Wayco's Ultimate Darkstar build

[watermelonman]

I brew my own beer, but that doesn't mix too well with building...or flying...

We bring beer out to Black Rock for consumption post flying. I need to get another batch together so I can bring my own!

 

[Wayco]

Did my ejection charge tests Monday, hope none of my neighbors were still sleeping at 7 am. I got the scoop on sizing them from CJ, and as you would expect, his suggestions were right on.
First test was with the Skyangle XL burrito wrapped in a 24" Top flite pad, stuffed into the enormous 48" payload tube. I used a 4.5 gram charge in a 6 gram Doghouse rocketry charge cup, with lots of dog barf!


The second video is of the drogue deployment charge. It's a 3 gram charge that pushes the entire upper section off the fin can. I have the fin can butted up to my Jeeps tire, so it's not going anywhere. The MMT has a 4 grain 98mm casing in it.


I got up early and took advantage of the cooler temperatures to paint the rest of the rocket this morning. I had previously painted the fin can, but ran out of Dupli-Color Metalcast red, so it was a bit light. After a trip to Auto Zone, I had enough paint to finish it, just needed to wet sand the previous coat and add my Stickershock vinyl. Did that early this morning and had it outside by 8 am. The storm that cooled everything down last night also popped the humidity up to about 60%, but I took a chance and sprayed it on anyway. Came out better than I expected, almost as good as my Extreme, which I consider one of my best paint jobs. I will be taking some pictures tomorrow, and post them up next chance I get.

 

[GRIFFIN]

Remind me at Airfest to show you the onboard video of my ultimate where a 5 gram charge did NOT separate the rocket and it relied on the back up. I won't post here what I use, but I will share my experience and let you know that I have flown mine 14 times this way and have 100% success with it.

In short....not enough BP for my liking. Take it for what it's worth. I know not to many people go astray from the words of CJ! :wink:

 

[Wayco]

Remind me at Airfest to show you the onboard video of my ultimate where a 5 gram charge did NOT separate the rocket and it relied on the back up. I won't post here what I use, but I will share my experience and let you know that I have flown mine 14 times this way and have 100% success with it.

In short....not enough BP for my liking. Take it for what it's worth. I know not to many people go astray from the words of CJ! :wink:

I already went astray when I used the 5/16" eye bolt for my drogue anchor point. Dan P. suggested that.
The charge cup will hold over 6 grams, I will be talking to you at Airfest. Every rocket is different, that's why we do the ground tests.
CJ also suggested a larger drogue chute, what are you using for that?

 

[Mustang67]

I went to that thread and noticed something when I enlarged the picture of the failed eye bolt. The bottom picture shows it the best, the whole thing is bent across the length, caused by shear force, it wasn't meant to be used that way. When I looked at it closer, I noticed that it was like one I have and did not use, it was poorly made in China. I pulled it out and took a picture of it next to the American made ones I get from McMaster-Carr:

The Chinese one is not flat where it seats against the bulkhead and can rock back and forth, even when tight. The metal looks porous, and the threads are rough. The American made one is thicker in the eye, and larger overall, and the threads and base have a much better finish.
Like I said in that thread, you can destroy anything with enough mass and momentum. The owner of the rocket said that the failure occurred during or at the end of boost, so there were other factors involved. No matter how conscientious we are with our builds, when the "stuff" hits the fan, it's always good to be a long way away, that's why we put the "Large, Dangerous rocket ships" way out there. 'Nuf said.

Yesterday, I supervised Sharon while she started work on her L-3 project, using a drill press for the first time to drill holes in the aft centering ring of her 8" Gizmo XL for the 98mm aeropac retainer. She should be starting her build thread soon.

Here are the pictures I promised to post up of my avbay switches:

Not perfect, but that's my first attempt to recess the rotary switches into the switch band.

My least favorite part of a build is drilling holes, especially in filament wound fiberglass. But there are a bunch of them, and I started on that yesterday morning also. I drilled six holes, three to hold the payload to the avbay and three more to hold the nosecone to the N/C coupler. All of these will be countersunk on the outside, and have pem nuts pressed into the inside of the coupler.
I have covered this before, but since I really like pem nuts, and have a simple method to insert them, I'm going back over it now.
First, you want to drill a straight hole with as little fraying on the inside as you can manage. I do this by applying my favorite sticky green masking tape to the inside of the avbay where the drill will pop through:

Then I have a large diameter PVC pipe to back it up:

Slide the payload tube and avbay onto the pipe:

And drill down through the tube slowly, while pressing down on the tube:

I'm using 8-32 flat head screws for this rocket, and drill my initial holes with a 5/32" drill, just large enough to screw into and hold the parts together while I drill the next hole. One hole at a time, adding another screw to keep everything in line. When I finished the avbay/payload, I repeated the process with the nosecone and it's coupler. Now I take it all apart and re-drill the inside holes to 1/4", which is the correct size for the 8-32 pem nuts. Be careful drilling the larger holes, if you go too fast it will pop through and fray the filaments despite the tape and pipe backup.
To install the pem nuts, you need a longer 8-32 screw, a nut and a couple of washers. The top washer should fit the screw, the bottom one should have a larger inside diameter to clear the pem nut as it pulls in:

Stick the screw and stacked washers through the 1/4" hole and screw a pem nut on from the inside. Hold the screw and tighten the nut until the pem nut is snugged up into the tube:

It was starting to warm up by the time I had all the holes drilled, so I took everything into the epoxy/laundry room to insert the pem nuts and countersink the payload tube and nosecone:

Here's what it should look like when you get it just right:

I also worked a bit more on my recovery, packing the Skyangle XL chute in my new 24" x 24" Nomex pad I got from Top Flight.

I always start by laying everything out with the nosecone end on my right and the payload tube/avbay on the left. I put the first wrap of the pad around the chute and pull it tight:

Then continue to wrap the shroud lines in, separate from the canopy:

Next, I pull the open ends together, paying particular attention to the left side, which is facing the ejection charges. You don't want any gaps there:

Here it is all wrapped up:

I'm trying something new this time, I made a small pocket to hold the tubular nylon shock cord:

I'm gonna slide it over the end of the burrito to protect the (expensive) Skyangle chute from the ejection gas:

The Kevlar cord is fairly short, just enough to get the burrito out of the payload. As the nosecone pulls everything away, I should get a nice staged deployment.

With the pocket on the end, and a couple of shovels full of dog barf between the charge cups and the nomex, I should keep everything from getting damaged by what I figure will be a 5 gram ejection charge.

Slick idea using the PVC to assist in drilling the holes! I like it.

 

[Wayco]

I occasionally have cause to go back and review an old build thread I did when I was posting more stuff on this forum. I'm sure that hundreds of new members have joined since this build thread was posted, and some of you have never seen one of the many build threads I contributed to this forum. Oh well, plenty of good stuff is available here, and despite the fact that this thread is dated, most of the stuff here is how I still build.
If you have ever used CJ's thread here:
How To Build A "Stock" 3IN DARKSTAR CJ Step By Step
You will recognize most of my techniques come from that most excellent thread.

So, as I have done with several of my old threads, I'm updating you on the history of "Redline", my largest build to date.
I did indeed load this behemoth into our toy hauler and take it to Airfest in 2015, at least most of it. Somehow, the nosecone got left behind, so it did not fly at that launch. It's first flight was on an M2505, but at our home field with TRA/PHX April 24th, 2016. It was a good flight to 8273 ft.
It's second flight was at LDRS, with Rocketry Organization of California, held on the Lucerne dry lake June 11th, 2016. First flight of the day as a "wake up call" on an M2000 Redline. It went up to 10,766 ft. on that flight.

After that flight I added Eggtimer WiFi switches, replacing the Shurter rotary switches. Climbing a ladder to arm my altimeters was a pain. We took it back to Airfest in 2017 and flew it on an N2000. The field was muddy, so we walked it out to the 60's with some help from our friends. The WiFi switches worked great, and it went up to 15,638 ft. on that flight. Sharon and I walked it out of the muddy field behind our campsite.

In 2018 LDRS was held in California again, hosted by Tripoli Central California. The great state of California limits high power flights to "M" motors, so we went back to the M2000 Redline for that flight, and got similar results, 10,398 ft.
Later that year, we took it back to Airfest and flew it on my favorite motor for this rocket, an N2220 Dark Matter. It took me a week to settle down after that flight. It was the most awesome visual and audio experience. Landed two miles away after flying to 11,376 ft. I had added a Featherweight GPS to the nosecone, and both it and the Eggfinder matched GPS coordinates for an easy recovery right by the road, just 100 yards past the power lines.


After a flight like that, I figured there was only one motor that could be more exciting, the O3400 Imax. So in 2019 we bought it from AMW/Pro-X and Robert DeHate helped me build it. Good thing too, because it was difficult gluing the grains and getting it all together. On September 1st, 2019 we waited all day for the clouds to clear, and around 3 PM we were cleared for launch. I couldn't get one of the WiFi switches to connect, so it flew with one altimeter on. There were six other WiFi devices detected on my phone, and five big rockets on the 80's pads ready to go, so off it went! Apogee at 21,111 ft. and another long recovery. When we recovered it, both 1515 rail buttons were gone, and the edges of the decals were folded back, despite being clear coated. Open rocket estimated it hit Mach 1.6 on that flight.
"Redline" has not been flown since that flight. In 2020, we were not able to attend Airfest due to COVID-19 restrictions. We did take it to Airfest in 2021, but most of that launch was rained out. I built an N3000 Redline that I plan to fly it on later this year.
To date, "Redline" has burned 70,952 Ns with six flights.


As always, any comments or questions are greatly appreciated. Please take some time and review this thread, it's a good read, and most questions were answered during the build.

 

[TheTank]

I enjoyed reading the follow-up history. Great addition to a build thread!

 

[jd2cylman]

Wayne, when that red case gets too heavy, let me know. I’ll gladly take off your hands…

 

[Wayco]

Wayne, when that red case gets too heavy, let me know. I’ll gladly take off your hands…

There's a story behind that case, much like you mentioned. We were at ROC for a launch, Sunday late in the day. A guy walked by with that case over his shoulders. I told him something like what you just said, and he said sure, how much do you want to spend? I said we might be able to scrape together $100, knowing it was a joke. I think we had about four dollars in our pockets when we left, but I bought it for $100.

 

[jd2cylman]

Ooh, you could double your money. I'll give you $200.00 and shiny new new nickle...

 

[Wayco]

You know who I'm married to, right? You probably don't remember the last time Sharon let me sell any of HER motor hardware. Yeah, like N-E-V-E-R.
Right now I've got a Redline load in it, and a Dark Matter load waiting, so don't be holding your breath, buddy.

 

[fyrwrxz]

Gonna miss you and Sharon at LDRS this year, sure you won't change your mind? I'm bringing grandaughters(!) and Chris says to say Hi! Still talks about the champagne. Thanks for the GWhiz units, give Hardline a hug for me. Straight smoke and good chutes!

 

[rocketgeek101]

I occasionally have cause to go back and review an old build thread I did when I was posting more stuff on this forum. I'm sure that hundreds of new members have joined since this build thread was posted, and some of you have never seen one of the many build threads I contributed to this forum. Oh well, plenty of good stuff is available here, and despite the fact that this thread is dated, most of the stuff here is how I still build.
If you have ever used CJ's thread here:
How To Build A "Stock" 3IN DARKSTAR CJ Step By Step
You will recognize most of my techniques come from that most excellent thread.

So, as I have done with several of my old threads, I'm updating you on the history of "Redline", my largest build to date.
I did indeed load this behemoth into our toy hauler and take it to Airfest in 2015, at least most of it. Somehow, the nosecone got left behind, so it did not fly at that launch. It's first flight was on an M2505, but at our home field with TRA/PHX April 24th, 2016. It was a good flight to 8273 ft.
It's second flight was at LDRS, with Rocketry Organization of California, held on the Lucerne dry lake June 11th, 2016. First flight of the day as a "wake up call" on an M2000 Redline. It went up to 10,766 ft. on that flight.

After that flight I added Eggtimer WiFi switches, replacing the Shurter rotary switches. Climbing a ladder to arm my altimeters was a pain. We took it back to Airfest in 2017 and flew it on an N2000. The field was muddy, so we walked it out to the 60's with some help from our friends. The WiFi switches worked great, and it went up to 15,638 ft. on that flight. Sharon and I walked it out of the muddy field behind our campsite.

In 2018 LDRS was held in California again, hosted by Tripoli Central California. The great state of California limits high power flights to "M" motors, so we went back to the M2000 Redline for that flight, and got similar results, 10,398 ft.
Later that year, we took it back to Airfest and flew it on my favorite motor for this rocket, an N2220 Dark Matter. It took me a week to settle down after that flight. It was the most awesome visual and audio experience. Landed two miles away after flying to 11,376 ft. I had added a Featherweight GPS to the nosecone, and both it and the Eggfinder matched GPS coordinates for an easy recovery right by the road, just 100 yards past the power lines.
View attachment 506935

After a flight like that, I figured there was only one motor that could be more exciting, the O3400 Imax. So in 2019 we bought it from AMW/Pro-X and Robert DeHate helped me build it. Good thing too, because it was difficult gluing the grains and getting it all together. On September 1st, 2019 we waited all day for the clouds to clear, and around 3 PM we were cleared for launch. I couldn't get one of the WiFi switches to connect, so it flew with one altimeter on. There were six other WiFi devices detected on my phone, and five big rockets on the 80's pads ready to go, so off it went! Apogee at 21,111 ft. and another long recovery. When we recovered it, both 1515 rail buttons were gone, and the edges of the decals were folded back, despite being clear coated. Open rocket estimated it hit Mach 1.6 on that flight.
"Redline" has not been flown since that flight. In 2020, we were not able to attend Airfest due to COVID-19 restrictions. We did take it to Airfest in 2021, but most of that launch was rained out. I built an N3000 Redline that I plan to fly it on later this year.
To date, "Redline" has burned 70,952 Ns with six flights.
View attachment 506941

As always, any comments or questions are greatly appreciated. Please take some time and review this thread, it's a good read, and most questions were answered during the build.

I'm curious @Wayco, as someone who hopes to one day fly my similar rocket (Ultimate Wildman) on the O3400, what was your airframe pressure relief port and shear pin configuration (size and #) for that flight? Both for the booster and payload sections. Thanks!

 

[Wayco]

Pressure relief ports on both the payload tube and fincan were 1/4". I used three 4/40 shear pins in the nosecone and none for the fincan.

 

[DMehalko]

Pressure relief ports on both the payload tube and fincan were 1/4". I used three 4/40 shear pins in the nosecone and none for the fincan.

No sheer pins for the booster? any Reason you didn’t run the same 4-40 pins on the aft end? I ask as booster drag sep always scares me, I run pins on my boosters but maybe it’s overkill if the airframe vent holes are properly sized

 

[mtnmanak]

No sheer pins for the booster? any Reason you didn’t run the same 4-40 pins on the aft end? I ask as booster drag sep always scares me, I run pins on my boosters but maybe it’s overkill if the airframe vent holes are properly sized

I usually run all my Darkstars (including the 6" Ultimate) with no pins in the booster and have not had any incidents of drag separation. I originally drilled holes in my 6" DS for pins in the booster, but never needed them. The DS rockets are very streamlined, not a lot of booster drag.