1st Time Viking Build

[kuririn]

BT-20.

 

[John_lennon]

Kuririn,
Thanks for the tube info, here's the pics as requested

 

[John_lennon]

 

[John_lennon]

Is there ways to try to get rid of this stuff if there's not it'll be a total learning experience, for sure.

 

[John_lennon]

Also while using the wood filler do I just paint the spiraling tube seems or do I paint the whole thing. What's the wood filler mix ratio again? I was going to say 1 part filler to 2 parts water but I can't remember where I read it. This filler I got looks like thick glue consistency. It's the Elmer's stuff all you guys use. Do I apply it with a hobby paint brush, one that a child might use for watercolor painting?

 

[kuririn]

Thanks for the pics, Dyl.
That looks very repairable.
Like I said, you can paint the kinks and creases with a Q tip and thin CA, then sand down.
You can fill any remaining imperfections with CWF.
How to mix CWF?
Everybody does it their way, here's how I do it.
Put a chunk of CWF in a cup and slowly add water, a little at a time. Mix with a dowel by mashing/stirring.
Best way I can use to describe the consistency you want is like a thick malted shake. I don't measure to a ratio, I just eyeball it.
If you add too much water and it's too thin then throw in a little more CWF and stir/mash.
As for applying it to the spirals, well...
Again everybody has their own technique. Neil likes to do the whole tube. I like to brush it on the spirals. Some people run masking tape parallel to the spirals on both sides then apply the CWF. Chris Michielssen uses the back of a hobby knife and lays it into the spirals. Do it the way that works for you.
Here are some pics, I started doing some filling just today.



Now I gotta run to a launch this morning.
Laters!

 

[John_lennon]

Thanks for the pics, Dyl.
That looks very repairable.
Like I said, you can paint the kinks and creases with a Q tip and thin CA, then sand down.
You can fill any remaining imperfections with CWF.
How to mix CWF?
Everybody does it their way, here's how I do it.
Put a chunk of CWF in a cup and slowly add water, a little at a time. Mix with a dowel by mashing/stirring.
Best way I can use to describe the consistency you want is like a thick malted shake. I don't measure to a ratio, I just eyeball it.
If you add too much water and it's too thin then throw in a little more CWF and stir/mash.
As for applying it to the spirals, well...
Again everybody has their own technique. Neil likes to do the whole tube. I like to brush it on the spirals. Some people run masking tape parallel to the spirals on both sides then apply the CWF. Chris Michielssen uses the back of a hobby knife and lays it into the spirals. Do it the way that works for you.
Here are some pics, I started doing some filling just today.
View attachment 477547
View attachment 477548

Now I gotta run to a launch this morning.
Laters!

So I already sanded the glassine layer off the tube, nose cone, and wings. Will I have any negative effects of the cardboard leeching too much water from the CWF? Potentially damaging the cardboard tube? Do I want to sand the wood glue fillets on the wings, and the straw tube launching guide? Then apply CWF to that also forming fillets of this substrate material too? I'd like to do as many steps as possible even though it's my first build to get in the practice of doing them to prepare for what's to come down the road when I do more builds. Is there a way to insert multiple photos into the same reply in a thread or do I have to do a separate post for each picture?
Thanks for all the amazing advice and help. Dyl

 

[hcmbanjo]

Here's a whole page on CWF Seam Filling:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search?q=CWF
That first post talks about two different (thicker and thinner) mixes of CWF.
Now I just use the same thickness mix for balsa grain and body tube seam filling.

Kiririn mentions I use the back of an X-Acto to apply filler in body tube seams.
Close - but I actually use the sharper side of an older #11 blade.
Dip the tip, wipe off the back side of the blade, otherwise there is too much filler on the blade.
Set the blade tip in the seam and drag it back and forth over about 1" of the tube area.
With the filler on the blade tip and the tip in the seam, it pushes the filler into the seam trough.
Using a blade keeps the filler line narrower and easier to sand down.

We've all crimped BT-20s and BT-50s, especially when trying to install or pull out
a friction fitted engine.
Heavier walled BT-20s ( wall thickness of a BT-55 or 60) are available from jonrocket.com.
https://jonrocket.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_10_224&products_id=1686

 

[John_lennon]

Here's a whole page on CWF Seam Filling:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search?q=CWF
That first post talks about two different (thicker and thinner) mixes of CWF.
Now I just use the same thickness mix for balsa grain and body tube seam filling.

Kiririn mentions I use the back of an X-Acto to apply filler in body tube seams.
Close - but I actually use the sharper side of an older #11 blade.
Dip the tip, wipe off the back side of the blade, otherwise there is too much filler on the blade.
Set the blade tip in the seam and drag it back and forth over about 1" of the tube area.
With the filler on the blade tip and the tip in the seam, it pushes the filler into the seam trough.
Using a blade keeps the filler line narrower and easier to sand down.

We've all crimped BT-20s and BT-50s, especially when trying to install or pull out
a friction fitted engine.
Heavier walled BT-20s ( wall thickness of a BT-55 or 60) are available from jonrocket.com.
https://jonrocket.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_10_224&products_id=1686

Hcmbanjo,
So you use the back of the blade like a putty knife and spackling compound. Do you recommend sanding every time you apply glue to get the overflow. Also with the wet/dry sandpaper do sand with it moistened? Or just use it dry? Sorry for all the questions but I'd like to get the repetition of the proper steps down pat so it becomes like second nature. Allowing me to put forward the best attempts at making the best model I can.
Thanks as always for the wisdom and guidance, Dyl

 

[teepot]

I've filled spirals with a small paint brush and thinned CWF. Made for a lot of sanding. The last time I filled spirals I ran masking tape on both sides of the spirals. It left nice clean lines which were easier to sand since there was a sharp edge to knock down. This also helped to not pull the filler out of the spirals. I also tried to fill spirals with un-thinned CWF and a small clay spatula. That also made for a lot of sanding. As far as the kinks in the BT I think Kuririn has the right method. Try a few methods of filling the spirals and pick what's best for you.

 

[John_lennon]

Now it looks like a candy cane. Lol. If it doesn't fly maybe I'll eat it.

 

[neil_w]

Will I have any negative effects of the cardboard leeching too much water from the CWF?

Just be careful with it and keep track of how the cardboard is doing. This *is* a downside of my CWF-the-whole-body-tube approach... I can feel the tube getting soft as I work. However, I do what I can to dry the CWF as quickly as possible (just keep rubbing), and the tubes have all hardened up fairly quickly as the moisture evaporates out, so *knock on wood* all seems OK.

Do I want to sand the wood glue fillets on the wings, and the straw tube launching guide? Then apply CWF to that also forming fillets of this substrate material too?

I will repeat that applying CWF on top of glue fillets should not be necessary, and the CWF adds no strength. If you want really large HPR-style cosmetic fillets, then go to town as desired.

I have never found it necessary to sand wood glue fillets. Just make them smooth in the first place by drawing over them (gently) with a dampened finger. Here's a link to my own guide to doing fillets with Titebond Quick and Thick, which is really good for this purpose: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/doing-fillets-with-titebond-quick-and-thick.148632/

Similar principles apply to using regular wood glue (e.g. Titebond II) but the Quick and Thick has unique properties that demand some adjustments to technique.

Is there a way to insert multiple photos into the same reply in a thread or do I have to do a separate post for each picture?

You can attach up to 10 images per post. You can either (a) use the "Attach files" button, (b) drag files over to the edit window, (c) copy/paste bitmaps directly into the edit window, or (d) use the "Insert Image" button in the toolbar next to the "link" button.

(above image inserted by doing a screengrab and then pasting into the edit window).

Practice over in the Area 51 forum.

 

[kuririn]

Looks good Dyl.
By Jove, I think you've got it!
Heh.
Filler is for the balsa grain and tube spirals, If you're really OCD you can fill the lug spirals as well.
No need to fill wood glue fillets. If the fillets are not smooth enough then lay another glue fillet on top of that and smooth it out.
Neil has covered attaching multiple photos to a post above.
Personally, I don't sand the glassine before applying filler. Everything gets sanded down before the primer anyway.

 

[John_lennon]

Looks good Dyl.
By Jove, I think you've got it!
Heh.
Filler is for the balsa grain and tube spirals, If you're really OCD you can fill the lug spirals as well.
No need to fill wood glue fillets. If the fillets are not smooth enough then lay another glue fillet on top of that and smooth it out.
Neil has covered attaching multiple photos to a post above.
Personally, I don't sand the glassine before applying filler. Everything gets sanded down before the primer anyway.

What's the best way to clear the dust off things during sanding processes

 

[John_lennon]

Just be careful with it and keep track of how the cardboard is doing. This *is* a downside of my CWF-the-whole-body-tube approach... I can feel the tube getting soft as I work. However, I do what I can to dry the CWF as quickly as possible (just keep rubbing), and the tubes have all hardened up fairly quickly as the moisture evaporates out, so *knock on wood* all seems OK.


I will repeat that applying CWF on top of glue fillets should not be necessary, and the CWF adds no strength. If you want really large HPR-style cosmetic fillets, then go to town as desired.

I have never found it necessary to sand wood glue fillets. Just make them smooth in the first place by drawing over them (gently) with a dampened finger. Here's a link to my own guide to doing fillets with Titebond Quick and Thick, which is really good for this purpose: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/doing-fillets-with-titebond-quick-and-thick.148632/

Similar principles apply to using regular wood glue (e.g. Titebond II) but the Quick and Thick has unique properties that demand some adjustments to technique.

You can attach up to 10 images per post. You can either (a) use the "Attach files" button, (b) drag files over to the edit window, (c) copy/paste bitmaps directly into the edit window, or (d) use the "Insert Image" button in the toolbar next to the "link" button.
View attachment 477574
(above image inserted by doing a screengrab and then pasting into the edit window).

Practice over in the Area 51 forum.

Neil
I'm using my Android phone which wouldn't allow me to attach more than 1 image to my post. I did use the picture icon method for picture insertion. I wonder now if I were to try attach files if it'd allow me to put more than 1 image. Sorry if I'm asking the same question just trying to get as much done as possible and forgot it's already been asked and answered by a member of the group.

 

[kuririn]

What's the best way to clear the dust off things during sanding processes

Sand outside.

 

[John_lennon]

Sand outside.

I mean off of the rocket to proceed to the next step in the finishing processes

 

[SharkWhisperer]

View attachment 477572Now it looks like a candy cane. Lol. If it doesn't fly maybe I'll eat it.

That's a lotta work on a little Viking, but you're picking up some useful skills.

That said, it's looking quite possible that I'll win an Ebay auction for a bulk pack of Vikings this evening. I so, happy to gift you a few kits if you sort out whatever shipping costs might be...

 

[John_lennon]

That's a lotta work on a little Viking, but you're picking up some useful skills.

That said, it's looking quite possible that I'll win an Ebay auction for a bulk pack of Vikings this evening. I so, happy to gift you a few kits if you sort out whatever shipping costs might be...

Thanks Shark that's an amazing gesture but I have another one if I feel the need to revisit upon the experience. Hopefully once will be good enough. If it doesn't come out perfect or as close to perfect as a 1st build should be I'll know we overcame a huge faux pas on my part. If it comes out decent enough I'll use the other kit as another learning experience for my grandson since I worked through the kinks for real. Lol

 

[SharkWhisperer]

Thanks Shark that's an amazing gesture but I have another one if I feel the need to revisit upon the experience. Hopefully once will be good enough. If it doesn't come out perfect or as close to perfect as a 1st build should be I'll know we overcame a huge faux pas on my part. If it comes out decent enough I'll use the other kit as another learning experience for my grandson since I worked through the kinks for real. Lol

A-ok. I have a fleet of "semi-disposable" Wizards that I often use to check the upper winds before launching other rockets. At my smallish close-by field, they go pretty high on a B motor. At bulk pricing costs, a loss to the trees is a quiet "darn" instead of halting launches and rounding up the search party. Now adding some Vikings to that test fleet (if I win that auction. I'll probably mod the fins so they're not swept back and the first thing to hit the ground on a streamer, though...

 

[teepot]

What's the best way to clear the dust off things during sanding processes

Use denatured or isopropyl alcohol on a rag to wipe the dust off. Also wipe it down before painting.

 

[kuririn]

I mean off of the rocket to proceed to the next step in the finishing processes

Cheap chip brush from Home Depot.
You're gonna be sanding the primer in the next step anyway.

 

[John_lennon]

A-ok. I have a fleet of "semi-disposable" Wizards that I often use to check the upper winds before launching other rockets. At my smallish close-by field, they go pretty high on a B motor. At bulk pricing costs, a loss to the trees is a quiet "darn" instead of halting launches and rounding up the search party. Now adding some Vikings to that test fleet (if I win that auction. I'll probably mod the fins so they're not swept back and the first thing to hit the ground on a streamer, though...

When I bought it I didn't know it had a streamer I see that thing never coming down if it catches an updraft. I don't think I would've bought it had I known.

 

[John_lennon]

Cheap chip brush from Home Depot.
You're gonna be sanding the primer in the next step anyway.

I've got a few cheap brushes and I bought some acetone. I'm guessing I could use that as a solvent on a rag or will it destroy things like glue or putty?

 

[kuririn]

I've got a few cheap brushes and I bought some acetone. I'm guessing I could use that as a solvent on a rag or will it destroy things like glue or putty?

Acetone is a strong solvent.
Like teepot says, use alcohol if you feel the need to wipe it down.
I just brush off the powder since you're gonna be sanding again when you shoot the primer.

 

[John_lennon]

Acetone is a strong solvent.
Like teepot says, use alcohol if you feel the need to wipe it down.
I just brush off the powder since you're gonna be sanding again when you shoot the primer.

Looking for tips on paint I bought some krylon but I remember reading somewhere where people swore by this type of paint and not to use that type of paint. Chances are knowing how things are going for me I probably purchased the wrong stuff. When I first bought the model I know I bought some Tamiya spray paint to match the color I saw on the Viking ID Card in the package. Also what type of finish do I want satin, semi gloss, or gloss.

 

[DigBaddy]

Looking for tips on paint I bought some krylon but I remember reading somewhere where people swore by this type of paint and not to use that type of paint. Chances are knowing how things are going for me I probably purchased the wrong stuff. When I first bought the model I know I bought some Tamiya spray paint to match the color I saw on the Viking ID Card in the package. Also what type of finish do I want satin, semi gloss, or gloss.

Whatever you'd like to do! Gloss is good on a Viking.

Good thread, lots of great learning and sharing in here. Vikings and a bulk pack of A8-3s are good cheap fun!

 

[neil_w]

BTW this is why you keep talking about using wood filler over your fillets:

It looks like maybe you are not drawing your finger over the fillets after you apply the glue. If you do that (with a dampened finger) you'll get pretty darn smooth fillets that look good and don't require much additional finishing.

Here's a picture of a very long wet fillet from my aforementioned Quick and Thick tutorial:

This will dry very smooth and look good. It is quite easy to get decent results, and with practice you can quickly go from decent to "excellent".

 

[neil_w]

Looking for tips on paint I bought some krylon but I remember reading somewhere where people swore by this type of paint and not to use that type of paint. Chances are knowing how things are going for me I probably purchased the wrong stuff. When I first bought the model I know I bought some Tamiya spray paint to match the color I saw on the Viking ID Card in the package.

Paint is a huge topic, maybe even worse than glue. There are proponents of Rustoleum, Old Krylon, New Krylon, Ace, Duplicolor, Testors, Tamiya, Createx... if you can name a paint, there's someone here that swears by it. In most cases (not all!) technique is more important than the brand of paint. #1 rule is always follow the directions on the can with regard to recoat times. Very very much has been writtten on this forum about this topic.

The Tamiya paint is expensive but very good.

Also what type of finish do I want satin, semi gloss, or gloss.

That depends... what type of finish do you want? Any of the above are possible. I mostly use gloss (good base for decals) but recently I've had good luck with semi-gloss, and satin can look great too. Generally, the glossier the paint, the better it is as a base for decals. A common approach is to paint with gloss paint, apply decals, and then apply a clear coat with the desired finish. When I applied gloss clear-coat (Future) to my semi-gloss paint, it ended up looking like gloss.

Also, the glossier the finish, the easier it is to keep clean.

On the other hand, glossier finishes tend to show surface imperfections the most, which is why you never paint your ceiling with semi-gloss.

 

[John_lennon]

Whatever you'd like to do! Gloss is good on a Viking.

Good thread, lots of great learning and sharing in here. Vikings and a bulk pack of A8-3s are good cheap fun!

I originally got my rocket stuff at an estate sale our company was putting on. It seemed like a fairly good lot of stuff a couple RTF rockets. But it being used I really didn't assess what was there. I gave it to a coworker who'd launched the rockets a couple times and finally gave me back the stuff. One of the rockets he lost the other he broke a wing so I scrapped all the junk. It was then I was able to assess what was there there was a few launch pads 3 launch modules a big bag of motors, starters, plugs, a bunch of wadding. I then went to the hobby store to buy a few of my own models to do with my grandson. I purchased a launch kit just in case I was missing any necessary stuff and a Viking with a couple packs of motors and more wadding. I've probably got about 40 motors that I ended up with for free plus all the launch gear. So ultimately it's a win of a find for me at a house it probably would've had to be thrown out. Due to the explosive nature of the motors it wasn't something we could've donated. And that's how I ended up where you find me today writing this to you. Thanks, Dyl