Roachwerk's New Kit Development!

[sandman]

more if the price is not too bad.......

I have a problem with self control when it comes to scale...I'm afraid sometimes I don't know when to stop and leave it up to the modeller.

I feel guilty when "I" don't provide the detail.

I have been thinking of a "basic" kit with the basic Soyuz 19 (Apollo/Soyuz) for "$X" and a "detail kit" add on for "$Y" with the decals larger escape tower etc.

The basic kit has no decals or cast resin parts.

The detail kit has all that "stuff" plus documentation.

Any ideas?

 

[mx774]

"How complicated (ie. EXPENSIVE) do you guys want this thing.
I was thinking of 15 kits. " Sandman, I like the idea of the two kits as I would like to purchase one of each (detailed/plan). In addition c ould you offer more than 15 kits as I would like to purchase (not bugging you) at least two each (detailed and plan).

My ebay login name is the same as my TRF name: MX774. As you can check to see I don't buy your kits to make money on ebay.

Regards,

Jim H. (MX774)

 

[sandman]

OK, I guess I didn't explain it right.

By two kits I mean.

A base kit that you will need to build the model, with tubes, transitions motor mount, etc.

A seperate , but not NECESSARY, detail kit of parts with resin castings, conduits, bumps, nozzles and all the "extra" bits and pieces to make this truly "scale".

So basically if ya just want to fly it...get a basic kit, paint it like the real one and don't let enybody get within 15 feet of it to see that you left off all of the detail.

If you want to "display" or go into scale competition...get the extra detail "parts" kit.

Does that make sense.

The reasoning for the limited number is simple.

Wow, that looks to be a relatively complicated thing to build (from you perspective)...but it looks really nice.

It's gonna be a LOT of work for me to make! Plus a bazzillion dollars worth of balsa, tubes and other stuff I have to plan on buying yet!

MX774,

I think you are my best customer...I think you have at LEAST one of everything I've ever kitted!...Thanks for the support!

OK...this is still in the early planning stage...haven't bought any big piles of tubes and stuff yet!

 

[mx774]

Sandman,
The only reason I buy every kit you put out and sometimes two of each is that your kits rival Estes and Quest quality and most times better. I don't want to get black listed by Estes or Quest but I must say so far every kit I purchased from you has been rated by me and every TRF member as an excellent kit and made with the utmost care and quality.

It's obvious to me and others that you truly love this hobby.


P.S. I still love to build Estes and Quest kits and cannot wait till Estes re-introduce the Mars Lander and Interceptor. There are rumors that Quest will kit their version of their flagship rocket kit (somekind of futuristic/exotic kit).

Regards,

MX774

 

[Stymye]

the kit is different enough that it doesn't need alot of details.
I like the idea of having a choice with that

 

[BobH48]

Originally posted by stymye
the kit is different enough that it doesn't need alot of details.
I like the idea of having a choice with that

I second that thought.

I have a cardstock 13mm Soyuz and it always draws a lot of attention when I launch it and it doesn't have anything but printed details.

 

[sandman]

OK...I like the feedback I'm getting so far.

This will save me a lot of work. Most of the details are in the base anyway and can't be seen unless you turn the model upside down.

So maybe I won't even offer a "detail" parts kit. Maybe give out some web sites or this thread for any scale documentation.

How about this?

2 sets of escape towers and parts, those are pretty obvious design parts, and a decal set.


So far the escape tower is a solid wood dowel turned to 0.22"on the lathe...that won't break very easily.

 

[mx774]

Would you consider selling a detailed kit to a private person? I'm sure you'll probably build at least one detailed kit for yourself? I'd be interested in at least one detailed kit and a few plan kits?

Regards,

MX774

 

[sandman]

I'm not even sure what the "detail" kit will be yet!

I asure you I will have a detail package available...sometime.

 

[flying_silverad]

Looks real nice Sandman! If I can add my 2 cents...I think you have to think about yourself a little with this one. Heck, it just seems like alot more work to make a basic kit and then a detail kit.
I would think most folks would get the detail kit so why not just do one great detailed kit. Maybe Poll it, might save yourself a little work.

Love the progress

 

[sandman]

After rethinking the details and rereading these post I think I'll include the detail pack in the kit.

It's not that complicated really.

I will eliminate the bottom details like the 20 main engine bells and all the vernier motors.

That would require some vacuforming and I don't want to start that up.

The rest is just conduits and "bumps".

Maybe I could "farm" that part put.

Any vacuformers out there?

I could make the masters.

 

[powderburner]

Wow, that sure would be nice to have ready-made tapered tubes for those side strap-ons. But somewhere deep inside me, using all those ready-made parts seems vaguely like cheating?

Sandman, how difficult do you think it would really be to supply a template, a fwd, mid, and aft CR, a core tube, and a piece of BT large enough to lay the template on? Seems (on the surface) like it ought to be do-able by most moderately skilled rocketeers, and it would save you a LOT of time?

 

[sandman]

I am looking for "consistancy" in the booster bodies. Rolling cardstock transitions is a real PIA and is something most of us hate doing...unless we're real good at it.

Part of the problem with rolling paper transitions is the "grain" of the paper changes due to the cut and shape of the transition piece so a mandrel save a lot of heartache.

Maybe "pre-rolled and glued" tapered bodies could be an option.

The mandrel just makes it a bit easier but it's hardly "cheating".

Gee, do you want to make your own body tubes too? That's not cheating! Give yourself a break! You're too hard on yourself.

The top of the booster has a custom nose cone that it 0.89" O.D. not exactly an off the shelf item. The bottom of the booster is a BT-60.

There are also two other paper transitions above the boosters that have to be perfectly matched by the builder.

Don't worry...there will be plenty for the modeller to do on this kit.

I'm currently waiting for custom centering rings (laser cut) to complete my prototype and the first beta kits.

 

[mx774]

Sandman,
It would be nice if the kits had ready made (rolled) booster tubes or at the very least would you consider allowing me to purchase a mandrel? I've built many scale kits of various skill levels and have attempted to build the Vostok only to give up after I failed at making several decent looking boosters.

Anyway, I'm still excited...

MX774

 

[JStarStar]

Wow. This looks awesome. At the risk of piling one more project on my plate for the winter, I certainly want to be on the "waitlist" for the kits when you get ready to start putting 'em out.

I made a very rough-and-dirty Peter Alway Simplified Vostok over the summer and had a lot of fun flying it. I am still trying to figure out ways how to detail it up with the engine nozzles, etc.

Somehow, there's got to be a way to fake 'em.. i have looked at salt shakers, plastic bottle caps, you name it. Somebody somewhere in this world must make little conical-shaped thingies which could be used as glue-on engine bells.

I'd definitely want to see your "detail kit"... see if I could get it done right, make it look good.

 

[sandman]

I came up with an idea last night in bed...how about a mandrel made of foam?

Not very durable for me...but for the builder it will last long enough to make 4 identical boosters. Since it's a simple cone shape it would be easier for ME to make than to roll all 4 booster transitions.

One $8 sheet of 2" thick pink foam insulation would give me enough material for...maybe about 1,000 forms!

I got some custom made centering rings today so I can get back on the prototype build.

The builder wil have the option of putting one 18mm motor into each booster but...what to do with the ejection charge?

 

[TheRadiator]

Originally posted by sandman
I came up with an idea last night in bed...how about a mandrel made of foam?

Not very durable for me...but for the builder it will last long enough to make 4 identical boosters. Since it's a simple cone shape it would be easier for ME to make than to roll all 4 booster transitions.

One $8 sheet of 2" thick pink foam insulation would give me enough material for...maybe about 1,000 forms!

I got some custom made centering rings today so I can get back on the prototype build.

The builder wil have the option of putting one 18mm motor into each booster but...what to do with the ejection charge?

A foam mandrel is ok to roll transistions, I can dig it. But if you can make 1000 forms, how about including an extra form in case some clutz like me breaks the first one?

18 mil booster ejection charges...................... give me a couple of days, I *think* I have an idea but I want to try it before I suggest anything.

 

[Stymye]

Somebody somewhere in this world must make little conical-shaped thingies which could be used as glue-on engine bells

If the scale is close enough you can use cut off golf tee's,
I used them for the escape nozzles on my big little joe.

 

[Bill]

Originally posted by sandman

The builder wil have the option of putting one 18mm motor into each booster but...what to do with the ejection charge?

Two possibilities I can think of:

A) For realism, blow the nose off of each booster, allowing it to fall off for separate recovery on a streamer.

B) Cut a slot in the motor mount tube ahead of the engine block. Glue a similarly slotted BT-5 parallel to the MMT slot to slot. Plug the forward ends of both tubes. Vent the gasses out the back like a Gemini DC.


Bill

 

[sandman]

I've thought of those two possible ways to "dispose" of the ejection charges.

One possible scenario, all the booster nose cones are firmly glued to the main body but the boosters themselves are held on my two wood dowel "hooks" on two launch lugs each. Upon ejection all four booster are recovered my seperate streamers.

Second scenario, nose cones are firmly glued to the main body, boosters are held on by the double launch lugs but...at ejection there is a shock cord attaching the booster to the main body and they just pop free and come down with the main rocket.

The second scenario required a long delay like a C6-7 so that the ejection comes well after the main nose cone seperates.

See this is why we make a "prototype"!

The "boosters" will be "active" on the second prototype. I don't like that one at all!

The first prototype is to see if the basic model flys correctly!

last resort...I won't tell...it's a violation of the NAR engine code.

 

[BobH48]

You could always put 13mm motors in the boosters.

Then you could use A10-PT engines that have no ejection charge.

Just a thought.

 

[Gus]

Sandman,

Try this. No centering rings for the strapons. Instead, centering struts, longer than the motor mount tube, attached at the top to a bulkhead.

Provides a very rigid frame for the strapons.

Vents the gasses back along the outside of the mmt.

 

[TheRadiator]

Is there enough space to reroute the ejection charge out of the back of the CRs? I'm attempting to shape a ceramic manifold. Gonna try to build, test, pass or fail should be done by the end of the week. Testing it out on a Fat Boy with external boosters.

 

[DumasBro2]

Why not use a booster motor w/o and ejection charge or are dropping the boosters a must?

steve

 

[sandman]

I got the laser cut rings and well, the prototype is almost finished.

I may put some detail on it...well maybe at least a coat of primer anyway.

I still have to put those tiny fins on yet.

Talk about an alignment nightmare!!!

Those boosters are nothing like aligning fins!

I have to work on that part so the builder can get it a bit more easily. I've come up with a few things to make alignment easier. Those will me implemented on prototype #2

Here is #1

 

[bsexton]

Looking good!!!

 

[dtomko]

I'm catching up on this thread late! Wow! Another beautiful job, Sandman!
As far as decals go, the boosters have a good number of stencils all over them (in Cyrilic, of course) New Ware has a set for 1/144 scale:
https://mek.kosmo.cz/newware/nwd008.htm
For the color, most, if not all, Soviet/Russian boosters are a green/gray color, actually more gray then olive drab; many Soyuz launchers have red at the bottoms of the strap ons. The white on the boosters is almost certainly frost. There is often white and red on the second stage and capsule shroud.
Drew Tomko

 

[DumasBro2]

That data I have calls the color "Navy Gray". Thr Red is listed as Orange. There is also an orange band just above the truss section and then from there forward is white. Any white on the boosters would be frost as Drew mentioned.


steve

 

[dtomko]

Steve is right. Charles Vick suggets that Testor's "Russian Underside Gray" is a very close match for the booster color. The orange color is, I believe, something like International Orange, a reddish orange. Go here:
https://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/models/html_pix/vmsoyuz.html
for photos of Vincent Meens' beautiful Soyuz; although he has white on the first stage and strap ons, I don't believe that is correct.

Drew

 

[sandman]

Thanks guys,

I will try to give a listing of various rounds in the documentation on this kit and am looking into some other strencil decals in cyrillc for Astronboy to make up for me.

It's progressing but I have no timeline on the release yet.

Or price!

The model should fly really well on an Estes E9-5 motor but I'm still waiting to do some flight testing on the boosters.

Carl from SEMROC seems to think that regular C6-0 boosters plugged with a wad of aluminum foil and taped real well into the boosters should work..seems like it would.

The foil should protect the booster motor tubes and not violate any NAR rules.