--

[Roguepink]

I don't think that the cost is part of not as many skill 4 and 5 kits. Actually, I would think they could come in for LESS in production if we stick with paper, balsa, and blow-molds. I would consider trading balsa for some laminated styro, just because you can do some extra detail in the manufacture. In fact, that would REDUCE the production cost as balsa is not all that cheap. One thing we have to look at is total production cost for the company's entire product line, not limited to rockets. I will say that at a recent meeting the big bosses said we need more new rocket product, less time in park scale R/C. We, the designers and engineers, are being refocused to that end.

I wish I could tell you about the project that's been eating my brain for 4 months now, just to make it work reliably. Don't you hate the promise of a cool design that, in the end, just doesn't work?

 

[AKPilot]

Hey, you know what I think, I don't think it's Estes' fault whatsoever.

If you want an interest into rocketry, the greatest marketeer is NASA. I would bet my bottom dollar, there's a direct correlation between major NASA projects (such as Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, and Space Shuttle) and the amount of sport rocketry models being bought. I mean . . . I don't see many of us, all though there are some, that try to duplicate a Delta IV. Launching satellites just isn't that exciting - it's common place.

And this comes from someone whose officially been awarded an AF Space Badge.

 

[sandman]

Don't you hate the promise of a cool design that, in the end, just doesn't work?

I don't know.

That has never happened to me ...not yet anyway.

Please don't make me list all of my kit development threads.

OK, I admit it...I'm a smart a**

 

[Roguepink]

Love your quote, Sandman. No Sanctuary.

Don't just blame NASA. They have the CEV coming soon, that's going to be cool. There are still historical subjects untouched by Estes.

But look at the larger cultural interest in rockets. In the 1950's - 1980's there was rapid development of space exploration. Although the hope was that the X-Prize would rekindle some of that, it didn't happen. Look at movies. How many really original science fiction movies are coming out? Star Trek is on it's last gasp. Star Wars is there, too. What else is there to see? Space and rockets have become commonplace. No one is really excited about it anymore.

Let's also consider the market itself. Aside from those of us (I do include myself) that still appreciate the essence of what hobbies are about, the hobby market is suffering. My step-son has no interest in building a rocket, a model, or anything that takes time, patience, and effort. It's all X-Box 360 for him.

Maybe if we design a new launch controller that looks like a Nintendo pad...

What this has to do with Canadian Arrow, I don't know.

 

[by basher]

Hi Rogue. Good to hear from ya.

Does Walmart having merchandicing rules like "Must be in box" or "Must be 'shelvable'?" Seems like every kit I bought at WM was in a box. (My first rocket purchases from WM were the Prowler and Bullpup in boxes.)

The CA will fit in a box. Even a large "Launchables" would work.

As far as marketing for WM sales, maybe a simplfied fin can for beginning builders. Or a 2.6 rocket in "blister pak" for kids to "wow" over.


btw: DON'T DROP THE CANADIAN ARROW.....PLEASE....PLEASE.....unless y'all kit an 2.6 HV ARCAS, Patriot, or military/sounding missile.

 

[Jeremy 12D]

All the Quest kits (and controllers) at Hobby Lobby are in the clearance aisle, I wonder if they are only going to sell Estes kits now? I did pick up the HUGE Penetrator kit, but mostly got finishing supplies as I am about to attempt my first real build and finish project, the Bull Pup.

Also, Superglue kinda gotta away from me during the 15 minute Penetrator build. Anyone know a good way to get a dried gob of it off one of the plastic fins?

 

[foose4string]

Some fine grit sandpaper should to get it off easily. Of course, you'll have to prime and spray paint it later.

 

[Roguepink]

Sand it down. You could try treating it with some nail polish remover, soften the glue. Be careful with "debonder" as it will kill the plastic.

WalMart has very strict rules of packaging. Boxes or other free-standing packaging. Our box size must fit shelf space and get the most product on the shelf space alotted to us. We've had to adjust PRODUCT to fit the packaging requirements. How frustrating is THAT for a designer? But we need WalMart and other mass market sales, so we play the game their way.

I'll find out something firm on the Canadian Arrow tomorrow and report.

 

[kelltym88]

Rogue,
First off I know we all appreciate you responding to us here. You are a brave soul. I understand your point of view. Marketing has changed/forced you to go in a different direction. Society has changed as well. I remeber growing up as a kid that around 9 am we were all outside playing. Not so anymore. I agree it is difficult to get kids interested in actually BUILDING a rocket.( That's where we as parents come in)For us old timers who are clinging to or yearing for the past when Estes was" the rocket company", we want to see some of that in your new releases. Maybe you could release a builders kit at the same you release the "toy". That way we are all excited. Everyone now has something to look forward to, young and old. You know what I mean?
And I have to agree with some of those here, those new ones leave a lot to be desired.
To use a sports analogy: It's kind of like watching Brett Favre or Dan Marino (right before he retired), you want to see them do what they did in their prime. You keep hoping and praying, but they just didn't have IT anymore. I think that's what those of us who remember Estes from 20 years ago feel. We keep waiting for how it was in your prime, but maybe you don't just have IT anymore. But we'll keep hoping and waiting.

PS-- Keep the CA. I only have one.

 

[Ltvscout]

Originally posted by kelltym88
To use a sports analogy: It's kind of like watching Brett Favre or Dan Marino (right before he retired), you want to see them do what they did in their prime. You keep hoping and praying, but they just didn't have IT anymore.

Whadda ya mean Brett doesn't have it anymore?!? He can't help it if his supporting cast sucks!

 

[foose4string]

Farve throws either 4 interceptions or 4 touchdowns a game, there is no in between with him. Supporting cast or not, it's just the way he plays. He takes risks, not saying that's always a bad thing, but he plays with his heart and not his head. I have always avoided taking him in my fantasy leagues and never regretted it.

 

[Roguepink]

Football and rocketry. Hmm.

Best we had in St. Louis was Kurt Warner. 2, maybe 3 good years and that's not enough to call it anything like a legend. Now slow fade, either. One year, he just sucked and that was it.

Now if you talk baseball, I'll talk Ozzie Smith.

 

[CTimm]

Originally posted by Roguepink
I don't think that the cost is part of not as many skill 4 and 5 kits. Actually, I would think they could come in for LESS in production if we stick with paper, balsa, and blow-molds.

A 4" diameter Little Joe II utilizing a one-piece blow-molded capsule, injection-molded escape tower and fin/fairings might be a profitable venture to think about.

No balsa required.
No vacuum-formed parts.

Utilize shiny metallic self-adhesive paper sheets for a body-wrap and you end up with a huge model that is simple to build and ends up becoming very impressive when finished.

The data to create an accurate model is readily available.
Contact Tom Beach or George Gassaway.

Any thoughts?

 

[by basher]

Originally posted by Ltvscout
Whadda ya mean Brett doesn't have it anymore?!? He can't help it if his supporting cast sucks!

GO PACK! I hope they get something going before da Bears game. Ouch.

 

[foose4string]

Originally posted by Roguepink


I'll find out something firm on the Canadian Arrow tomorrow and report.

Any word?

 

[DeWain]

I'm curious to see what other Estes kits will be discontinued, in case there is one or two that I want to snatch up before they are gone.

As much as I grumble about Estes' current offerings vs. the golden oldie days, I think that Estes should be praised for the X-Prize kits. These are (for the most part) really nice kits that only Estes can make for a reasonable amount. Estes (and perhaps Quest) can mass produce enough kits to justify the cost of developing molded plastic parts for scale models.

The shame is that most of the real X-prize concepts will never fly. So some of the Estes kits are scale models of things that just don't exist in the real world. The Lucky-7 is vapor ware (some guy claims to be building in his garage, but no one has every seen any hardware, no does it seem like he has any real hope of being able build something that will carry a person into suborbital space). The guys that want to build the Vanguard Eagle at least have a high power model rocket that they are testing, but they are a loooooonnnnggg way from building anything the size of the Eagle.

But... the Eagle kit is just a nice kit. The capsule has the detail that I would like to see in more Estes models. And the most of the X-Prize rockets come with removable display nozzels; again, more of this feature would be nice in future kits. The Thunderstar is also a nice kit (nice escape tower and conduit tunnels), and the Thunderstar is one that may actually carry tourists in the real world.

So... in short... rather than just saying "good riddence Estes X-Prize rockets", lets pat Estes on the back, and encourage then to build nice scale rockets of non vapor ware stuff in the future.

 

[foose4string]

I agree about the X-prize stuff. More plastic than I prefer, but still good looking kits. And think, the Orbital Transport that you and I love so well, was a real world conceptual design, much like the x-prize stuff. I've bought and built the X-prize Eagle, and have eyed the other x-prize kits pretty hard. If nothing else, I like how the CA and Gouchito can be bashed to make other scale like rockets. I've gone to the hobby shop several times with intention of buying the Canadian Arrow, but always seemed to get sidetracked. As long as there are two or three still hanging on the wall, I don't panic. It's when I don't see them, then it's something I gotta have. That's why I say Estes is smart to pull kits and re issue them at a later time. I could very well be wrong, but this seems like a good marketing scheme, Disney has been doing it for years now with video, and KISS and the Stones with rock and roll. And, really I don't care what badge is on the kit as long as the needed parts are there. I don't hate Estes. Just a couple things need be be touched on regarding Estes which have been addressed at great length here on the forum, so no need to repeat. For the most part, you'd be hard pressed to find better kits for the money.

 

[Rocketboy89]

wow didnt see that one comin. Ive got mine sitting on my desk ive only flown it once, due to an un friendly meeting with the ground. The fins are cracked, but i fixed them. Im sorry to hear its goin....

 

[foose4string]

Originally posted by Rocketboy89
wow didnt see that one comin. Ive got mine sitting on my desk ive only flown it once, due to an un friendly meeting with the ground. The fins are cracked, but i fixed them. Im sorry to hear its goin....

Just a rumor so far, waiting to hear from the inside man(Roguepink).

 

[Rocketboy89]

Originally posted by foose4string
Just a rumor so far, waiting to hear from the inside man(Roguepink).

oh ok...im crossin my fingers

 

[Roguepink]

Snap 'em up, boys.

 

[rokitflite]

Originally posted by Roguepink
Snap 'em up, boys.

Great, just what I need... Another kit to collect. The first BT-80 V-2 went bye-bye so I bought a bunch, then the Silver Comet bit the dust. I thought it was ugly, but hey, it could be made into a V-2 so I bought one. Then the V-2 got re-released so I bought a bunch. Now the Canadian Arrow . Sigh, whats another 3 or 4 kits up in the already cramped loft?

 

[Donaldsrockets]

Originally posted by Roguepink
Snap 'em up, boys.

Bummer, that sucks!!!

That was a nice kit.

 

[Rocketboy89]

i think ill go buy one with my 40% off coupon at Hobby Lobby. And convert it into a v2

 

[Bohica]

I bought 2 more for bashing last night at HobLob. Guess i'll put one up.

 

[Ed Wagoner]

*sigh* This is one of those kits that I kept on passing by....I am going to get that one next time. Hope I dont miss out it seems to be a great kit.

 

[terryg]

Guess I need to pick one that I can convert to a wasserfall. My first one I converted to an A4b, the winged V2. Maybe I ought to get two and build one stock!

 

[rokitflite]

So Rouge...
Does this mean the other X-prize kits will be leaving as well?

 

[JRThro]

Originally posted by Roguepink
Now if you talk baseball, I'll talk Ozzie Smith.

Amen!

Or Albert Pujols, these days.

 

[JRThro]

Originally posted by rokitflite
Great, just what I need... Another kit to collect. The first BT-80 V-2 went bye-bye so I bought a bunch, then the Silver Comet bit the dust. I thought it was ugly, but hey, it could be made into a V-2 so I bought one. Then the V-2 got re-released so I bought a bunch. Now the Canadian Arrow . Sigh, whats another 3 or 4 kits up in the already cramped loft?

3 or 4 more kits among the 10 or 15 thousand you already have won't even be noticeable, Scott!