Rockets exceeding 37 km (121 kft)

SilicdyneTRF
The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Wait.......so this person wants to collect "200cc of air" from 37km up.

How are they going to get 200cc's of air into a cylinder that is 1.6"ID x 5"L (10in^3 ~ 168cc's) from an altitude where the density of the surrounding air is around 0.0045kg/m^3......essentially zero density??? Is there a pump that is going to run for hours on end at that altitude to fill that cylinder to 1.5psia from an environment that is at [0.045psia] essentially vacuum??

Where are these people coming from!??!?!

MOD's, can we get an IP check here? This makes no sense....
 
jwhunter said:
Dear Justin,
By the time I am fully politically correct to your high standards and do "everything right" and disclose my number of marriages, provide my 2005 tax returns etc. the project will be over.

Good luck with your excellent job as a professional critic.

Dr. John Hunter
CTO for Green Launch
Click to expand...
Hey question, not to be critical, Dr. John Hunter, CTO of GL. Your signature here states your title is CTO, but the GL website refers to COO and CSO, so which is it, or is it all 3? Or does GL leadership kinda make shti up as they go? Asking for a redneck friend of mine who make's solid S motors in his garage...
 
Id this is indeed Spam, report the thread. I am out of the loop do to an electrical outage and cannot read the entire thread.
 
StreuB1 said:
Wait.......so this person wants to collect "200cc of air" from 37km up.

How are they going to get 200cc's of air into a cylinder that is 1.6"ID x 5"L (10in^3 ~ 168cc's) from an altitude where the density of the surrounding air is around 0.0045kg/m^3......essentially zero density??? Is there a pump that is going to run for hours on end at that altitude to fill that cylinder to 1.5psia from an environment that is at [0.045psia] essentially vacuum??

Where are these people coming from!??!?!

MOD's, can we get an IP check here? This makes no sense....
Click to expand...
Perhaps the ~200cc at low density is enough for the doctoral candidate and UCSD? I can confirm that this team and project is real. Why the hostility and cynicism?
 
jderimig said:
Perhaps the ~200cc at low density is enough for the doctoral candidate and UCSD? I can confirm that this team and project is real. Why the hostility and cynicism?
Click to expand...

I think it is how prevalent fraud has become these days that when something seemingly out of the ordinary happens, especially in a regulated hobby like ours. Some of us put up our guard. I will admit, I am very prone to doing this. Right or wrong, and knowing I do it, its hard to put it aside at times. Love of the sport, John and nearly 30 years in it I guess. :-\

EDIT: No wait.....OVER 30 years now. Wow....
 
StreuB1 said:
I think it is how prevalent fraud has become these days that when something seemingly out of the ordinary happens, especially in a regulated hobby like ours. Some of us put up our guard. I will admit, I am very prone to doing this. Right or wrong, and knowing I do it, its hard to put it aside at times. Love of the sport, John and nearly 30 years in it I guess. :-\

EDIT: No wait.....OVER 30 years now. Wow....
Click to expand...
Yes true and guilty too. I have to admit the original post might have triggered my BS detector if I didn't have prior knowledge of this effort. Give Dr. Hunter a chance....This community has alot to offer.
 
My Master’s thesis was on the software for a “robotic air sampler” some thirty years ago. Someone else had designed and constructed the sampler. It gravity fed hypodermic syringes from a hopper into an open sided cylinder. The cylinder would rotate the plunger of the syringe into a fork which would then retract the syringe over a user configured period of time. Once the syringe was fully retracted a solenoid would place a cap over the nozzle, sealing the sample inside. Then the cylinder would rotate again and eject the syringe, while feeding another.
The robotic air sampler and its software were requested by the Environmental Engineering department of the college I attended. Reading the technical portions of this thread brought back some fond memories.
 
StreuB1 said:
I think it is how prevalent fraud has become these days that when something seemingly out of the ordinary happens, especially in a regulated hobby like ours. Some of us put up our guard. I will admit, I am very prone to doing this. Right or wrong, and knowing I do it, its hard to put it aside at times. Love of the sport, John and nearly 30 years in it I guess. :-\

EDIT: No wait.....OVER 30 years now. Wow....
Click to expand...
Hi StreuB1,

The 200 cc of air refers to the air at 37 km.

John Hunter
 
Steve Shannon said:
My Master’s thesis was on the software for a “robotic air sampler” some thirty years ago. Someone else had designed and constructed the sampler. It gravity fed hypodermic syringes from a hopper into an open sided cylinder. The cylinder would rotate the plunger of the syringe into a fork which would then retract the syringe over a user configured period of time. Once the syringe was fully retracted a solenoid would place a cap over the nozzle, sealing the sample inside. Then the cylinder would rotate again and eject the syringe, while feeding another.
The robotic air sampler and its software were requested by the Environmental Engineering department of the college I attended. Reading the technical portions of this thread brought back some fond memories.
Click to expand...
Hi Steve,

That sounds right.
We are using a similar gizmo.

John Hunter
 
jderimig said:
Yes true and guilty too. I have to admit the original post might have triggered my BS detector if I didn't have prior knowledge of this effort. Give Dr. Hunter a chance....This community has alot to offer.
Click to expand...
Hi jderimig,

Thanks for the kind words. Don't worry about the occaisional territorial nuts with time on their hands.
They are in every field.

Best.

John Hunter
 
I'll also confirm that John is legit, the doctoral student is real, and that John is just trying to help the scientists after Murphy prevented Green Launch from collecting a sample for them earlier this year. When John asked who I knew in rocketry who might be able to help collect this sample, I suggested to him to post in this forum. I was not expecting this level of cynicism in the responses, but I hope that a match can be made anyway.
 
Adrian A said:
I'll also confirm that John is legit, the doctoral student is real, and that John is just trying to help the scientists after Murphy prevented Green Launch from collecting a sample for them earlier this year. When John asked who I knew in rocketry who might be able to help collect this sample, I suggested to him to post in this forum. I was not expecting this level of cynicism in the responses, but I hope that a match can be made anyway.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt that these folks are real. My problem is that, at least for me, it ruins the spirit of the forum when the CTO of a tech company comes here (and who had only been here in the past with questions specific to his commercial operation) with a low effort post asking for work "in the name of science" (to me at least, read: free). Especially when, near as I can tell from the OP and articles like below, this company couldn't fulfill some sort of paid project and when their website throws around numbers in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to complete the same types of missions he's asking us to do for free.
https://newatlas.com/space/greenlaunch-space-cannon-gas-launch/
EDIT: It also doesn't help that the OP appears to be belligerent.
 
robopup said:
I don't doubt that these folks are real. My problem is that, at least for me, it ruins the spirit of the forum when the CTO of a tech company comes here (and who had only been here in the past with questions specific to his commercial operation) with a low effort post asking for work "in the name of science" (to me at least, read: free). Especially when, near as I can tell from the OP and articles like below, this company couldn't fulfill some sort of paid project and when their website throws around numbers in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to complete the same types of missions he's asking us to do for free.
https://newatlas.com/space/greenlaunch-space-cannon-gas-launch/
EDIT: It also doesn't help that the OP appears to be somewhat belligerent.
Click to expand...
I wish I had the ability to mash "Like" on this post more. :)
 
robopup said:
I don't doubt that these folks are real. My problem is that, at least for me, it ruins the spirit of the forum when the CTO of a tech company comes here (and who had only been here in the past with questions specific to his commercial operation) with a low effort post asking for work "in the name of science" (to me at least, read: free). Especially when, near as I can tell from the OP and articles like below, this company couldn't fulfill some sort of paid project and when their website throws around numbers in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to complete the same types of missions he's asking us to do for free.
https://newatlas.com/space/greenlaunch-space-cannon-gas-launch/
EDIT: It also doesn't help that the OP appears to be belligerent.
Click to expand...
He wasn’t belligerent until people accused him of a scam. That would make many of us belligerent.
 
Adrian A said:
I'll also confirm that John is legit, the doctoral student is real, and that John is just trying to help the scientists after Murphy prevented Green Launch from collecting a sample for them earlier this year. When John asked who I knew in rocketry who might be able to help collect this sample, I suggested to him to post in this forum. I was not expecting this level of cynicism in the responses, but I hope that a match can be made anyway.
Click to expand...
Hi Adrian,

Thanks and don't worry about the one sourpuss (SP). I am used to this reaction when entering an arena that is ripe for exploitation by
masterminds like me. Luckily SP saw right thru my grandiose and highly disturbing scheme to exploit innocent rocket hobbyists.

As Tiny Tim said just before he was arrested and dragged off by the woke police. "God Bless us Every One"

Best.
John
 
"Rockets are expensive, complex, bad for the environment and prone to occasionally exploding"

I am just laughing at the sublime irony of this entire situation. Good luck with your search for a sucker, I hear there's one born every minute.

I have been involved in experimental aviation for many years and the number of "game changing" technologies and projects that have come along over the years would boggle your mind.

Flying cars, electric powered airplanes, electric powered flying cars, radical aerodynamics, the list goes on and on. All failures, woops, I mean success is just around the corner...:rolleyes:

Yes, I am cynical. Sorry about that.

The best way to silence cynics and critics is to succeed.
 
As noted above by StreuB1, unless there is a reason they have to use a rocket to collect the sample, a high altitude balloon would stay at altitude much longer, and it would be much easier and far less expensive than a rocket. I’ve been doing HABs for some time, so if you’d like additional info, let me know.
 
I think that it would definitely be possible for an experienced amateur group to loft the sampling apparatus to the necessary altitude. But that would need to be a rocket built from the ground up to carry scientific equipment. Every high performance rocket in the hobby that I'm aware of has no room for non flight critical payloads beyond maybe a few cameras, and certainly not enough for the equipment to take air samples.

Beyond the concerns of getting onto a rocket that can go high enough, there is no guarantee that it will work. High performance rockets on the leading edge of performance aren't exactly the most reliable.

A high altitude balloon is definitely the better option for safely and reliably delivering sampling apparatus to high altitudes. I don't know enough about them to say if they would be practical for getting a payload to 121k feet easily.
 
Steve Shannon said:
He wasn’t belligerent until people accused him of a scam. That would make many of us belligerent.
Click to expand...
This is a bad place to be belligerent. And the result of the belligerence was predictable. You could hear the sound of popcorn going into the US microwaves in Australia as John bit back.
Let's cover the elephant in the room. As amateur (predominantly) rocket enthusiasts, we cannot take any payment other than to cover costs for a launch. So we're not in the same playing space as a commercial launch operation. If you understand that, you'd understand why anyone might be skeptical. As this request came from a commercial launch operation, they should know the difference between the functional operational requirements in their and our operating space.
So if John wants to take a deep breath and a step back, he might get the result he wants. Otherwise, can someone send me some popcorn too.
I love you'ze all....
 
Last edited:
rfjustin said:
"The current sample is a steel cylinder 1.6" ID by about 5" long."
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/rockets-exceeding-37-km-121-kft.181090/#post-2462691
Click to expand...
The steel cylinder violates the TRA Safety Code. Unless it could be redesigned using aluminum, it would have to launch at a private site such as FAR. Another option would be to petition the TRA BOD for an exception.

The mass is also important. Most projects flying to 100Kft+ do not have extra margin for a payload.
 
jsdemar said:
The steel cylinder violates the TRA Safety Code. Unless it could be redesigned using aluminum, it would have to launch at a private site such as FAR. Another option would be to petition the TRA BOD for an exception.

The mass is also important. Most projects flying to 100Kft+ do not have extra margin for a payload.
Click to expand...
John, not to derail, but where is the line between steel mass distributed in things like quick disconnects, swivels, electrical motors/servo's, threaded rods, rebar, etc? Is the concern the ballistic coefficient of falling debris?
 

Similar threads

J
Chute needed for recovery of 20 lb dart with a vterminal of 210 fps
Replies
12
Views
980
jwhunter
J
J
Green Launch Intro
Replies
3
Views
515
samb
samb
P
For your consideration, Pat G for TRA BoD
Replies
21
Views
2K
RocketRev
RocketRev

Latest posts

Back
Top