75mm Deuce's Wild upscale

[rocketkyle]

Originally posted by ben
I do admit I should probably slow down. I am actually re-building my AMRAAM 2 and I have my Nike Apache that makes 2 HPR birds. I am actually going to work on a J,K,L HPR bird before this. I want to move into HPR and I realize that this is probably not the best bird. I will work on a simple straightforward design, a 5" Pheonix missile! It is a simple design that I can use to hone my building skills.

thanx, Ben

I guess this fell through the roof as well.

 

[Nate]

Originally posted by rocketkyle
I guess this fell through the roof as well.

hey hey now Kyle... Ben does build some very nice rockets. If you've ever looked at one of his MPR build threads, he does have some good skills. We're not trying to discourage him from rocketry in general (heck, with his enthusiasm I half expect to see him at NASA!), we're just trying to discourage him from building a 12,000ns Cluster with canted motor mounts.

 

[outasight13]

I really think ben should put this project aside, and stop now before he messes up bigtime.

 

[ben]

does the glassine/paper layer on the sonotube REALLY need to be removed. I tried to peel part of it off and it dosen't come off to easily. It seemed to get really god thick coverage (not to thick) and from looking at an end I cut it seems like it got good penetration.

thanx, Ben

 

[rocketkyle]

Originally posted by Nate
hey hey now Kyle... Ben does build some very nice rockets. If you've ever looked at one of his MPR build threads, he does have some good skills. We're not trying to discourage him from rocketry in general (heck, with his enthusiasm I half expect to see him at NASA!), we're just trying to discourage him from building a 12,000ns Cluster with canted motor mounts.

I wasn't trying to discourage him... but as most have said, he does need to build some easier rockets to gain the experience needed to even attempt this project.

 

[outasight13]

Originally posted by ben
does the glassine/paper layer on the sonotube REALLY need to be removed. I tried to peel part of it off and it dosen't come off to easily. It seemed to get really god thick coverage (not to thick) and from looking at an end I cut it seems like it got good penetration.

thanx, Ben

Do you REALLY need to do a good job building a rocket you plan to fly on a N4400 (2x M2200's) with a peak thrust of 1400 pounds...Nah, not really

 

[ben]

Originally posted by outasight13
Do you REALLY need to do a good job building a rocket you plan to fly on 2x M2200's...Nah, not really

thanks for the help. I am asking a serious question. DO I ned to scrap the whole tube?? or can I get by since it is soaked in good?

thanx, Ben

 

[outasight13]

It may hold up, but the point is that it isn't nearly as strong as peeling off the outer layer, and when you're dealing with this much power, you want all the strength you can get.

 

[cjl]

Agreed. Also, what weight and how many wraps of glass is that?

If (as it appears) it is only one wrap of 5-6oz glass, that is NOT enough to add significant strength to a rocket of this size.

 

[roadkill]

Ben,

Take a break, a deep breath and smell the roses for a while;

Slow down and think long and hard before you do - so later you don't have to think long and hard what you've done...

Don't try to rush a project of this magnitude, but please see it as a journey where the goal is not where you're going but rather how you're getting there.
Take your time to enjoy and have fun with it, not get stressed out by trying to finish it too soon, and by getting immersed by it.
Haste makes waste, and on this scale the mistakes are very very costly at best and extremely dangerous at worst...

Either way, I'm absolutely positive that when you finally hit the
'Go Baby Go' button, it'll be a spectacular event... Be it in positive or negative sense is up to you, and its also a choice you have to make before you go any further on with it...

Hint: I'd set that glassed sonotube aside for another future project to use with less powerful motor(s) and do it over the right way, its much cheaper than losing a completed bird with all the bells and whistles in it...

You're a good builder, but taking a slower and more thoughtful approach most likely will improve your skills over time to be a great builder.

 

[daveyfire]

Originally posted by cjl
If (as it appears) it is only one wrap of 5-6oz glass, that is NOT enough to add significant strength to a rocket of this size.

Wellllllll...

we did this https://www.pacificpropulsion.com/projects/frenetic/tube_glassed.jpg with two wraps of 6 oz glass, and it survived this https://www.pacificpropulsion.com/projects/frenetic/flight_photos/liftoff.jpg and this https://www.pacificpropulsion.com/projects/frenetic/flight_photos/right_turn.jpg and this https://www.pacificpropulsion.com/projects/frenetic/flight_photos/mayhem.jpg sooo...

like I said, you just have to engineer the solution. Eric and I put that rocket up after having built a lot of other stuff... and when a motor issue bit us in the butt we still managed to have the vehicle fail and recover in a safe manner. Having flown rockets on a similar scale before, we knew what would go wrong, where, and how. So we designed it to go wrong there, we knew what was important and what wasn't.

That's the part that we can't convey online. You gotta learn that by building and flying a few yourself.

 

[flyr98]

Originally posted by daveyfire
Wellllllll...

we did this https://www.pacificpropulsion.com/projects/frenetic/tube_glassed.jpg with two wraps of 6 oz glass, and it survived this https://www.pacificpropulsion.com/projects/frenetic/flight_photos/liftoff.jpg and this https://www.pacificpropulsion.com/projects/frenetic/flight_photos/right_turn.jpg and this https://www.pacificpropulsion.com/projects/frenetic/flight_photos/mayhem.jpg sooo...

like I said, you just have to engineer the solution. Eric and I put that rocket up after having built a lot of other stuff... and when a motor issue bit us in the butt we still managed to have the vehicle fail and recover in a safe manner. Having flown rockets on a similar scale before, we knew what would go wrong, where, and how. So we designed it to go wrong there, we knew what was important and what wasn't.

That's the part that we can't convey online. You gotta learn that by building and flying a few yourself.

Well you’re not going to get a much better example than that Ben

Just take a breath and try some simpler projects before you tackle this one.

 

[terryg]

If I might a suggestion, set this aside for the moment and finish building the 29mm duece that you have talked about in past threads. With the issues obtaining high power motors at the moment a rocket that would launch on dual G64 reloads is something I am interested in building.

 

[ben]

Originally posted by terryg
If I might a suggestion, set this aside for the moment and finish building the 29mm duece that you have talked about in past threads. With the issues obtaining high power motors at the moment a rocket that would launch on dual G64 reloads is something I am interested in building.

going to place an order to Commonwelath for the rest of the BT and coupler. Should be an exiting launch

I put one wrap of 9.6oz glass on it and a veil layer of 3.06oz. I have stripped the other tube and I am wating to strip this one once it dries more. I am not moving fast on this I am actually not doing much ATM besides glassing the BT. I am putting the final touches on my AMRAAM and Nike Smoke while it dries and trying to glass the Endevour too.

thanx, Ben

 

[Dan]

Any news on this build?

 

[ben]

Originally posted by Dan
Any news on this build?

Well, I cut the tubes smooth. I am actually gonna let it sit till the Spring. I am getting the tube for the 29mm Deuce this week (placed order last night) so I will practice AP clustering before I go bigger. I will get the 1/2" MMT CR's and E-bay CR's from A1 later this week.

thanx, Ben

 

[kelltym88]

Just a thought..... Every MPR or HPR rocket I have I had to do some type of reconstruction on. It doesn't mean that I didn't build them good enough or that I am a bad builder, but as I started using bigger and bigger motors, my building techniques and skills had to improve. For example, when I built my 29mm Deuce, I didn't use any type of glass or TTW. Fin shred. When I built my Interceptor G no TTW, again fin shred. My upscale Disrutor, after about 3 or 4 flights, the lower body tube gave out, I realized I had used the wrong tube. The point is, I've learned from and improved my building skills thru trial and error, and when I attempt my L3 I will have the knowledge and experience needed to be successful. It's good to hear you've decided to slow down. And as others have said, build a few more MPR to get the feel of what HPR is all about.

 

[ben]

Originally posted by kelltym88
Just a thought..... Every MPR or HPR rocket I have I had to do some type of reconstruction on. It doesn't mean that I didn't build them good enough or that I am a bad builder, but as I started using bigger and bigger motors, my building techniques and skills had to improve. For example, when I built my 29mm Deuce, I didn't use any type of glass or TTW. Fin shred. When I built my Interceptor G no TTW, again fin shred. My upscale Disrutor, after about 3 or 4 flights, the lower body tube gave out, I realized I had used the wrong tube. The point is, I've learned from and improved my building skills thru trial and error, and when I attempt my L3 I will have the knowledge and experience needed to be successful. It's good to hear you've decided to slow down. And as others have said, build a few more MPR to get the feel of what HPR is all about.

very true. Out of the couple mistakes I have had with rockets I have (am) rebuilding them and I have learned. I have never made the same mistake twice. I will slow down and I will pick this up next spring/summer after I fly some H and I's with my JRL1 and my first K

thanx, Ben

 

[metalwizard]

tim you build some coooool rockets. remember they are new over powered, only underbuilt!!

 

[metalwizard]

oh and to make it stronger, my 29mm duce has only TWO fins.... they are more than through the wall, the are through the wall interlaced with two other fins and back through the wall. I promise you you build your big one like this and your fins will hold together.. the body tube will be doing nothing exce[i holding your chute and going along for the ride...

 

[ben]

Originally posted by metalwizard
oh and to make it stronger, my 29mm duce has only TWO fins.... they are more than through the wall, the are through the wall interlaced with two other fins and back through the wall. I promise you you build your big one like this and your fins will hold together.. the body tube will be doing nothing exce[i holding your chute and going along for the ride...

I was actually going to make them TTW and add a 1" long tab so I could add some strong internal fillets. I am not totally sure.

To further my experience if money allows I will make a 38mm Deuce.

thanx, Ben

 

[Neil]

Originally posted by daveyfire
Whatever happened to Neil?

...i grew up and got a life.

ben, take it from them what knows it, just shut up. i was exactly like this about three years ago, and i mean EXACTLY like that. to all of you who shut me down like your doing to ben, thank you. that was the best thing you could have done for me. dont hesitate to do it to ben now, he needs to hear it. tear him down so he can build himself back up, itll be good for him. all the things you told me back then, being happy with 54MM and not doing more than my ability allows and all that, all true. i didnt want to hear it, and truth be told i completely ignored you, but i found most of it on my own, and only then thought "hey, this is exactly like what those guys to me to do isnt it?". ben, listen to what these guys have and are about to tell you, itll save you a lot of time.


i dont want to write a big ten page essay, so i'm gonna call it quits here. do what roadkill told you, and the rest of you put your two cents in, you know you want to. i'm probably going to disappear for another year before i check up on this place again, but when i come back i want to see that this kid has finished all of his humble pie and asked for seconds.

 

[Flamboyant]

Well that was a little harsh...

I actually think we should encourage ben to work on projects like this. It's a great learning experience. However, I think he should slow it down a little bit. Maybe build a 38mm upscale before a 75mm upscale. I would not try to shut him out.

 

[ben]

Originally posted by Flamboyant
Well that was a little harsh...

I actually think we should encourage ben to work on projects like this. It's a great learning experience. However, I think he should slow it down a little bit. Maybe build a 38mm upscale before a 75mm upscale. I would not try to shut him out.

got the MMX deuce done, 18mm deuce, and parts for a 13mm and 24mm in my Xmas box I have most of the parts for the 29mm and I plan on doing a 38mm. I have a new quest. To fly the MMX deuce all the way to the 29mm with every motor that can fit in them! I am getting an 18/20 24/40 and 29/40-120 from WUH unless santa gives them to me

thanx, Ben

 

[jflis]

kewl

jim