Scary incident on the road...Live Leak video.

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d20_1445168720

Whether you ever visit the above website or not, today i found this video and, it brought back many bad memories seen from behind the windshield of cars, trucks and, even my Semi Truck.

It seems that people now days have a tendency to be more aggressive behind the wheel and, take matters into their own hands too often.

I will say that over the years that i too have had to pass someone in a no passing zone at least a few times. Say what you would like but, over the years i have been able to sense when something is a really bad situation and, i have to get around someone. They could be drunk, high, tired or even just unable to control their surroundings due to some situation ill never know.

I feel sorry for the motorcyclist whether or not anyone else does but, also i will say that TWO wrongs don't make a right. Please drive safely and, let the anger pass...you just can't take the law into your own hands no matter what your thinking or driving.

Thank-you.


SIDE RANT.

Several months ago a young man on this forum (that i know) asked in a post some questions about going to College...
As some of you know who have met me, well i opened my primitive monkey brain logic and, responded such that- "If it doesn't work out, there's always Truck Driving!"

That produced a very interesting return post from another fellow Rocketry Forum member who just happens to be a Truck Driver...hauling Nuclear waste out of a location in the Pacific Northwest.

My simple response would be:

1. Long before there was a Commercial Drivers license, i held a Class A endorsement on my drivers license.
2. Since day one i have maintained ALL the endorsements required to fill my job requirements...Meaning- Doubles/Triples, Tanker and, yes even Haz-mat.
3. I can back a set of Doubles into a dock door surrounded by two 53' vans on each side of me. Not bad for a dyslexic like me.
4. I may not have hauled Nuclear waste but, i have hauled Weapons Grade Plutonium down the highway...So many guns and, security people when you do stuff like that.
5. Whats wrong with driving a Semi Truck for a living? Why wouldn't you tell the kid about a great opportunity to (IF he finds the right employer...) to earn around, or above $100 K a year before he's 30 years old?
6. Four weeks ago i earned my second Million Mile Safe Driver award. First award at this Company since the last award came from a company that went out of business 14 years ago.
7. You would be surprised how many Truck Drivers are on this forum...No kidding. Two of US are actually Tripoli Rocketry Association TAPS...Wooooo!
8. I NEVER judge anyone by what they do for a living.

I'm sure it was just a simple misunderstanding and, a good laugh in a field somewhere between two people who just met for the first time.

Please drive safely and, ill see some of you at a launch somewhere down the road!

 

[rharshberger]

You meet some interesting people driving trucks, I happen to know a school teacher, and a retired doctor who are now truck drivers, why because they like to travel and their spouse's go with them. Its not for everyone, but we have every type on this forum. I work with more than a few drivers who are under 60 and already looking to retire as soon as they hit 59 1/2 because they made smart choices with the income they made.

Yes, I am a Teamster/truck driver, while not the individual mentioned above I also work at a nuclear waste cleanup location in the PNW hauling nuclear waste, and most people would not believe the amount of training we go through to move that nasty stuff. I can't back doubles for crap but its still fun trying.

 

[jimzcatz]

I would be the other truck driving TAP Gus mentioned. All I have to say regarding his post.... WHAT HE SAID! See ya'll at MWP. Yes, I will be in the big blue Freightliner. I don't make 100K,but been driving since '78. Where else can you get paid to drive to a launch? Nuff said.

 

[dave carver]

I would be the other truck driving TAP Gus mentioned. All I have to say regarding his post.... WHAT HE SAID! See ya'll at MWP. Yes, I will be in the big blue Freightliner. I don't make 100K,but been driving since '78. Where else can you get paid to drive to a launch? Nuff said.

...where else? Several times I logged 4 hour leases on my taxi to go to launches

 

[blackbrandt]

SIDE RANT.

Several months ago a young man on this forum (that i know) asked in a post some questions about going to College...
As some of you know who have met me, well i opened my primitive monkey brain logic and, responded such that- "If it doesn't work out, there's always Truck Driving!"

That produced a very interesting return post from another fellow Rocketry Forum member who just happens to be a Truck Driver...hauling Nuclear waste out of a location in the Pacific Northwest.

My simple response would be:

1. Long before there was a Commercial Drivers license, i held a Class A endorsement on my drivers license.
2. Since day one i have maintained ALL the endorsements required to fill my job requirements...Meaning- Doubles/Triples, Tanker and, yes even Haz-mat.
3. I can back a set of Doubles into a dock door surrounded by two 53' vans on each side of me. Not bad for a dyslexic like me.
4. I may not have hauled Nuclear waste but, i have hauled Weapons Grade Plutonium down the highway...So many guns and, security people when you do stuff like that.
5. Whats wrong with driving a Semi Truck for a living? Why wouldn't you tell the kid about a great opportunity to (IF he finds the right employer...) to earn around, or above $100 K a year before he's 30 years old?
6. Four weeks ago i earned my second Million Mile Safe Driver award. First award at this Company since the last award came from a company that went out of business 14 years ago.
7. You would be surprised how many Truck Drivers are on this forum...No kidding. Two of US are actually Tripoli Rocketry Association TAPS...Wooooo!
8. I NEVER judge anyone by what they do for a living.

I'm sure it was just a simple misunderstanding and, a good laugh in a field somewhere between two people who just met for the first time.

Please drive safely and, ill see some of you at a launch somewhere down the road!

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?124294-ACT-s-and-SAT-s

I think that would be this one

 

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

You meet some interesting people driving trucks, I happen to know a school teacher, and a retired doctor who are now truck drivers, why because they like to travel and their spouse's go with them. Its not for everyone, but we have every type on this forum.

We have more than a few drivers who left totally opposite lives at our company. My favorite earned an MBA and, still maintains his side business with his wife's help. He likes to drive his Corvette in one day, his Mercedes the next...his Hummer etc... He's also a great person to talk cars with since he's owned a boatload of fine European cars.

I'm sure someday we will meet and, shake hands and, have a good laugh and, some really great stories to talk about! Be careful out there...

I would be the other truck driving TAP Gus mentioned. All I have to say regarding his post.... WHAT HE SAID! See ya'll at MWP. Yes, I will be in the big blue Freightliner.

A "Big Blue Freightliner" huh? You mean the one i pulled out of "The Muck" at a certain Midwest based launch a year or two back with my diesel pickup? One favor please...AFTER pulling you of "The Muck" anytime soon... Pleeeeease let me come to a complete stop, THEN set your parking brake. WHY? Your realigned the frame on my truck and, my BACK! :rofl:

Your a good man Jim, you can do what a Chiropractor couldn't do!

I think that would be this one

You little rascal.:no: You have a memory like a trap! Don't worry how you stack up to others...study hard and, work hard and, no matter what you do be the best you can. You'll surprise yourself in the end.


Gus (Been to the Moon and, back FOUR times, Safely) Piepenburg-Truck Driver, Tree Farmer, Rocket Scientist...Nothing more.

 

[DRAGON64]

I read some about the motorcycle incident, and agree, we cannot take the law into our own hands... cyclists have no way to protect themselves, other than speed... which is in itself not a safe evasive action. Be safe!

When I started back into in rocketry in 1997, I was making a good living as an LTL (Less Than Truck Load) truck driver. LTL trucking differs from over the road trucking, only in that I am home every day, instead of every two weeks. Our company was bought out by another LTL company in 1999, who did not pick up the displaced former employees... I went back to school and earned two degrees, and now work as a Mechanical/Electrical Designer (with an extensive logistics and inventory management background). I have not driven professionally since 2000, yet I maintain my CDL (Class A; Doubles & Triples; Tanker), as receiving my CDL and driving the BIG RIG has always been a childhood dream of mine that I just cannot let go. Since 2008, I have driven big rig for my son's high school band, and now my daughter's band. In fact, my wife, who got her CDL license, by herself, was talking with me on this past weekends band trip, about taking to the road when the kids are gone... a dream that my wife and I have to drive as a team, sometime in the next 5 to 10 years... There is nothing else like it. When I drive for the band, my tells me that I should have seen the looks on the faces of the dads who (probably) wished they too could drive a big rig... Truly inspiring (to me) to be able to do something this special, and do it well. Here is the rig I have been driving every marching season for the last 8-years...I have one year of driving left before daughter graduates.



My wife designed the graphics for the trailer, and using my mechanical design skills and software, I designed the double decker interior of the trailer, to include interior and exterior lighting.

 

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

I read some about the motorcycle incident, and agree, we cannot take the law into our own hands... cyclists have no way to protect themselves, other than speed... which is in itself not a safe evasive action. Be safe!

When I started back into in rocketry in 1997, I was making a good living as an LTL (Less Than Truck Load) truck driver. LTL trucking differs from over the road trucking, only in that I am home every day, instead of every two weeks. Our company was bought out by another LTL company in 1999, who did not pick up the displaced former employees... I went back to school and earned two degrees, and now work as a Mechanical/Electrical Designer (with an extensive logistics and inventory management background). I have not driven professionally since 2000, yet I maintain my CDL (Class A; Doubles & Triples; Tanker), as receiving my CDL and driving the BIG RIG has always been a childhood dream of mine that I just cannot let go. Since 2008, I have driven for my son's high school band, and now my daughter's band. In fact, my wife, who got her CDL license, by herself, was talking with me on this past weekends band trip, about taking to the road when the kids are gone... a dream that my wife and I have to drive as a team, sometime in the next 5 to 10 years... There is nothing else like it. When I drive for the band, my tells me that I should have seen the looks on the faces of the dads who (probably) wished they too could drive a big rig... Truly inspiring (to me) to be able to something this special, and do it well. Here is the rig I have been driving every marching season for the last 8-years...I have one year of driving left before daughter graduates.

View attachment 274451


My wife designed the graphics for the trailer, and using my mechanical design skills and software, I designed the double decker interior of the trailer, to include interior and exterior lighting.

That is a REALLY GOOD story, DRAGON...Have seen alot of schools upgrading to Semi's to carry their equipment around and, wondered how they found the drivers sometimes! Be careful out there...

 

[DRAGON64]

That is a REALLY GOOD story, DRAGON...Have seen alot of schools upgrading to Semi's to carry their equipment around and, wondered how they found the drivers sometimes! Be careful out there...

I have been lucky that I have been available for every trip, as they have been unsuccessful in finding me a relief driver (in case I was ever sick or unable to drive)... Sadly, next year is my last to drive for the band... I will miss it, it has been an awesome experience.

 

[K'Tesh]

In watching the video, and hearing the guy admitting what he did, I'd say that's attempted vehicular homicide!

[EDIT]Didn't realize that there were two people on the motorcycle! That driver should go away for a VERY LONG time.

 

[blackbrandt]

You little rascal.:no: You have a memory like a trap! Don't worry how you stack up to others...study hard and, work hard and, no matter what you do be the best you can. You'll surprise yourself in the end.


Gus (Been to the Moon and, back FOUR times, Safely) Piepenburg-Truck Driver, Tree Farmer, Rocket Scientist...Nothing more.

Hey... the next time I took the ACT after that thread, I pulled 3 out of 4 of my scores to a 33. (We're not going to talk about my 18 I got in reading comprehension).

And yes, a truck driving career has crossed my mind a few times. Even as a "help pay for college" job.

 

[iqsy59]

This seems no different to me than shooting someone for driving slow in the passing lane. That is a traffic violation as well. On second thought, maybe it's worse...slow in the passing lane puts everyone behind them at risk.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[CORZERO]

No tough guy responses up their so I guess I'll be "that guy":

Put my beloved family member in the ICU like that and I will pack you into your own suitcase for a one way trip to the Seventh Circle.

I feel better now.

 

[boatgeek]

8. I NEVER judge anyone by what they do for a living.

I still quote my civil engineering prof from 20 years ago when he said that we needed to remember as a new degreed Civ E that we were going to be the lowest paid person on the job site, and that included the guy holding the broom. And we needed to treat everyone there with respect. It sure beats the intern we had who thought he was going to make $120K right out of school, double that in five years when he got his professional engineer license, and triple after 10 years. I don't know who was smoking what when he came up with that.

Anyway, I know that the guy in blue coveralls is a lot better judge of what can be built and how to build it easier/cheaper than me with my cushy desk job.

 

[K'Tesh]

No tough guy responses up their so I guess I'll be "that guy":

Put my beloved family member in the ICU like that and I will pack you into your own suitcase for a one way trip to the Seventh Circle.

I feel better now.

My first thought upon hearing the driver's response was something very similar, but I'd be more inclined to send him on a tour... (of the bottom of the largest local body of water).

 

[10fttall]

I feel sorry for the motorcyclist whether or not anyone else does but, also i will say that TWO wrongs don't make a right.

I feel sorry for him to a certain extent, more so for the passenger. From his actions, it's clear this wasn't his first time acting ignorant on a bike. I'd wouldn't be surprised if he pulled d-bag moves on his bike on a regular basis. The old guy was definitely wrong (and seemed a little mentally off) I see it a little different than most of you. In spite of the result, it looks like he was edging left to block the guy from doing his arrogant passing maneuver. The biker seemed to have plenty of time to realize this guy was moving to obstruct, and I think his mistake #2 was continuing and not falling back in into the right lane.

Even though the old guy was a big jerk too, I would say the lesson is that there are people like that out there on the road, and if you act like that, mess with the bull long enough, you might get the horns.

And I won't lie: if it was just the guy on the bike and he popped right up like that after the fall; I would have thought it was pretty darn funny.

 

[Marc_G]

I watched the video.

If the guy indeed swerved with intent to impact the biker, that's a serious crime. From his somewhat incoherent responses ("I don't care") I don't have much sympathy for him. But, maybe the reality is he swerved to avoid a possum or something and it was just bad luck that the motorcycle driver was committing a moving violation at the same time and was in the codger's blind spot at the time he had to swerve to avoid the critter.

I expect:
1. The guy won't be convicted of anything. There's no evidence he did anything intentional that couldn't be explained away (the "critter defense").
2. The biker was clearly committing a moving violation, several in fact. I expect (and would hope) he will be charged.
3. Any damage to the old guy's car will be paid by the biker's insurance.

Is it even clear that there was an impact? I only watched a few times, and couldn't tell if the biker swerved to avoid the swerving car, or rear-ended the swerving car, or hit the rear left quarter panel of the swerving car.

It boils down to one of two scenarios:
1. Either it was accidental bad timing with no bad intent from the old guy. Or:
2. The biker created a hazardous situation that lead to the collision.

My heart goes out to the passenger.

Marc

 

[mkadams001]

Here is a news story about this for those who are interested: https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Video-Shows-Vehicle-Veering-Into-Motorcycle-2-Hurt-333944001.html

 

[K'Tesh]

I'd love to see what a lie detector test would say about "that stinging sensation" the driver (crum) says he had. This is not an accident. It is a collision, and it wasn't something that was unavoidable (they rarely are).

https://crashnotaccident.com/

 

[burkefj]

That's unfortunate for all involved. Whatever turns out the guy in the car did or didn't do, the biker took a risk, and took one with a passenger. I rode for many years. Any time you ride you take a risk, any time you pass you take a risk, doing an illegal pass is a bigger risk, especially passing two cars at once, and with a passenger is not cool.

I think the guy in the car is a jerk and may have done it on purpose, but the biker should not have been there. Lane splitting is another risky thing I would never do, but I don't live in LA....

Frank

 

[mkadams001]

That's unfortunate for all involved. Whatever turns out the guy in the car did or didn't do, the biker took a risk, and took one with a passenger. I rode for many years. Any time you ride you take a risk, any time you pass you take a risk, doing an illegal pass is a bigger risk, especially passing two cars at once, and with a passenger is not cool.

I think the guy in the car is a jerk and may have done it on purpose, but the biker should not have been there. Lane splitting is another risky thing I would never do, but I don't live in LA....

Frank

I have seen a lot of videos of bikes and close calls/accidents. The majority have been bikers being stupid and taking chances.

I used to ride in California and I was never comfortable splitting lanes.

 

[Zebedee]

Firstly - I disagree with those folk characterizing the motorcyclist's maneuver as a "dick move" or even risky. There was a clear, straight section of road ahead with no oncoming traffic and a very large gap to land in after the overtake. Yes, it was on a double yellow and therefore illegal but it was not inherently risky for a suitable motorcycle compared to a car in the same situation. Motorcycles are capable of doing things quickly and safely that one would not even consider in a car.

Secondly, based on my experience (and supported by this video) it is usually much less risky for a bike to be in front of cars than behind them (unless the guy you try to pass tries to knock you off). Having watched this several times and paused often - what I saw was a rider making swift but safe progress past a line of traffic only to be side swiped with no warning and no sane reason.

Lastly, I completely disagree that the rider had time to change line or even brake in time to avoid the sudden movement of the car.

I've ridden a lot, often in heavy traffic, bad conditions etc., and I've seen, in person, many riders be complete a-holes on the road. When I've had the opportunity, I've called them on their behavior since they make a bad name for the rest of us and are the reason behind the kind of negative comments seen in this thread. However, it's clear to me that some folk commenting here have no riding experience and seem to harbor resentment against bikers in general which is coloring their view of this incident and leading them to start putting blame on the biker for an incident which was solely caused by the car driver.

 

[RocketFeller]

Two counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon is a pretty serious charge. He deserves it from what I could see.

 

[mpitfield]

Firstly - I disagree with those folk characterizing the motorcyclist's maneuver as a "dick move" or even risky. There was a clear, straight section of road ahead with no oncoming traffic and a very large gap to land in after the overtake. Yes, it was on a double yellow and therefore illegal but it was not inherently risky for a suitable motorcycle compared to a car in the same situation. Motorcycles are capable of doing things quickly and safely that one would not even consider in a car.

Secondly, based on my experience (and supported by this video) it is usually much less risky for a bike to be in front of cars than behind them (unless the guy you try to pass tries to knock you off). Having watched this several times and paused often - what I saw was a rider making swift but safe progress past a line of traffic only to be side swiped with no warning and no sane reason.

Lastly, I completely disagree that the rider had time to change line or even brake in time to avoid the sudden movement of the car.

What Zededee said. The driver is clearly in the wrong, wrong not only in the legal sense but wrong in his unmeasured response to what he clearly has an issue with. I can only hope the judge shows the same sense of unrestrained judgement.

 

[mkadams001]

@zebedee - So the double yellow line means if there is less risk it's ok to pass? Is it make up the rules as you go? And, your going to rely on speed to reduce the risk?

Where is the front of the line of cars? Motorcycles are only safe leading?

I think that your first two statements just don't add up. A motorcycle has to integrate with traffic.

 

[vance2loud]

Mkadams001 - I believe that zebedee and many other motorcyclists aren't saying that the biker was in the right. He was clearly breaking the law. No question about that.
The issue is whether that gives someone the right to attempt to murder or seriously harm another person because they don't like their driving.

 

[H_Rocket]

I routinely see cyclists doing inherently risky things on the premise that they are small enough / agile enough to "safely do it". I constantly see the "share the road" stickers and the "watch out for motorcycles" decals. As an avid bicyle rider I am very much in tune with that. What the cyclist was doing makes a rational and careful driver's responsibility that much more difficult. I have to not only be aware of cyclists who are safely traveling, I also have to look out for idiots who think the rules do not apply to them and are in places they should not be.

For the record, the driver in the car is a jackass that was so far in the wrong I can't fathom it.

 

[mkadams001]

Two people broke the law. Two people did something stupid. If one of those two people made a good decision there would not have been an accident.

I just don't think that since I am a biker I can take on a special attitude and do what I want on the road.

 

[iqsy59]

Cyclist crosses double yellow line to pass a vehicle that appears to driving under the speed limit on an open road.

Driver crosses double yellow line to endanger or kill cyclist.

Who is in the wrong here? Many say both, but how many of us break local traffic laws on a daily basis. A few miles over the speed limit... Running a yellow light ... Rolling through a stop sign when no other vehicle present... And my personal irritation, driving slow in the passing lane?

It doesn't matter whether someone uses a gun or a vehicle, reckless endangerment or even attempted murder is not an acceptable response. The cyclist was not performing a dangerous maneuver until the driver tried to kill him and his passenger.

I don't currently own a motorcycle, but having more than one opinion on this particular topic is beyond my comprehension.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Marc_G]

I'm interested in the fact that the rear biker had a camera going at the time of the incident. Is this typical?

Sent back in time via Android 9.0 TimeText feature.