Apogee Rocket - Shipping Costs explained - Makes sense

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Ez2cDave said:
To sell it at prices TEN TIMES higher or more and EXTORT people suffering in a crisis situation. These people are not doing it out of compassion, but GREED !
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I understand where Dave is coming from and he's right, but lets not get over worked on this okay? It's not worth getting upset. As I said we have choices and if you choose to buy or not to buy from a vendor that's your choice. If you choose to browse the website and not buy from Apogee that's your choice. There's no rule against that either. As I mentioned Tim has an exceptional website and nicely maintained and managed and well documented. If he feels his time is worth higher prices then rightly so. It's his website and his business and he can charge whatever price he wants for his time and service. All I'm saying is that having a nice website he should consider keeping his shipping cost more reasonable along with his prices. He would gain a lot more customers in the long run and make more money. Not sure how many of you feel the same, but this is just my opinion that's all. I have nothing personal against Tim. He brings a lot to the hobby and has a passion for what he does. I'm sure this is his main source of income as well so maybe that explains why he has to charge what he has to charge and he also has employees to pay...so that needs to be considered as well. So lets not get our feathers ruffled and be civil to one another.

Thanks!
 
I am all for people being able to charge what ever they want for a product. No matter what the context. If the product doesn’t sell they will have to make adjustments or they will be stuck with it. Appogee’s prices are a little more than others charge which is fine. For some purchases it still makes financial sense to buy from him. As shown in this thread though the shipping charges being so high/unknown probably deter more potential buyers than his slightly higher prices. I for one would never agree to a $75 shipping charge on a non hazmat order hoping to get a $60 refund. When I could order from three different vendors and still only pay $20 ish in shipping total on three different orders.
 
solid_fuel said:
As shown in this thread though the shipping charges being so high/unknown probably deter more potential buyers than his slightly higher prices. I for one would never agree to a $75 shipping charge on a non hazmat order hoping to get a $60 refund. When I could order from three different vendors and still only pay $20 ish in shipping total on three different orders.
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that wins the I-net today.. well said, and I completely agree..

It's like that sales man who finds out you bought the same thing somewhere else:

"Why didn't you come back, we could have made a deal! Prices aren't set in stone.."

"I came to you, and saw your price. Someone else had it cheaper. If your price is higher than someone else / others, why should I return to 'bargain' with you? You should know what the others are charging, and assume we all shop around.."
 
I was pricing out all the parts for my scrtchbuilt rocket that'll eventually get built (maybe 2 years ish?) and I noticed something- ordering from apogee is way more expensive. See following image.IMG_2125.jpg
Note:all prices are in CAD
 
Apogee is good though in their extensive experience and knowledge. They are also super helpful. Money can't buy that ;)
 
Yes, @Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech, apogee is helpful and has a good selection, I'll agree with that. However, @Voyager1, the video on that thread explains about shipping costs being expensive. The shipping on apogee was only barely more expensive than the other two sites, but on the other sites, pre-shipping was ~$25-30 and on apogee pre-shipping was ~$65.
 
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solid_fuel said:
I’m genuinely curious. Where would you buy ice from if people didn’t bring it from far away?
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I will "indulge" you, one last time . . .

The point is the callousness of their actions, not out of "good will", but as "predators" targeting victims of disaster.

Imagine if your mother were an Insulin-dependent diabetic and a natural disaster left her without her medication. You try your best to help her, without success, and here comes a guy selling "black market" Insulin for $2500 a bottle ( Cash only ), or more, saying "take it or leave it, it's your choice" ( there is no other source ) . . . Without it, your mother might die and it could be weeks or months before power to her neighborhood could be restored . . . You will need many bottles of Insulin . . . What would you do ?

During Hurricane Andrew, in 1992, some of these "pirates" got what they deserved on the streets of Miami, when the people became incensed and took matters into their own hands . . . It did not go well for the "Ice Pirates", at all . . . Use your imagination !
 
Not everything though. Some of their prices are fairly competitive. It pays to shop around. Plus there are an awful lot of rocket vendors that have web sites that look like Geocities originals. I'm not always comfortable with ordering with someone who couldn't be bothered to update their site in the last 20 years. It's not difficult. Anyways, you get what you pay for. Consistently excellent customer service and an up to date web site.
 
Vendors are free to set their prices and buyers are free to choose who they buy from. Tim’s been in business for a while and seems like his business is growing. So whatever he is doing seems to work for him.

Certainly for rocketeers in general, having more vendors out there gives us more options and variety, which is a good thing!
 
Ok. So where did you end up getting the insulin? The point is: Who are you to tell someone else what their service or product should be sold for? If you think it’s too much to pay then don’t engage them in their service or buy their product. And if it’s not worth them doing it they will stop offering that service or product.
 
I don't understand all the bashing of Apogee. They provide quality products and fantastic service. The aren't gouging, they charge what they charge and many people choose to pay it because they see value in their service and what they provide. If you don't like it just don't buy from them, there's no reason to go on a public forum and try to shame them into doing things the way you think they ought to be done.

They are not selling insulin to save your grandmother, or ice to people who need it to survive, they are selling hobby supplies. Things you don't need and can readily find elsewhere.

I buy from Apogee among almost every other rocketry vendor available. Their shipping is high sometimes, but there are instances where buying a variety of things from them instead of 1-2 items from 6 different vendors saves money on total shipping. And their prices on some items can be high, but on most things they are close to MSRP. Something people don't point out is that once you place a few orders with them you begin collecting points which amount to about a 10% rebate, which greatly reduces the price premium you have when buying from them.

No one is forcing you to buy from them, so don't buy from them. Stop complaining about a quality vendor because you don't like their pricing model.

If we want to discuss true price gouging, I suggest it move to a different thread instead of linking it to Apogee.
 
I buy my rocket supplies from most of the vendors listed in this thread, including Apogee. I do appreciate Apogee's product descriptions, newsletters, videos, and yes, customer service. Rainmaker made some good points, especially about the cost and time involved in using more or less vendors for a project. One thing we have to remember is that for MPR, and especially HPR, we are largely dealing with a cottage industry, in that some vendors may be out stock on some things for a long time, even Apogee. Relatively small companies make a lot of what we need for our hobby, or smaller enterprises within larger companies, or we borrow devices/products from other industries not readily accessible to individuals like us for small retail sales. We are definitely better off that there are so many people providing so many things. The postage does add up, and it would be nice to be able to really get everything in one place at one time, but I just don't see that happening. Our local club vendor is great for motors at MSRP (no hazmat fee, yay!) and some supplies, but you can't get everything there either. This is not about Apogee. I recently ordered Rocketpoxy from Wildman, and my $35 epoxy me cost me $50 with postage. I just couldn't find it around here, I suppose because no one wants to stock a lot of expensive stuff that has a finite shelf life. I chose Wildman because the web site listed a lot of other stuff that would be included that in the end was not included. Email to their customer service was ignored. The web site was obviously out of date. Am I going to return it? No, it's not worth the time and additional cost to me, and I need the stuff for what I am doing. Would I have made the purchase from I vendor I already knew if I had known that before I ordered? Very likely. In the overall scheme of things it is not that big of a deal, considering what I spend on one motor.
 
Zman1961 said:
I buy my rocket supplies from most of the vendors listed in this thread, including Apogee. I do appreciate Apogee's product descriptions, newsletters, videos, and yes, customer service. Rainmaker made some good points, especially about the cost and time involved in using more or less vendors for a project. One thing we have to remember is that for MPR, and especially HPR, we are largely dealing with a cottage industry, in that some vendors may be out stock on some things for a long time, even Apogee. Relatively small companies make a lot of what we need for our hobby, or smaller enterprises within larger companies, or we borrow devices/products from other industries not readily accessible to individuals like us for small retail sales. We are definitely better off that there are so many people providing so many things. The postage does add up, and it would be nice to be able to really get everything in one place at one time, but I just don't see that happening. Our local club vendor is great for motors at MSRP (no hazmat fee, yay!) and some supplies, but you can't get everything there either. This is not about Apogee. I recently ordered Rocketpoxy from Wildman, and my $35 epoxy me cost me $50 with postage. I just couldn't find it around here, I suppose because no one wants to stock a lot of expensive stuff that has a finite shelf life. I chose Wildman because the web site listed a lot of other stuff that would be included that in the end was not included. Email to their customer service was ignored. The web site was obviously out of date. Am I going to return it? No, it's not worth the time and additional cost to me, and I need the stuff for what I am doing. Would I have made the purchase from I vendor I already knew if I had known that before I ordered? Very likely. In the overall scheme of things it is not that big of a deal, considering what I spend on one motor.
Click to expand...

what else was going to be included? Just curious?
 
Several colors of dye, barrier cream (Happy Hands or something like that), gloves, and a stick of the Rocketpoxy version of epoxy putty. I just looked and the web site has been corrected. The point is, other vendors offered the same basic "pint" Rocketpoxy package without all the other stuff at essentially the same price. I only ordered the one item, and I could have gotten it cheaper by paying less postage elsewhere. But as I said, it is not that big of a deal. We will continue to have a the blessing and curse of multiple vendors, offering different products, styles, services, etc. that we all may may value differently. The blessing is far larger than the curse. As a BAR I will get past being a newbie at HPR, and I am sure will learn about more local sources and new methods, especially through club interaction. We all want to get our supplies as cheaply as we can, but there are other things that provide value.
 
Thank the Lord (and your local Veterans!) that we live in a free country. Be glad we rocketeers have multiple vendors to buy from (and NOT buy from.) Those vendors who are still in business are satisfying their customers and have as much right to charge what they charge as you have to buy or not buy from them. Selling model rocket stuff is not like selling necessities after a hurricane or earthquake. Tim’s business model and website and price structure works for him. More power to him. I really liked the DarkBird glider rocket I got from Apogee. I don’t think anyone else carried it.

“Gouging” and “piracy” are not possible long term options for a business in a free market economy. You don’t like his prices or videos, enjoy exercising your right to buy and browse elsewhere.
 
DAllen said:
Plus there are an awful lot of rocket vendors that have web sites that look like Geocities originals. I'm not always comfortable with ordering with someone who couldn't be bothered to update their site in the last 20 years.
Click to expand...
The Semroc web site looked sorta like that (before Carl died and Semroc was sold). But they had THE BEST SHIPPING response of any rocket company I know if. Some would order in the morning, get e-mail notifications in less than an hour that it was being processed, and SHIPPED that afternoon! I do not mean "printed a label" saying it was shipped (but not taken to the post office till the next day), REALLY SHIPPED that day.

On the flip side, there can be very "flashy" looking websites with poor to terrible customer response.

So, it's not the look of the website. It's the people running the business and processing/shipping the orders.
 
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Ez2cDave said:
I will "indulge" you, one last time . . .

The point is the callousness of their actions, not out of "good will", but as "predators" targeting victims of disaster.

Imagine if your mother were an Insulin-dependent diabetic and a natural disaster left her without her medication. You try your best to help her, without success, and here comes a guy selling "black market" Insulin for $2500 a bottle ( Cash only ), or more, saying "take it or leave it, it's your choice" ( there is no other source ) . . . Without it, your mother might die and it could be weeks or months before power to her neighborhood could be restored . . . You will need many bottles of Insulin . . . What would you do ?

During Hurricane Andrew, in 1992, some of these "pirates" got what they deserved on the streets of Miami, when the people became incensed and took matters into their own hands . . . It did not go well for the "Ice Pirates", at all . . . Use your imagination !
Click to expand...

Or one could take the initiative, and get her an old school kerosene powered refrigerator to keep said insulin cold, if she lived in an hurricane prone area. Or YOU could do that as an act of love for her, keeping it at YOUR place if that made sense, and then she would be covered, just in case. But that would require that one assume personal responsibility for ones own well being, and make some actual preparations for a predictable natural disaster (living in a hurricane prone area). And nobody wants to do that these days, as its easier to stand in line with the other sheep and whine like a socialist that it isn't "fair", rather than taking any action to ensure that they wouldn't be dependent on the goodwill of others.

solid_fuel said:
Ok. So where did you end up getting the insulin? The point is: Who are you to tell someone else what their service or product should be sold for? If you think it’s too much to pay then don’t engage them in their service or buy their product. And if it’s not worth them doing it they will stop offering that service or product.
Click to expand...

Have to agree with you there.
 
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solid_fuel said:
Ok. So where did you end up getting the insulin? The point is: Who are you to tell someone else what their service or product should be sold for? If you think it’s too much to pay then don’t engage them in their service or buy their product. And if it’s not worth them doing it they will stop offering that service or product.
Click to expand...

Bill S said:
Or one could take the initiative, and get her an old school kerosene powered refrigerator to keep said insulin cold, if she lived in an hurricane prone area. Or YOU could do that as an act of love for her, keeping it at YOUR place if that made sense, and then she would be covered, just in case. But that would require that one assume personal responsibility for ones own well being, and make some actual preparations for a predictable natural disaster (living in a hurricane prone area). And nobody wants to do that these days, as its easier to stand in line with the other sheep and whine like a socialist that it isn't "fair", rather than taking any action to ensure that they wouldn't be dependent on the goodwill of others.
Click to expand...

This has become an "orchard of ignorance" . . . I have no further input, except as pertains directly to Apogee.

Dave F.
 
georgegassaway said:
The Semroc web site looked sorta like that (before Carl died and Semroc was sold). But they had THE BEST SHIPPING response of any rocket company I know if. Some would order in the morning, get e-mail notifications in less than an hour that it was being processed, and SHIPPED that afternoon! I do not mean "printed a label" saying it was shipped (but not taken to the post office till the next day), REALLY SHIPPED that day.

On the flip side, there can be very "flashy" looking websites with poor to terrible customer response.

So, it's not the look of the website. It's the people running the business and processing/shipping the orders.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the only way to know is to order items from different websites and over time you will be able to determine which sites offer the best items and service. Every vendor has something to offer. One stop, maybe lower shipping rates, more selection, reasonable prices...you have to decide whats important to you at the time of your purchase.
 
Apogee does give rewards points, which amounts to 10% off future orders. So the mark-up above MSRP may be negated by cashing in rewards points...
 
I would call and inquire if I were quoted a shipping amount that seemed exorbitant. Web based shopping carts with overly high shipping on some orders seem to be the norm for rocket vendors, with post order shipping credits being applied.

Better to call and ask than speculate about a vendor intentionally over charging on shipping as a source of profit.
 
Ez2cDave said:
This has become an "orchard of ignorance" . . . I have no further input, except as pertains directly to Apogee.

Dave F.
Click to expand...

From the guy who indirectly accuses Apogee of price gouging and who repeatedly refuses to answer simple questions but comes back at others calling them ignorant. And trying to ‘indulge us’ but yet refuses to actually answer the questions asked. But instead resorts to name calling and deflection. Now he’s going to take his ball and run home.
 
BF Rockets said:
Apogee does give rewards points, which amounts to 10% off future orders. So the mark-up above MSRP may be negated by cashing in rewards points...
Click to expand...

So really you're not saving anything because the items are all marked above MSRP. Of course the 10% is nice but, only applies after you spend over a $100 allowing you you to cash in your points. Something like that? You guys buy where you want, but the only time would ever buy from Apogee is if its my very very last resort and even then I would go without.
 
Co-leader of the LRP said:
I was pricing out all the parts for my scrtchbuilt rocket that'll eventually get built (maybe 2 years ish?) and I noticed something- ordering from apogee is way more expensive. See following image.View attachment 398281
Note:all prices are in CAD
Click to expand...

Complaining about it on here will not help your cause, let apogee know or order someone else and apogee will get the message.
 
solid_fuel said:
From the guy who indirectly accuses Apogee of price gouging and who repeatedly refuses to answer simple questions but comes back at others calling them ignorant. And trying to ‘indulge us’ but yet refuses to actually answer the questions asked. But instead resorts to name calling and deflection. Now he’s going to take his ball and run home.
Click to expand...

There is no question that most of Apogee's prices are higher than other competitors.

Now, since shipping rates are set by USPS, FedEx, or UPS, the same items should, basically, have identical shipping costs.

However, Apogee's shipping costs are significantly higher . . . Apogee does not state that any "handling fees" are applied.

Hiding behind and blaming it on a "shipping algorithm" and saying you will refund the difference later is "specious", at best.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Shipping-Fees-Explained

 
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