 #1938

    Rail Dawg

    Rail Dawg

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    Going to build an air-conditioned Propellant Room in the Rocket Barn. Figured after these Q and R motors are done we’re going to forge ahead with even bigger projects.

    Thankfully there are great (and wise) fellow rocketeers who’ve taken us under their wings to mentor us on making big motors.

    In creating a Propellant Room I know there’s several of you with experience not just in making propellant but in working in labs.

    If you’ve got some must-follow rules I’d like to hear them just to add to the long list already created. One thing I’m thinking is a blow-out wall and a nice dust removal system.

    It’s not going to be that big... the rockets can be built in the barn with fans blowing. But the Propellant Room needs to be cool and safe.

    Chuck C.
     
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  19. Jun 21, 2019 #1939

    boatgeek

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    Bigger than R? :eek:

    Some Ex motor makers near here mix in a shed with the mixer on a platform that's on casters. The platform has a chain attached so if the mixer catches fire, it can be towed out of the shed from a safe-ish distance. I don't know how common a failure mode catching fire is, though. Your motor experts will have a better idea of the hazards, but you might want to think about a similar "bail out" scenario. That's a lot harder if you have to maintain a good door seal for AC though.

    A buddy that worked at Cummins said that their test cells had an exterior wall that was just stacked cinder blocks so that they'd blow out in an explosion. You'd still have to think about insulation and sealing cracks, but that is all still doable.
     
  20. Jun 21, 2019 #1940

    3stoogesrocketry

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    QUESTION: In that pic, the fins look "thin" . . . Are they .500" thick ? ( thinner will flutter )

    God bless the ability to go back in time and re read all the questions that have been asked ( mainly by you ) and re read the answers given . The fins are air foiled by Mike . You have asked about flutter several times . The answer has been given many times before. It will not flutter at the speeds Chuck is planning on going. Please , Please do not think this is a personal attack . There is nothing on this project that has not truly been discussed yet in detail . I for one cannot wait to see this go .

    Eric
     
  21. Jun 22, 2019 #1941

    Ez2cDave

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    Eric,

    This is a Team and the only thing that matters are the facts, not "personalities" . . . No worries, my friend !

    When AndrewAsc ran the flutter simulations, the fins were treated as .500" thick flat plates . . . They were not tapered or airfoiled in the sims ( FinSim ).

    My only concern is that parameters are now different than the original design. I sent AndrewASC a PM to alert him to the possible changes, as soon as I saw the photo's.

    What are the Root thickness and Tip thickness, at the present time ?

    What type of airfoil cross-section was used ?

    Were the fins re-simmed in their new airfoiled configuration ? If so, what program was used and what were the results ?

    Once again, I'm only seeking data, not "conflict" !

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     
  22. Jun 22, 2019 #1942

    Ez2cDave

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    Chuck, Eric, & All,

    Thank the Good Lord above that software now eliminates having to solve these equations, manually . . . LOL ! ( Hoping to hear from AndrewASC soon ).

    Source for these equations . . .

    https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a502110.pdf


    Dave F.

    FLUTTER - 1.JPG
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    FLUTTER - 4.JPG
    FLUTTER - 5.JPG

    FLUTTER - 6.JPG

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     
  23. Jun 22, 2019 #1943

    Binder Design

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    I provided the 3D stl file of the fin for approval long before I made chips.
     
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  24. Jun 22, 2019 #1944

    Buckeye

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    Sorry, butt dial.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  25. Jun 22, 2019 #1945

    Buckeye

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    and another...
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  26. Jun 22, 2019 #1946

    Ez2cDave

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    Hi, Mike ?

    To start, that is a beautiful job on the Fin Can . . . Truly impressive !

    I don't recall seeing those files but, more than likely, AndrewASC re-simmed them, at the time, with the new airfoil ( fingers crossed ).

    Chuck has a lot of time, money, blood, sweat, & tears tied up in this project and I am trying to make every effort to ensure that he is successful . . . For me, it's all about the teamwork, collaboration, analysis, and problem-solving !

    Also, none of us have seen any actual static test data for the motor(s) yet. I hate "flying by the seat of my pants" and always prefer hard data to hypothetical numbers.

    Thanks for posting . . . Please stay in touch, sir !

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     
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  27. Jun 22, 2019 #1947

    Theory

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    Really incredible seeing the fin can on the booster airframe!

    Next comes the actual mounting of that beast. If memory serves the fin can will be both adhered and mechanically fastened with screws into the stringers, correct?

    And then there is recovery. With the chute complete will a full scale test drop be conducted to ensure the system deploys as planned?

    Again, very happy to see this coming together. Well done Chuck
     
  28. Jun 22, 2019 #1948

    Theory

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    ...and yes. The static test will provide some much needed data and also confirm that a major portion of the project (the “motivation”) is also on the straight and narrow
     
  29. Jun 22, 2019 #1949

    Binder Design

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    Thanks for the kind words! Photos are deceiving with the beveling. Those fins are thick and much heavier than I would have preferred to make them. The strength of the bolt up was impressive, however the full strength is not achieved until firmly attached to an airframe. I'll leave it to Chuck to comment on that, but suffice to say that I have full confidence it will hold together just fine. I stake my name and reputation behind every fin can I make.
     
  30. Jun 22, 2019 #1950

    Ez2cDave

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    Mike,

    Are there a set of torque specs and a bolt-tightening pattern for proper attachment ?

    Dave F.

    STEELY-EYED MISSILE MEN - AVATAR.jpg
     

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