4" glass Nike Smoke considerations

[Mr G]

Just pulled the trigger on a Madcow/RW 4" Nike Smoke with the molded fins. Been on the list for a long while. So, its just a few pieces (https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Kits/Scale_Rockets/Nike_Smoke_4in_Fiberglass)...

But there are a few things to think about like rail button stand offs and dual deploy with no AV Bay to start with. Jolly Logic Chute Release, anyone?

What is your experience with this kit and how did you adapt for the kind of flights you prefer?
One of the motivators for getting this kit was the ridiculous mass TCC Nike Smoke drag races I was able to witness before the rules changed.

 

[Rocketcamper123]

hope you didn't buy it from apogee. madcow is having their labor day sale. https://www.madcowrocketry.com/4-fiberglass-nike-smoke-molded-fins/

 

[Mr G]

Took advantage of the Madcow sale.

 

[Cameron Anderson]

Just pulled the trigger on a Madcow/RW 4" Nike Smoke with the molded fins. Been on the list for a long while. So, its just a few pieces (https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Kits/Scale_Rockets/Nike_Smoke_4in_Fiberglass)...

But there are a few things to think about like rail button stand offs and dual deploy with no AV Bay to start with. Jolly Logic Chute Release, anyone?

What is your experience with this kit and how did you adapt for the kind of flights you prefer?
One of the motivators for getting this kit was the ridiculous mass TCC Nike Smoke drag races I was able to witness before the rules changed.

Used JLCR twice on mine, not a fan. It is just too big a chute/airframe for the CR. Use cable cutters.

 

[jd2cylman]

Used JLCR twice on mine, not a fan. It is just too big a chute/airframe for the CR. Use cable cutters.

I've used the JL Chute release in a LOC IROC (5.38” airframe) with no issues at all. All depends on how you bundle the chute. I put the JLCR on the chute only and then burrito wrap the chute with nomex. During decent, the nomex comes off and the at the set altitude, the JLCR releases the chute (theoretically). Worked for me.

 

[Cameron Anderson]

I've used the JL Chute release in a LOC IROC (5.38” airframe) with no issues at all. All depends on how you bundle the chute. I put the JLCR on the chute only and then burrito wrap the chute with nomex. During decent, the nomex comes off and the at the set altitude, the JLCR releases the chute (theoretically). Worked for me.

JLCR will easily fit if you use the "roll-up" method recommended by Jolly Logic...the problem is, short of intentionally tying the shroud lines together, it rolling up the canopy and shroud lines is quite literally the worst way to pack a parachute.
You might get chute deployment sometimes but you're begging for a malfunction.

 

[jd2cylman]

I always pack the shroud lines inside the chute.

 

[crossfire]

I have used the JLCR on 58" chutes with no problems.

 

[Rocketcamper123]

if at all possible just use traditional dual deploy. nothing beats that. getting fancy with jlcr is advanced and all but more failure rates then traditional dual deploy. if the jlcr opens to soon your screwed if it doesn't your screwed. at least with dual altimeters in dual deploy you have a back up.

 

[David Schwantz]

I used a JLCR on a 9' main in my Saturn V.

 

[Titan II]

This is how I did it on a 4" MC Smoke using HEDD.

I made an electronics bay that fit inside the NC shoulder. Take two pieces of cardboard 4" body tube and cut to length of shoulder. Slit each one longitudinally. Insert one into shoulder and take a piece out so when butted together it fits in the shoulder. Put the second piece inside the first and remove a piece for a snug fit. Glue the two together (laminate) with the cuts 180 degrees apart. Make sure the assembly slides freely within the shoulder. The upper bulkhead is the diameter of the bay. The lower bulkhead diameter is the ID of the 4" body tube. I also recessed two charge holders into the upper bulkhead to allow more room in the NC for the chute. Hold the bay in the NC shoulder with two or three 2-56 nylon shear pins that friction fit into their holes. Cut off the heads so you can insert the NC assembly into the body tube. The NC with the bay are now held to the body tube with two or three 2-56 shear pins. Shear pins keep the three components aligned for the static ports (each hole goes through the body tube, shoulder and bay).

 

[Mr G]

Glad to know of some success with the JLCR. Interesting HEDD solution.

Does the nosecone protrude far enough out from the booster tube OD to need standoffs for the rail guides?

 

[Titan II]

Glad to know of some success with the JLCR. Interesting HEDD solution.

Does the nosecone protrude far enough out from the booster tube OD to need standoffs for the rail guides?

I put spacers under the rail guides. I believe they were about .25 inch.

 

[rcktnut]

I did this, main chute is in nosecone, used 3in. body tube in nose cone:

 

[Cameron Anderson]

I did this, main chute is in nosecone, used 3in. body tube in nose cone:

View attachment 431028View attachment 431029

Classy setup. What size motor does that limit you to?

 

[David Schwantz]

I am lucky enough to have a club member that tested the JLCR . He showed me how they folded the chutes for it.
If you fold it with all the lines on one side, and then run the lines up one gore, flip it over and then run them back down another gore so that they exit the bottom. Now fold tightly so they will not pop out and z fold whole chute to bundle that will fit in tube. Wrap rubber band around bundle so it goes across the folds, not with the folds. Wrap in blanket and put in tube. And don't forget to turn it on

 

[rcktnut]

Classy setup. What size motor does that limit you to?

It fits 54mm motors up to 16 in. those sim out to around 7500 ft. high enough for me. Person could put a 75 mm. MMT if wanted.

 

[Cameron Anderson]

If you extend the motor mount out past the aft end of the airframe you can fit 4 grain motors in there...nice.

 

[dbpeirce]

I stacked two rail buttons on top of each other to get the stand-off. I have also used the JLCR successfully with this rocket. In fact I used it for my L2 cert flight with a J401

 

[Kosmo]

I used the Polecat 5.5" Nike smoke for my level 2 cert. For the rail guide stand offs I simply used 2 nuts on each rail guide. It was single deploy motor ejection with JLCR. The chute release worked perfectly for this rocket (which had a 50" parachute.) And I've launched it several more times using the chute release without any problems.

I have had problems with JLCR in the past on other rockets, I do think it's important to have vent holes, otherwise there is a high likelihood that the parachute will fully deploy as soon as it's ejected. I have vent holes in my Nike Smoke.

 

[Mr G]

Where did you place the aft motor mount centering ring? Normal placement is usually against the fin tab. But in this case that is 3.5" from the end of the booster tube. A CR mounted closer to the tail might not hold with the pressure from a big fast burning motor like the AT K2050ST.

 

[Mr G]

It's been said that the fiberglass nosecone is pretty rough, but body tube slots that look like this? Is that normal for this kit?

It's Madcow branded and they seem be pretty quality conscious given what I have received before. I will clean them up, no problem, just curious what others have experienced.

 

[dhbarr]

View attachment 436805
It's been said that the fiberglass nosecone is pretty rough, but body tube slots that look like this? Is that normal for this kit?

It's Madcow branded and they seem be pretty quality conscious given what I have received before. I will clean them up, no problem, just curious what others have experienced.

Each of the fins and each fin slot measures differently in my kit. I haven't decided how I want to tune them up.

 

[Donnager]

View attachment 436805
It's been said that the fiberglass nosecone is pretty rough, but body tube slots that look like this? Is that normal for this kit?

It's Madcow branded and they seem be pretty quality conscious given what I have received before. I will clean them up, no problem, just curious what others have experienced.

It's been a year or so, but mine looked like that. I have a set of small files that I use for this kind of thing. I also seem to recall the fins weren't all *exactly* the same, so some slot customization, or fin clearancing was in order, anyway.

I believe mine has 3/16" or 1/4" aluminum spacers under the launch lugs.

It's a cool rocket. I bought mine to get my Level 2, but set the chute release to 100' in error (100' is not close to enough to get the chute open). It landed hard and just popped one fin off. It has since been repaired.

If you set the chute release to the right altitude and wrap it carefully, it works great in this rocket.

 

[mtnmanak]

I know it is a bit of a thread bump, but found this thread when searching for discussion about rail button standoffs.

I built out my Madcow Nike Smoke a while back and, when I bought it, I just bought an extra 30" tube, a coupler and switch band with a couple of the Madcow metal bulkplates. Went Dual Deploy from the get-go and didn't regret it. Easy to fly it single deploy by just taking the payload & AV bays out and put the noscone on the booster (as it is meant to be flown out of the kit).

Adding the DD components adds about $100 to the cost of the kit, but if you order it all at the same time, you save a lot on shipping rather than ordering the DD components separately. Recommend doing this for anyone buying this kit, it is a great DD bird and would make a great Level 2 DD option since it flies low on a J with the payload bay in place. Rocksim for an AT J250 shows about 1700 ft, but real results in my experience were somewhere around 1500 feet. That is a really great altitude for a Level 2 cert flight.

Attached is the Rocksim file for my Madcow 4" DD Nike Smoke, for reference