1st Time Viking Build

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
Hi all,
I got to spend some time with my grandson today, we started building our viking kit. But I made a beginner's mistake. I used the small tube to insert the engine block ring up in the body tube & didn't realize I was supposed to pull the tube out once the ring was at the proper height inside the body tube. So now the tube is glued in place. Is there a work around to still make it flyable. I worked on gluing techniques and played around with a couple different brands and also types of glue. I practice some filleting once the glue had set up on the wings and the launch lugs. I then sanded the fillets and the glassine shine off the tube as well as the nose cone and the wings. Just to get proper adhesion with the primer. If anyone has any ideas how to make this flyable I could really use the help. Thanks for any ideas. Dyl
 

Scott_650

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
1,857
Reaction score
1,332
Location
Louisville OH
Well. That’s a bit of a problem. This MIGHT work so good luck - find a dowel or length of PVC, anything sturdy enough to do what’s next but small enough diameter to wrap some 180 grit sandpaper around and still fit inside the glued-in spacer tube, and start sanding that spacer tube with your cylindrical sander until there’s enough clearance to insert a 13mm motor. It’s going to take some patience but it could do the trick.

Otherwise you have some spare parts for the next Viking you build…
 

Spitfire222

NOTAMs: Now 200% more inclusive!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
424
Reaction score
548
This might be controversial, but at a bit more than $10, I would chalk this up to a learning experience and just get a new Viking (or Yankee or Wizard!) to build and make sure not to make the same mistake again! ;)
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
Thanks for the possible work around. I don't know if it's all that worth it for the $12 or $13 that it'll cost me. I marked the tube & told him to insert the tube up to the line & before I knew it he'd pushed the spacer tube fully into the body tube. Then I was too focused and concerned with backing it back out then resetting the motor retainer ring back to where it needed to be. I didn't realize the spacer tube was supposed to come out till the glue had set up and it was stuck in place. Oh well live and learn. The Estes directions leave a little to be desired especially for someone like me who's basically do this all over for the first time while trying to teach him. I'll try to give it a shot. But it sounds like another trip to the hobby shop is in my immediate future so I can get the Viking back in primer ready condition. After the glue fillets are done & sanded do you advise I put a bead of wood filler on the filleted glue and fillet the filler too? Also what about covering the spiral crack lines is this something you recommend to get a next to flawless flatness to the painting processes with proper sanding between too.
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
This might be controversial, but at a bit more than $10, I would chalk this up to a learning experience and just get a new Viking (or Yankee or Wizard!) to build and make sure not to make the same mistake again! ;)
Thanks Spitfire, I was just telling Scott the exact same thing looks like another store trip is in my very near future. According to my grandson I bought the wrong paint for his liking anyway. I told him the rockets yellow with a green nose cone. Which I was just going to spray all Yellow after priming out of simplicity for our first build. But apparently he wants it all green. Go figure, lol.. Thanks for the words of wisdom guys.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
9,750
Reaction score
9,170
Location
Hawaii
Another option is to peel/sand a few layers of paper from the motor you want to use.
Peel/sand from the outside evenly, and just enough to get the motor in.
The spacer tube is thin so should only have to remove a few layers. Don't think that will compromise the integrity of the casing.
I've done this to fly motors in tubes that I accidentally put too much glue in.
 

neil_w

OpenRocketeer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
14,779
Reaction score
8,495
Location
Northern NJ
After the glue fillets are done & sanded do you advise I put a bead of wood filler on the filleted glue and fillet the filler too? Also what about covering the spiral crack lines is this something you recommend to get a next to flawless flatness to the painting processes with proper sanding between too.
You do not typically put filler over the fillet. For LPR fillets I don't usually even sand them at all, just put them on smooth as possible in the first place. As for filling the spirals... hoo boy. Give a wave when you get down to the bottom of that rabbit hole.

Ha ha , it's obviously a joke, there is no bottom!

Recommended reading: https://www.nar.org/educational-resources/model-rocket-building-techniques/
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
9,750
Reaction score
9,170
Location
Hawaii
The Viking uses a plastic cone and fiber fins so the only place that filler would be used is on the spirals. Don't think it's worth the effort for a kid's rocket but only you can decide.
Same thing with primer.
 

teepot

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
3,409
Reaction score
3,688
Location
Pahrump, Nevada
Take a pair of needle nose plyers and garb an edge and twist. You can use a flat blade screwdriver to lift an edge. It will come out in strips. Keep it up till it's removed. I had to remove a coupler from a crashed rocket so I could join the new tube, It took awhile but I got it all out. If you can't get the plyers in then it's screwdriver alone. Good luck.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
9,750
Reaction score
9,170
Location
Hawaii
Take a pair of needle nose plyers and garb an edge and twist. You can use a flat blade screwdriver to lift an edge. It will come out in strips. Keep it up till it's removed. I had to remove a coupler from a crashed rocket so I could join the new tube, It took awhile but I got it all out. If you can't get the plyers in then it's screwdriver alone. Good luck.
I like this suggestion. Pic is of a stuck coupler and no glue but same idea:
1628830601435.png
Getting out the glued remnants will be a challenge.
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
Thanks so much for the added responses from the group. I'd love to pull out the spacer piece by piece but when I pried at it a bit it started to deform the thin body tube walls. As for the wood filler I'd like to get a handle of how to work with it. I'd like to also teach my grandson the various steps, also that you have to wait and do things in stages. That you can't try to rush things like perfection or the best perfection that we can try at for our first build. Ultimately I'd like him to walk away with a hobby he enjoys and starts doing aspects of the builds by himself till we can get together to build. My work schedule is crazier than the average grandpa I guess. As you can tell I've read posts for months as well as absorbed whatever YouTube has to offer. Watching and reading about builds and build techniques. I gotta admit there's a total sense of pride about creating something to the best of ones ability. I had a lot of fun building with him and also sanding last night trying to knock down some of the rougher glue spots. I can totally see why you guys do this it's cool. I don't know if I'll get into the aerodynamics, the design of a scratch built rocket, or running sim software on different types of construction but who knows. To hear the joy in his voice screaming out the launch countdown of our not so successful trial run of the Riptide. Or the amazement and joy in his face when we finally got it to take off and him watching the flight then the parachute popping. As he's yelling Grandpa grandpa the parachute came out. Then as it drifted with the air current into the trees. Now I know next time to go to a bigger park with little to no wind. But he came to build and fly a rocket, we ended up doing both. Who knows maybe I'll find it one day. Thanks again guys, Dyl
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
Oh I forgot quick question the wood filler what consistency am I looking forward when I add water to it. Thanks, Dyl
 

neil_w

OpenRocketeer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
14,779
Reaction score
8,495
Location
Northern NJ
Oh I forgot quick question the wood filler what consistency am I looking forward when I add water to it. Thanks, Dyl
Ultimately you need to find a consistency that works for you. You may find this to be a good starting point: https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2010/09/carpenters-wood-filler-mix-ratios.html

Also here are all the CWR-related posts (at least, the ones that are tagged). Lots of good stuff here: https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/CWF?max-results=20
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
Thanks Neil when I 1st introduced myself months back when I joined the forum someone recommended Chris's website to me and I've checked it out a few times. I'm usually online via an Android phone I don't know if it's the formatting of his site that I find difficult to use or what it is. It also could just be that I'm not user friendly. Lol. I'm nearing my 50's and although I've been using the phone for so much of my daily life and work I'm sure there's still a ton of stuff I don't know about the intricacies of web use. I've got an old laptop that I hardly ever fire up. Maybe I should use the web view option when visiting his site I think it's used more by computer users as opposed to Android and iOS users. That's why I feel some stuff is just lost in translation. Does anyone else find this too? I'm already counting the minutes till the hobby store opens and I can head there to fix my spacer tube disaster from yesterday and I might also grab another RTF model just to have a reliable pre built stand by. Do they sell one without all the launchpad stuff just the rocket alone?
 

neil_w

OpenRocketeer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
14,779
Reaction score
8,495
Location
Northern NJ
Thanks Neil when I 1st introduced myself months back when I joined the forum someone recommended Chris's website to me and I've checked it out a few times. I'm usually online via an Android phone I don't know if it's the formatting of his site that I find difficult to use or what it is. It also could just be that I'm not user friendly. Lol. I'm nearing my 50's and although I've been using the phone for so much of my daily life and work I'm sure there's still a ton of stuff I don't know about the intricacies of web use. I've got an old laptop that I hardly ever fire up. Maybe I should use the web view option when visiting his site I think it's used more by computer users as opposed to Android and iOS users.
You're right that power-browsing Chris's site is much easier on a larger screen. I would say that firing up that laptop is a good idea, and will enable you to take advantage of excellent rocketry-related tools that don't run on phones (e.g., sim programs).

Learning the intricacies of the web is the same as learning anything else... practice.

As for "nearing my 50's"... well I'll resist the urge to call you "youngster". :) Seriously, you're probably close to the median age here (or maybe even younger).

I'm already counting the minutes till the hobby store opens and I can head there to fix my spacer tube disaster from yesterday and I might also grab another RTF model just to have a reliable pre built stand by. Do they sell one without all the launchpad stuff just the rocket alone?
Having one or two RTF models that you don't have any emotional attachment to is indeed a good idea. They're great for testing out the wind on first flights of the day, or things like that. Personally I am fan of E2X models, which require just a bit of construction and are a bit more satisfying.

They absolutely sell these types of models with just the rocket. You can browse the Estes website and find all of them.
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
Thanks Neil,
I'll have to see what my local hobby shop has to offer I'm going to need to spend some more time there the next time I go to absorb all there is to offer in the rocket section which is really small. To see what model kits are available. I usually run in and out within a few minutes. Thanks again for the wisdom, Dyl
 

Spitfire222

NOTAMs: Now 200% more inclusive!
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
424
Reaction score
548
I'm already counting the minutes till the hobby store opens and I can head there to fix my spacer tube disaster from yesterday and I might also grab another RTF model just to have a reliable pre built stand by. Do they sell one without all the launchpad stuff just the rocket alone?

Check out the Estes Generic E2X. It's a quick-build, all-white rocket that makes a perfect canvas for a child's imagination. You can even try out vinyl wrapping them for some cool patterns. I always keep some handy, and as previously mentioned, they make excellent "wind-checking" rockets for the first flight of the day to see where and how far they'll drift under parachute. Have fun!
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
Spitfire,
I'll have to see if I can get that model there I'm heading there in a little bit to see what they've got to offer. I'm going to really take the time to see what's there. What's vinyl wrapping? Thanks, Dyl
 

icyclops

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
496
Reaction score
233
Hi all,
I got to spend some time with my grandson today, we started building our viking kit. But I made a beginner's mistake. I used the small tube to insert the engine block ring up in the body tube & didn't realize I was supposed to pull the tube out once the ring was at the proper height inside the body tube. So now the tube is glued in place. Is there a work around to still make it flyable. I worked on gluing techniques and played around with a couple different brands and also types of glue. I practice some filleting once the glue had set up on the wings and the launch lugs. I then sanded the fillets and the glassine shine off the tube as well as the nose cone and the wings. Just to get proper adhesion with the primer. If anyone has any ideas how to make this flyable I could really use the help. Thanks for any ideas. Dyl
What type of glue…elmers white, wood glue, ???
 

icyclops

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
496
Reaction score
233
I simply asked as to remove the tube it can depend on what was used, (water-based, etc.) not to start a brainiac thread…Geeez….calm down.
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
So you guys would be happy to know that I was able to get the spacer tube out today. Of course after I went to the hobby store to replace the Viking. I pried and pulled at it with a pair of needle nose pliers and a sharp pointy poker. I did crimp the body tube some. I also made a pass with wood glue on the wings because the white glue & CA I used to originally tack them in place with after sanding didn't look good. So I filleted with wood glue. They look so much better. Is there a way to fix crimping? I'd also like to put wood filler in the tube cracks. Do I just paint the cracks to fill in or coat the whole tube? Do you advise putting fillets of wood filler on the wings as well as the launch lug tube? Thanks for all the help you guys are really amazing. Also got some higher gritty wet/dry sand paper do I work with it wet? I made a handy dandy rocket stand out of some 1/2" pvc & joint pieces covered in foam. Thanks, Dyl
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
9,750
Reaction score
9,170
Location
Hawaii
So you guys would be happy to know that I was able to get the spacer tube out today. Of course after I went to the hobby store to replace the Viking. I pried and pulled at it with a pair of needle nose pliers and a sharp pointy poker. I did crimp the body tube some. I also made a pass with wood glue on the wings because the white glue & CA I used to originally tack them in place with after sanding didn't look good. So I filleted with wood glue. They look so much better. Is there a way to fix crimping? I'd also like to put wood filler in the tube cracks. Do I just paint the cracks to fill in or coat the whole tube? Do you advise putting fillets of wood filler on the wings as well as the launch lug tube? Thanks for all the help you guys are really amazing. Also got some higher gritty wet/dry sand paper do I work with it wet? I made a handy dandy rocket stand out of some 1/2" pvc & joint pieces covered in foam. Thanks, Dyl
Dyl, if you can would you post some pics of how badly damaged the body tube is?
If it's not too badly crimped you can paint the creases with thin CA (Super Glue, the watery kind not the thick gel). Use a Q tip, read all precautions on the label and use in a well ventilated area.
When the glue dries you can sand the creases smooth.
If it's badly damaged with cracks then I would just replace the tube or build a new kit.
 

John_lennon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
147
Reaction score
68
Kuririn,
Yes I'll do that in the morning and post some pics of the creasing. I don't think they'll really screw with the flight. Up until I was a little rough with it to get the tube out I was trying to be so careful with it, because it's really flimsy thin tubing to begin with. What's the correct name for that size body tube BT?
Thanks, Dyl
 
Top