1/7th scale Project 463 scratch build.

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More nosecone work. I sharpened the end of the threaded rod which will stay in the core of the nosecone and shaped some ply for the tip. At least this way the tip will be durable.

Nose cone.jpg
 
MINIONS! I have returned. I got some pics of the 1/6th scale model that I built right after the massacre in the dessert. I've fished around and still have tons of pictures of the two years of building. But, not to overrun this thread, I'll stick to the scale model, using reference photos of the monster rocket to fill in the missing details (there are some surface details that are missing on the model). The following pictures are of the upper stage and are meant for size and angle reference. (As that I am noodling out how this setup works, I'll post pics first then offer dimensions).
Also, I would like to thank Chris for reaching out to this old curmudgeon for info. Now I have to hook up our new scanner (for the old pictures) and my Cannon camera just broke so newer pictures might be slow getting here (this stops my posting on the project I'm on now https://www.therpf.com/f11/mpc-cygnus-176360/ )
Finally, my addressing you as minions is a wee bit of a power trip on my part...its a side effect of owning your own ICBM...at least for a short while. Now lets try those pictures.
463nose.jpg463parts1.jpg463tube.jpg463yb.jpg
 
Okay, must space pictures...first pic is a side profile of what the nose should look like. Using LOC 4" tubing, the overall length (sans shoulder) of the nose is 14.25". The bottom transition length is 3.25" , with the actual taper being 3.00" long. I used a piece of LOC 54mm motor tube (2.5" long) for the straight section. The upper cone is 8.25" long and tapers down to 1" in diameter. The tip is 1/4" long and tapers down to 3/16". The button on top is 3/16" x 3/16" The points on the yellow diamonds are at the end of the long taper, the top and bottom of the 54mm tube. There are two different "ACCESS" hatches which I can address later.
The second photo is an upper stage component shot. Just like the original, this model can be stored within itself to take up less space (may start a thread about that). The upper body tube is 4" LOC tubing 18" long. In the third picture , the placement of the naime and the signature red arrow is shown. ( Actual sizes available later). Looking at my pictures, there are four black outlined grey panels at the bottom and another "ACCESS" panel on the back of the tube.
The last picture is of the lower section. Due to events beyond my control...I'll have to comment on this later, especially about the red interstage cage.
 
Thanks Chuck, these are totally awesome! I had no idea that the red interstage portion stayed on the upper stage, I though it was part of the booster... I'll have to adjust my tubing.

I also had no idea it said "PROJECT 463" on it. Guess that happens when you only have photos of one side of something!

My nose cone tip needs refining too, I made it too pointy. Revisions coming soon!
 
MINIONS! BEHOLD!...I've got a headache, lets tone it down. We'll hash out the external details later. The bottom of the upper stage is to scale, including the part that sticks inside the upper body tube. The four tubes are LOC 29mm motor tubes. The exposed portion is 9" and the part that's hidden on top is another 2". The teal pedestal is LOC 4" tubing and is 2" long. The interstage cage is 1-7/8" tall. It's diameter fits inside of a piece of LOC 4"...I do have some good pictures of this in the "Before the Aero-pac folks had a coronary" phase. There are technically two versions of the upper fins. Originally, the fins were the length of the pedestal and the lattice was completely open. After viewing the teaser footage we sent to Aero-pac (After Down Right Ignorant, I thought it was proper to warn them of what's coming) concerns were expressed about the size of the upper fins. I made the fins bigger and enclosed some of the area in the interstage (the upper motor had to breath). The width of the panels behind the fins is 1-1/2". The flight version fins are 4" (mount side) x 2-12" (trailing edge) x 3-1/4" ( outer edge). If you want I will give you the smaller fin size. Alright, times up.
 
Thanks! I'm going with the as-launched fins. I think they look better that way.

This is good info. As you can see by my illustration on the first page of this thread I was mistaken at where the stages separated. I spent the whole day flying R/C, time to get back to the rocket. And some beer.
 
It just hit me ...oops, wait. MINIONS!, there we go. Have you seen Point39 Productions Monster Rockets video? If I remember correctly ( I have not watched it in 10 years) there is a walk through at my shop, section by section. Just wondering. There is more external construction details on the fin pedestal...I'll have to get to that l tomorrow.
 
If Chris doesn't mind a small diversion on his thread...MINION...you please me with these photos. For those who don't know this is Ron Schultz's never seen (or finished) second Top Gun Prototype. When I bought it from Ron, it was black (with metal flecks) and butterscotch. The chrome, stars, And checkerboard (sound familiar?) were my doing. I also acquired the original TG at the same time. After a while, I sold them to a nice fellow (forgive me for not remembering your name) who actually came to my shop to pick them up. Nice to see an "Old Friend". Thanks...not back to your regularly scheduled thread.
 
MINIONS!...time to finish with the upper stage. but first, someone just sent me a message though this page . I didn't get it ...popup blocker is a cruel mistress. I am still camera and scanner less but, I resorted to my personal favorite...the paint program. Let me clarify some cosmetic details that I had put on the upper fin can. The fins had rounded edges that I made by splitting 1/2" dowel in half and gluing them to the leading and trailing edges. In the original (small fin) design the fins were rigidly secured to the can but, after the afore mentioned change...they were removable. The drawing shows the earlier fin/fillet detail. I'll have to scour my photo collection for clues... on this I just don't remember.
Between the fins were placed vertical...whoa wait, I've just got a handle on some of this ,but I'll have to clarify later. I'm about to revise the drawing to show launch configuration.
View attachment 126902
Okay, I'm back. The drawing is for launch configuration. The fins bolted onto pre-existing slats...which were hand holds originally. I'll clarify later. The original fin locations got fitted for hand holds, which are rounded on each end.
For the model, the four tubes are mounted to where they are at the edge of the centering ring. The green circle in the center is a hole (no tube) for the scale (of the 4.5" diameter) upper motor. The bevel mentioned is to represent the aluminum plate that the bottom of the four tubes were mounted into.
 
One final thing, I fished up the interstage ( I did such a nice job on it , I couldn't throw it away) and here a couple of shots from an employee's cellphone.red1.jpgred2.jpg We'll discuss that next time.
 
MINIONS!... it seems you have to log in to view the drawing ,two posts above. So there!
 
MINIONS!... mainly Minion AMBIVILANCE, The next couple of posts will cover the details of the lattice Interstage. I'll give the dimensions of the real thing (pictured above), and you can do the math for your model. It is a 12-sided construct that is made from 3/4" square tubing. It is 13-1/2" tall (I thought it was 12), and (flat side to flat side) is 22-1/2" across. There are six vertical posts that set the two 'rings' apart, and the rest is classic zig-zag. The four tubes that are at the bottom are 3/4" round tube, 2-1/2" long. What are they? Tune in next time.
 
Is it just me, or is the whole minion thing kinda creepy (I just hope he doesn't dress in leather and have a whip... not that I'd know about that stuff)..... anyway, interesting build. KUTGW.
 
Heres a couple more pictures for your viewing pleasure . Hey Chuck , you should come down to Tampa some time and fly with us ( TTRA ) . I have 7 54mm skidmarks to put in the TG in the fall when it gets wet again . Do you still have the ignorant up in the rafters at the shop ?

Eric

motors.jpg

bottom up.jpg

oh ****.jpg

please replace your divits.jpg

upper inner structure.jpg
 
MINIONS... it seems I have to take a break to address the fans (and quell fears) about my resurfacing. Do not let the minion thing bother you, Kelltym88, I did say that I do have an odd sense of humor...and I'm just looking for something to be different than your typical thread post (This is Chris' thread anyway). Those who know me know that I'm mostly harmless. Thanks for the backup David, Eric, and Chadrog...Henry Rollins eh? I'll take that. Now, Back to the education of Ambivalence .

View attachment 127012
The four tubes seen on the bottom of the frame are the mounts to keep the upper stage from sliding off the booster blast plate. The blast plate (which we'll cover later when we discuss the bottom half) had four steel pins welded to the blast plate. The tubes and pins had a 5/16" hole drilled in them to take locking pins, which were used for stand-up, then removed for flight. Inside of the top ring was the upper motor lock collar (a ring 4.5" i.d. x 5.0"o.d. x1.25" long) held in place by four pieces of square tubing (which got ripped out on impact). I might make up a drawing, later, explaining the load bearing design of this rocket. and of course, I'll address the 1/4" steel blast plate.
 
Thanks Chuck, I was just about to ask how those four tubes in the interstage helped in joining the stages together.

For my 463 "tribute" I will likely just simulate the interstage cage in the visible areas in between the sustainer fins. I am not a welder and attempting to recreate the cage scaled down to 4" ain't happening.

On a side note I have the nosecone completely glassed and it is looking good. I received the extra 29mm tubing I needed for the booster so construction continues!
 
No problem there, Minion Ambivalence. I made the full cage on the scale model out of 1/8" dowel. Was difficult, but worth the effort. By the way, the enclosed outer areas on the cage were done with sheet metal. they formed flat faces that covered two facets. Have tons of never seen pics... got to get scanner operating.
 
3stoogesrocketry said:
Heres a couple more pictures for your viewing pleasure . Hey Chuck , you should come down to Tampa some time and fly with us ( TTRA ) . I have 7 54mm skidmarks to put in the TG in the fall when it gets wet again . Do you still have the ignorant up in the rafters at the shop ?

Eric
Click to expand...

Those are some nasty motors, Minion Eric. As for me showing up at a launch... anything's possible (It makes it easier to sell finished models). Yes , the booster part of Down Right Ignorant is still up there, the transition and upper tube became the nose cone for Project 463.
 
463x1.jpg463x2.jpg463x3.jpg
MINIONS! Behold some photos that have never been seen. First picture is of the original design of the upper stage. The orange section was originally four pieces of 8" sono-tube with the openings filled in with wood. The second photo is a close-up of the interstage (note the short fins and their mount detail. And the blast plate) with the originally intended (fake) upper motor nozzles. The grey slats were a foot longer than the pedestal and bolted to the orange section. The third pic is my 1/12th scale of the original design. I had a bunch of old Estes balsa noses and I liked the shape of that one. However, the idea of turned a 2' diameter nose this shape was not appealing. The final nose was more interesting ( and it got me another 3'). :grin:
 
How did you get such a nice finish on something this big? Big spray gun? The gloss just looks so uniform.
 
Sorry for the delay, but to quote a local talk host (during coverage of a big trial here) "I do believe these proceedings have gone squirrelly". Yes , automotive paint sprayer is the tool of choice when trying to cover large surface areas. Everything was prepped, primed , and sanded to a decent finish. The paint was Acrylic Enamel (without hardener), which gives a nice finish. From what I remember, I used a gallon of white, but only a quart of teal ( which I had matched from Plasti-kote Odds and Ends Teal #B45) The orange was extra we had at the shop. When I changed the tube section of the upper stage to the four tube arrangement, I also used colors we had on the shelf ( yellow and black). The Teal was available in those little hobby spray cans, which I kept clearing off my local Walmart shelf. Those fortunate few out at Black Rock got to see me do touch-up with these little cans. Last I checked, however, the color was only available in 2 oz. bottle (trust me I actually called the manufacturer to see if I could special order this...which was the only color they dropped from aerosol). I hope this helps...booster info soon. Oh yeah...MINIONS!, had to get that in.
 
How different was the "orange" on the booster from the "yellow" on the sustainer? From the images I have it all looked like the same color, which is what I planned on doing.
 
I'll try to put up comparative photos tomorrow...then you can be the judge. Time for bed...MINIOZZZz
 

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