If you dug into the supply chains for most of the products you buy I'm sure you'd find a lot you didn't like.
We often and unknowingly turn a blind eye to horrors worse than CT.
We often and unknowingly turn a blind eye to horrors worse than CT.
Cory,
I promise not to start pointing fingers or naming names.
The problem revolves around filament-wound Rocketry components and the fact, with one exception ( which I will not name, by request and out of respect for him), that virtually EVERY Kit Manufacturer gets their components from ONLY ONE SUPPLIER.
Without the SINGLE SUPPLIER, essentially, there would be no composite tubing or nose cones for Rocketry.
The SINGLE SUPPLIER has a long-standing history of "less than stellar" ( I'm being polite ) performance in delivering items, demanding that orders be prepaid in full, in advance, often taking months or even years ( sometimes never ) to, eventually, fill the orders.
Now, when a Rocketeer has ordered Kits or Components and paid in full, in advance, from a Company . . . The Kit Manufacturer then "takes his profit margin" and pays the SINGLE SUPPLIER in full, in advance . . . The SINGLE SUPPLIER, then, either manufactures the ordered items ( or not ) . . . Often, the SINGLE SUPPLIER uses the funds received to fill other orders that he is severely back-ordered on, rather than making the items which have just been ordered . . . A "vicious cycle", then, ensues.
One might, logically, ask the obvious question, " Why didn't the SINGLE SUPPLIER already have the funds necessary to complete all of those previous orders ? " . . . Now, THAT is a DAMN GOOD QUESTION !
Another logical question might be, " Why do Kit Manufacturers keep using the SINGLE SUPPLIER, since he continues to do what he does ? " After some research, I have come to understand that he, basically, keeps them "on the hook" in 3 ways :
(1) He is the "sole source" . . . ( except for the one I can't mention ) . . . A "Monopoly".
(2) He has the "lowest prices" . . . ( by how much is unknown ). I suspect that, if all of the Kit Manufacturers "put their heads together" and approached the "other supplier", the prices could be the same, possibly lower. If that happened, the SINGLE SUPPLIER would be "up the creek, without a paddle" and, likely, go out of business.
(3) The SINGLE SUPPLIER owes so many Kit Manufacturers so much product that they can't risk ticking him off and NEVER getting their items and losing their money. So, they keep ordering, and paying in full, in advance, because of the way the SINGLE SUPPLIER runs his business, where he constantly needs "money up front" to, retroactively, fill orders. At present, he is the ONLY Supplier and has a "Monopoly", at least for now. This needs to CHANGE !
Sorry to be so long-winded . . .
Dave F.
I fully agree. Yes, it's tedious to glass a paper or phenolic tube...but isn't construction half the fun? And add the satisfaction of doing more of the rocket yourself. And of no longer supporting some supplier who has demonstrated over the years that s/he is dishonest and cannot be trusted with your money.You know, if its such an issue to buy CT tubing you could always just buy one of the awesome paper tube kits from Madcow and just glass/CF those tubes instead.
there is a second, different from the one you can't mention.
Cory,
I promise not to start pointing fingers or naming names.
The problem revolves around filament-wound Rocketry components and the fact, with one exception ( which I will not name, by request and out of respect for him), that virtually EVERY Kit Manufacturer gets their components from ONLY ONE SUPPLIER.
Without the SINGLE SUPPLIER, essentially, there would be no composite tubing or nose cones for Rocketry.
The SINGLE SUPPLIER has a long-standing history of "less than stellar" ( I'm being polite ) performance in delivering items, demanding that orders be prepaid in full, in advance, often taking months or even years ( sometimes never ) to, eventually, fill the orders.
Now, when a Rocketeer has ordered Kits or Components and paid in full, in advance, from a Company . . . The Kit Manufacturer then "takes his profit margin" and pays the SINGLE SUPPLIER in full, in advance . . . The SINGLE SUPPLIER, then, either manufactures the ordered items ( or not ) . . . Often, the SINGLE SUPPLIER uses the funds received to fill other orders that he is severely back-ordered on, rather than making the items which have just been ordered . . . A "vicious cycle", then, ensues.
One might, logically, ask the obvious question, " Why didn't the SINGLE SUPPLIER already have the funds necessary to complete all of those previous orders ? " . . . Now, THAT is a DAMN GOOD QUESTION !
Another logical question might be, " Why do Kit Manufacturers keep using the SINGLE SUPPLIER, since he continues to do what he does ? " After some research, I have come to understand that he, basically, keeps them "on the hook" in 3 ways :
(1) He is the "sole source" . . . ( except for the one I can't mention ) . . . A "Monopoly".
(2) He has the "lowest prices" . . . ( by how much is unknown ). I suspect that, if all of the Kit Manufacturers "put their heads together" and approached the "other supplier", the prices could be the same, possibly lower. If that happened, the SINGLE SUPPLIER would be "up the creek, without a paddle" and, likely, go out of business.
(3) The SINGLE SUPPLIER owes so many Kit Manufacturers so much product that they can't risk ticking him off and NEVER getting their items and losing their money. So, they keep ordering, and paying in full, in advance, because of the way the SINGLE SUPPLIER runs his business, where he constantly needs "money up front" to, retroactively, fill orders. At present, he is the ONLY Supplier and has a "Monopoly", at least for now. This needs to CHANGE !
Sorry to be so long-winded . . .
Dave F.
Not that I am interested in filament wound anything, but does anyone else see what I see?
An Opportunity. If someone was able to invest in the start up and staff it, you could quickly gain a great client base and reputation.
Too bad I'm so poor, sounds like something I would enjoy doing.
I don’t want to get into this, as it’s none of my business, but here we go. I don’t think that is right at all, it should 100% be on Ken, he promised his customers something and he broke that promise. You should press Ken, call him everyday like you are his boss until he delivers. It should not be Madcows, AMW, Rocketman, or any other of his suppliers faults, as it’s going to hurt everyone in the long run. Boycotting a vendor will never be good for the hobby no matter what way you look at it, and just spreads hate, that’s the last thing we need. Rocketry is supposed to be joyful, and something to do to get away from the crazy politics. It’s all about having control of the situation, like I have all 100 of my GoFast Kits in my hand right now (other than the ones that have shipped). Me shipping late, isn’t CT’s fault, it’s 100% mine as they’re in my hands. Ken should’ve had the kits in his hands before selling them.The situation that you describe above still doesn't explain why a year later a vendor is still unable to deliver. It's a case of a bad supplier that hasn't changed behavior and likely won't until is affects his pocketbook. By voting with dollars through vendors that he supplies, the likely course is that those vendors will put added stress on the supplier and threaten and/or move to a different more reliable supplier thereby achieving the desired end result, either through the supplier changing behavior or going out of business.
I don’t want to get into this, as it’s none of my business, but here we go. I don’t think that is right at all, it should 100% be on Ken, he promised his customers something and he broke that promise. You should press Ken, call him everyday like you are his boss until he delivers. It should not be Madcows, AMW, Rocketman, or any other of his suppliers faults, as it’s going to hurt everyone in the long run. Boycotting a vendor will never be good for the hobby no matter what way you look at it, and just spreads hate, that’s the last thing we need. Rocketry is supposed to be joyful, and something to do to get away from the crazy politics. It’s all about having control of the situation, like I have all 100 of my GoFast Kits in my hand right now (other than the ones that have shipped). Me shipping late, isn’t CT’s fault, it’s 100% mine as they’re in my hands. Ken should’ve had the kits in his hands before selling them.
So why doesn’t he send you the tubes if they’re done already? I would be calling him everyday until it’s done, Ken has no excuse to screw his dedicated customers.I've been in email and phone contact with him roughly every 2 weeks to a month since the order, letting him know the situation and being very patient. Last correspondence (last week) he was waiting for fins and rings. Tubes were already done. It was paypal, so there's a record.
That is slightly incorrect. Some larger FG parts specifically say that "This item is made to order and usually ships within 2-3 weeks - please call or email if you want to check specific ship times."I could not agree more on both points. My orders with Madcow have been flawless. Since Madcow does not sell products that are not in stock, that is the most effective shield for customers.
Out of curiosity...
Aside from the specific situation mostly discussed above...
Are there other reasons to boycott a vendor?
I've got two that will never see a dime of mine:
One is for purely personal reasons. I used to purchase from this person but stopped after an incident. I let him know and we went our separate ways. I respect his work and what he does, but I won't purchase from him anymore. I won't out that vendor in public but in private whenever that product comes up, I make my stance clear to people that know me. My minor protest has very little effect on that vendor's bottom line (virtually zero), but it's a stance based on personal reasons and principles.
The other has engaged in pretty despicable tactics, doesn't respect copyrights, has no respect for club rules, and has outright lied to myself and several others. I'm not gonna out that vendor here so that this discussion stays academic, but myself and others make no bones about the fact that this vendor will never see a penny of our money; further, we'll discourage everyone we know and interact with from doing business with this person.
Aside from those two vendors, I try to spend $ with my local vendor as much as possible. When I visit elsewhere, I try to be sure to grab at least an item or two from those local vendors as well. I understand the dynamics of our niche market, and I want my small contribution to have the greatest impact possible. Conversely, the academic idea of a boycott is a good one. "Vote with your dollars" is exactly right. If we all support (and conversely refuse to support) vendors that we prefer for whatever reason, we can have an impact on the market. If someone is trying to make a living at this, then their basic responsibility is to themselves and their own best interest. If a vendor engages in poor business practices, losing business is a natural consequence of that. That's kind of central to capitalism...
Teddy is just a jersey boy... right ?
Out of curiosity...
Aside from the specific situation mostly discussed above...
Are there other reasons to boycott a vendor?
I've got two that will never see a dime of mine:
One is for purely personal reasons. I used to purchase from this person but stopped after an incident. I let him know and we went our separate ways. I respect his work and what he does, but I won't purchase from him anymore. I won't out that vendor in public but in private whenever that product comes up, I make my stance clear to people that know me. My minor protest has very little effect on that vendor's bottom line (virtually zero), but it's a stance based on personal reasons and principles.
Not that I am interested in filament wound anything, but does anyone else see what I see?
An Opportunity. If someone was able to invest in the start up and staff it, you could quickly gain a great client base and reputation.
Too bad I'm so poor, sounds like something I would enjoy doing.
"Hello I am Standing right here " in my best Teddy voice.I've looked into that very same thing. "The vendor that will not be named" has cornered the market very effectively by doing one thing. Low pricing. I could not make my own FWFG tubing and sell it as cheaply as he does especially if I were trying to recoup equipment costs in a reasonable timeframe. That's the reason nobody else has stepped up, IMO.
I can't speak for others but I would be willing to pay slightly more to a vendor that is ethical and will actually deliver product and keep resellers stocked. I have a few kits from the person who cornered the market but not in several years and never again. I refuse to support them.I've looked into that very same thing. "The vendor that will not be named" has cornered the market very effectively by doing one thing. Low pricing. I could not make my own FWFG tubing and sell it as cheaply as he does especially if I were trying to recoup equipment costs in a reasonable timeframe. That's the reason nobody else has stepped up, IMO.
I was not aware you owned a FWFG tubing factory."Hello I am Standing right here " in my best Teddy voice.
Those who know will laugh
Personcott.In this politically correct world with gender neutrality the way it is ,should it not just be "cott" ?
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