Scale Cruise Missile - Has anyone done it?

[eastvolt]

Just curious if anyone has done a cruise missle design for a high power rocket? Its definitely one of my favorite flying ordinances, and although technically *not* a missile, it would be a cool 1/2 or 1/3 scale project.

The hard part would be designing the intake and wings in a way so that they wouldn't affect flight, or they could be removable too. Or, maybe even a Sun guided design.

Here is a photo of the Tomahawk Cruise Missile

 

[heada]

Center the upper fins (actually wings in this case) and drop the air-foil shape. After that, it should fly just fine. (might have to add nose weight to make it stable with those small rear fins and the large forward "fins")

There are kits for smaller versions, but I haven't seen a HPR version.

-Aaron

 

[Micromeister]

No HPR versions:
Estes has had several versions of the Boeing ALCM out over the years, Quest currently has a very nice Tomahawk ALCM for sale i'm sure one could upscale. Don't have a pic of the Tomahawk as it's still in the bag.
I do have and really enjoy flying a SS-N-2 Styx Cruse missle, that i've used in some scale competitions over the years, flys on a D12.

 

[gpoehlein]

One other idea - try putting the forward wings on pivots - so that they can rotate around their longitudinal axis. If allowed to freely pivot, they will not act as forward fins and will not affect the stability of the rocket. (I think I saw this either in an Apogee newsletter or it might have been a thread here.)

 

[te_groen31]

Great !
Build 'm large, fly 'm high !



Erik.

 

[Micromeister]

Greg:
Works like a dream! I've used that method on a couple forward finned missiles. The Sidewinder is a good example. by having the forward fins pivot from their leading edge they are free to float regarless of the air stream angle. This greatly reduces the amount of nose weight required to stabilize the models. That's what i'm doing on my micro Sidewinders to launch from the 1:18th scale F-104 PMC we're working on in another thread

 

[JRThro]

No HPR versions:
Estes has had several versions of the Boeing ALCM out over the years, Quest currently has a very nice Tomahawk ALCM for sale i'm sure one could upscale. Don't have a pic of the Tomahawk as it's still in the bag.
I do have and really enjoy flying a SS-N-2 Styx Cruse missle, that i've used in some scale competitions over the years, flys on a D12.

The Tomahawk is a GLCM or SLCM, not an ALCM.
(Sorry, I was a test engineer on the Tomahawk guidance system when I worked at McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis back in the 1980's.)

I have two or three of the Quest kits but haven't built any of them yet.

 

[JRThro]

Just curious if anyone has done a cruise missle design for a high power rocket? Its definitely one of my favorite flying ordinances, and although technically *not* a missile, it would be a cool 1/2 or 1/3 scale project.

The hard part would be designing the intake and wings in a way so that they wouldn't affect flight, or they could be removable too. Or, maybe even a Sun guided design.

I suppose you could angle the wings downward slightly to compensate for their being offset from the body's centerline, so they wouldn't make the Tomahawk veer upward (in the orientation shown in your picture). Or maybe do the same with the lower two fins? Or... the drag from the air intake might counteract any drag forces from the wings and the thing might fly straight as it is. You probably would have to add weight to the nose to make the rocket stable, considering the large wings and small tail fins.

A couple of years ago I was interested in building a scale model rocket of either the original Tomahawk, which had wings that were narrower at the tip than at the root as well as having 4 tail fins, or the newer Tactical Tomahawk, which is the one in your picture. But as often happens, I got distracted and went on to something else instead.

 

[DaveCombs]

The Tomahawk is a GLCM or SLCM, not an ALCM.
(Sorry, I was a test engineer on the Tomahawk guidance system when I worked at McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis back in the 1980's.)

Someone on Wikipedia seems to think it was an ALCM. See the section called "Employment of cruise missiles". If true, it lost the competition to be an ALCM to the one we are more familiar with (the AGM-86).

 

[jraice]

If you could make a HPR Tomahawk with swivel front fins that might look real neat! From the pics it looks like it stears from the back but several rockets actually do have swiveling front fins for steering...

Also I think a surface launched tomahawk would be best... Do a CTI standard propellant on the ground then airstart a hybrid or a jet engine ... Thats how the real one worked (last I heard CTI made the P booster motor to get it up to speed).

 

[heada]

If you could make a HPR Tomahawk with swivel front fins that might look real neat! From the pics it looks like it stears from the back but several rockets actually do have swiveling front fins for steering...

Also I think a surface launched tomahawk would be best... Do a CTI standard propellant on the ground then airstart a hybrid or a jet engine ... Thats how the real one worked (last I heard CTI made the P booster motor to get it up to speed).

Something about a Pro-235 I think I remember seeing.

I've thought about air-starting a hybrid...but how do you get the huge/heavy fill tank up there with the rocket?

-Aaron

 

[jraice]

Ya I recall that but when I think tomahawk out of a ship I picture a smokier motor like white lightning, or is that just the forumula CTI uses on that load?

But ya a hybrid would be awesome! I am no expert but I'd assume you could fill, release the fill line and launch...? Probably not, again I dont know anything about hybrids... But didnt the aerotech hybrids just have a tank which is filled and placed on top? That would work but I dont know about the more common fill on the pad hybrids... Would be awesome! Especially with like a control long burn L or something...

The other option though is to use white lightning to booster and then a long burn low smoke stage like an ellis L330 or M1000, or a CTI M moon burner or my favorite, the N1100!

 

[heada]

Yes, the Aerotech hybrids could be air-started (at least I think so, never actually seen one myself) and I think Alpha Hybrids has a pre-filled tank now. Other than those, I think you'd loose too much N2O before the stage event.

I don't know the formula that CTI uses for the booster, but I'd guess its their standard propellant (why invent a new one when you already have a working version)

Boost off of a WhiteLightning load and then coast on an end-burning Warp-9. (Or boost off of a CTI standard and then coast on an end-burning VMaxx (that doesn't exist))

-Aaron

 

[kelltym88]

Something like this:

Approximately 2.5x upscale of the Quest version. 54mm motor mount. Crashed, repaired, then stolen out of my garage. I think the new AT single grain 54mm motors would have been perfect.

 

[Stymye]

the estes menace is close

 

[JRThro]

Someone on Wikipedia seems to think it was an ALCM. See the section called "Employment of cruise missiles". If true, it lost the competition to be an ALCM to the one we are more familiar with (the AGM-86).

Here's what it says in that section of the Wikipedia entry at the time that I'm posting this:
"Both Tomahawk (as AGM-109) and ALCM (AGM-86) were competing designs for the USAF ALCM nuclear tipped cruise missile to be carried by the B-52.[citation needed] The USAF adopted the AGM-86 for its bomber fleet while AGM-109 was adapted to launch from trucks and ships and adopted by the USAF and Navy."

I think it's true that the Tomahawk competed for the ALCM contract and lost to the Boeing AGM-86. But it never was an operational ALCM.

 

[Fore Check]

My brother, Big J S.A.M., did a scratch scale Tomahawk based on 2.6 (BT80) tubing with a 29mm mount. I've seen it fly a couple of times, on a G38-7FJ and an F20-4. Flies really great and looks good too!

Here's the thread he put together, including some scale data, build pics, and launch photos:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=20571

 

[kelltym88]

Don't know what happened to the pics I had posted, but here they are again:

 

[JRThro]

Don't know what happened to the pics I had posted, but here they are again:

They still show up in post #14, from where I'm sitting.

That's a nice looking rocket!

 

[JRThro]

My brother, Big J S.A.M., did a scratch scale Tomahawk based on 2.6 (BT80) tubing with a 29mm mount. I've seen it fly a couple of times, on a G38-7FJ and an F20-4. Flies really great and looks good too!

Here's the thread he put together, including some scale data, build pics, and launch photos:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=20571

Looks great!

 

[Chicagonative17]

If you do the search button and look for a thread I started about the same thing, you will find some rocsim files for you to download. I think the best one is further into the thread.

I haven't built it, but its definately on my to do list.

 

[Robert Davidson]

There was a guy in New Zealand a few years back. He tried to produce a Backyard Cruise Missle. The local goverment stepped in and shut him down. I think the site may still have partial material listing and photos.

https://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/

also try here:

https://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/diary.shtml

Good Luck.

 

[ben]

Something like this:

Approximately 2.5x upscale of the Quest version. 54mm motor mount. Crashed, repaired, then stolen out of my garage. I think the new AT single grain 54mm motors would have been perfect.

ever find it?

Ben

 

[kelltym88]

ever find it?

Ben

Nope. That's not all they took. 6 rockets in all. I've scoured the neighborhood. The cops just laughed. maybe someday they'll be out in yard sale, otherwise I just count'em as gone. Punks!!

 

[jraice]

Thats to bad Kelltym! I think I saw your bird fly at LDRS, the one in your avatar... Guess that wasnt stolen ... I was going to do the same thing but then decided to build the K-50 Interceptor in 4"... That will be my winter project, even though its a different bird your rocket is what inspiried me!

 

[Art Upton]

No HPR versions:

This semi scale was first flown at LDRS 23 in 2004

https://www.shop.rocketsbymelissa.com/product.sc?categoryId=16&productId=154

 

[Art Upton]

Something about a Pro-235 I think I remember seeing.

I've thought about air-starting a hybrid...but how do you get the huge/heavy fill tank up there with the rocket?

-Aaron

You fill it on the ground while preping and use a pryo based burst disk/valve to use to air start it.