Well family is asking if I want any high power rocket kits for the holidays... with my CF rocket I am really into the high performance designs and was thinking about getting a cirrus dart from PML (well, putting it on the wish list... from family). I will have a transmitter for the CF rocket so tracking it wont be hard, I will probably not have dual deploy, and will fly it on 360-600 AT loads... I like that it comes with the glass, makes mach flights a lot easier. Any tips or pic's with cool things you did with the rocket? How did you do the deployment (most I's need a delay longer then 14 seconds...)? Are there delays that are certified and have a range of about 18 seconds in the 38/480-720 motors? I could throw a timer in there (dont want to risk losing my MAWD) but it would be nice to have motor ejection for easier prep. I love the fact that I can fly it on a small 38mm CTI G and go all the way up to an I600 for a 1400MPH flight. (could go with a smaller motor but the CTI 38mm G would be the smallest without an adaptor...).
38mm cirrus dart
- Thread starter jraice
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JDcluster
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Just so you know; tracking transmitters & or GPS don't do well in CF airframes,They more or less shield the signal.
JD
JD
Rocket Guy 1317
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If you want a really high performance rocket kit get the Concept 54 it can fly on a L730 to about 20,000 feet. But the Cirrus Dart if FG could be a strong tough little rocket.
Kcee
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A Cirrus dart with an I600 (CTI I540) could easily go over 7000.' Without duel deployment it could be a very long walk with or without a transmitter. 
I would go with a drogueless duel deployment using a parachute burrito for the main and a wack of tracking powder. This rocket is a great performer.
Just a thought.
Kevin C
I would go with a drogueless duel deployment using a parachute burrito for the main and a wack of tracking powder. This rocket is a great performer.Just a thought.
Kevin C
do like the aurora team did, CF the airframe, but throw kevlar over the NC so the signal can still be transmitted. or just leave the NC alone, as long as it wont hit mach 3, heat shouldnt be that much of a problem...
The transmitter in the CF rocket would be inside the alt bay (surrounded by CF...). Is it really that serious of a problem? The cirrus dart (if I go for it) would be stock with only glass on the fins... I want to stay away from dual deploy because of the longer prep times, so are there any good ways to have a 18+ second delay time with 38mm AT motors?
for the info and ideas guys, I have decided to build a scratch 29mm bird similar to the cirrus but with a different fin design, it will use PML components and I will have them dado the fin slots, I will then use some 3oz glass I have to do a cirrus dart style reinforcement. I am planning a complex L flight and a K1275 in the CF rocket and those flights alone cost $330, so the 29mm minimum diameter would still be a fun build but would be less expensive. I could try out a couple of EM SU motors (H275 would be very fast and the I69 would give it a ton of altitude) but an I69 cost's about the same as a RMS 38mm large I or J motor so I will probably stick to 29/360 loads, I have an H165R and an H238T so I will probably burn them in it and then purchase some larger loads, maybe try one EM (probably the I69, H275 is very similar to the H268R but there really are no RMS long burn I's like the EM I69) at the end of the weekend just for some high alt fun. Another great aspect of a bird this large is I could probably carry it onto an airplane in a carboard tube for traveling to launches in nevada (would be a fun rocket to fly at XPRS) and all I would need is some motor building grease and a couple of baby wipes... EDIT: and the altitude would be more realistic with just a tracking unit and standard L delay's would probably work fine...
Countdown Hobbies
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everytime I see this one hanging in the shop I think to myself... hmmm if I had fun losing Starlight Micros on C's last weekend I would love losing this think on an H or I... oh what fun... its the same thing a the tiny rocket with a C just cooler
I think I will go with the 29mm idea, rocksim says it needs about a 15.5 second delay time, so with a 14 second long delay it will be fine, I69 would need a 12 second delay so the included 10 second (plus it runs a little long...) should be fine. I just want a cheap ($20 H flights) easy to prep motor ejection rocket... so the MAD idea would be cool but isnt what I am trying for. Why doesnt PML have a 1.1" diameter payload bay? I need a small section for the transmitter... guess I could just get a 29mm motor tube and a coupler and make my own... this thing will get just under a mile on an H128W, pretty nice if you ask me! PML is going to dado the tube, make precut pieces of glass to reinforce the fins and make me some custom G10 fins, nice to make a scratch built rocket with the building time of a kit, hate having to cut slots... make fins... and all that scratch building stuff, but it saves money on the large rockets... Please give more info about CF and HAM radio trackers...! I would guess the only solution would be to attach it to the drogue harness, but it isnt a "self contained" transmitter so I dont know how I would do that. But for the 29mm rocket I will just put it into the payload bay, it is supposed to fit nicely in 29mm tubes.
bigredbee
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Yes, carbon fiber will attenuate the RF signal from the BeeLine, or any RF emmitter for that matter.
Two options
1) put it inside a fiberglass payload section, or the noscone. For my cirrus Dart, I did away with the solid conical nosecone, and used a hollow one. I didn't need the added weight up front.
2) People have succesfully attached it directly to the recovery harness, just make sure it's well attached and protected somehow -- even some tape will help. BUT, I'd be worried about it jamming upon exit froma 38mm tube.
And, yes, it does fit inside a 29mm tube as well.
- Greg
Two options
1) put it inside a fiberglass payload section, or the noscone. For my cirrus Dart, I did away with the solid conical nosecone, and used a hollow one. I didn't need the added weight up front.
2) People have succesfully attached it directly to the recovery harness, just make sure it's well attached and protected somehow -- even some tape will help. BUT, I'd be worried about it jamming upon exit froma 38mm tube.
And, yes, it does fit inside a 29mm tube as well.
- Greg
Hey, I talked to you about this via e-mail just before I read this, but the 29mm tube is not glassed with anything, I am worried about the CF 2.5" tube. I have an extended alt bay in a CF tube that was going to house the beeline... I could get some FG tubing but that would not be cheap... so, would you feel comfortable putting it in the drogue chute bay? It is a tight packing compartment and has no wadding or anything to protect it. Sounds like the easiest, not cheapest, or most reliable option is a FG upper tube, I will look into that I guess...
So for the 29mm phenolic rocket I will just fit it into the bay, but for the CF rocket I like the film canister idea, light weight, not as strong as a phenolic tube but has some flex (can take a good amount of impact, rocket is falling at 25FPS, should be ok)... the 35mm film canister is a nice fit with the transmitter? What would you do with the antenna? I have some 29mm kraft tubing, would that be a better choice for housing it? I should have enough room to fit a film canister... the kevlar packs pretty tight...
No protection against the antenna getting damaged or torn off? Could the kevlar thread, or even tape, be used to mount it directly to the harness, instead of it being attached to a small cord, which is attached to the harness. My dad was questioning about power switchs for this thing, I am currect in saying that most people just turn it on and put it in during prep...? Will that film canister still work with the SMA antenna attachment? Thanks for the pic, that was helpful.
Rocket Guy 1317
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Dont you need a Ham radio licenses you use a bigredbee gps tracking system???
Hi Greg.
I think you might have seen it, but I tape mine to the recovery harness with duck tape. I tape over the harness and whole circuit board with duct tape, bonding it to the harness, and incasing the circuit in a cocoon of the duct tape.
I had an incident that caused my ebay to free fall from 7000 feet, and the harness on the outside with the BigBee was still Beeing away when it hit the ground and allowed me to find the very important data inside the ebay it was attached to.
Greg, you make a very nice product, thanks !
speedyweasel
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Yes. CF will largely block the signal, making it virtually pointless to have a tracker on-board as dead weight.
Mount it to the shock cord, if you can. This exposes it during descent and means you can re-use it in the same manner on other rockets.
And I've not heard of longer delay grains... just go with the altimeter/timer.
Well I will tell my dad about the SMA, but I think the SMA is nice... so it is safe if you just mount it to the harness? If there is room, would you recommend the film canister? And then just tape the antenna to the harness...?
Hi yet again Jraice.
for the stock BigBee tracker, and your app, I would not recomend the SMA.
the only reason for it is ataching other style Ham antennas for special purposes.
if you do have room to wrap black duct tape about the film canister and the harness, that adds extra insurance so do it.
remember, we wrap rags with duct tape to make anti-zipper balls as well.
if you ever pull the antenna out of a BigBee, you just solder it back in. no big deal.
as for IF their is room, I would say a 35mm canister would have room in a 4" body tube, else I would use a duct tape cocoon.
But this is all just MHO
bigredbee
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Yep, the SMA connector isn't really all that necessary unless you want to connect the BeeLine up to a run of coax so you can re-locate the antenna (but I find that it *is* really cool ) It also offers some level of protection -- I suppose its possible to rip up the pads if you're really rough on the antenna connection.
When ordering -- if you make sure to ask for one of the NEW boards -- you have the option installing the SMA connector at a later date. Just unsolder the plain wire antenna, and solder on the SMA adapter!
-- Greg
) It also offers some level of protection -- I suppose its possible to rip up the pads if you're really rough on the antenna connection.When ordering -- if you make sure to ask for one of the NEW boards -- you have the option installing the SMA connector at a later date. Just unsolder the plain wire antenna, and solder on the SMA adapter!
-- Greg
Great... so no SMA... anybody have any pictures of how they attach it with tape? How do you protect it from the BP residue? Without the SMA, the antenna goes under the heat shrink tube to keep it from getting pulled off easily, correct...
speedyweasel
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No pictures, but it's attached with electrical tape... plenty of it.
As for protection, either make sure it's inside your Nomex blanket or put as much space & dog barf between the transmitter and the BP as you can. There's nothing wrong with mounting it right next to the NC. That's about as far as you could get from the BP.
As for protection, either make sure it's inside your Nomex blanket or put as much space & dog barf between the transmitter and the BP as you can. There's nothing wrong with mounting it right next to the NC. That's about as far as you could get from the BP.
