Rattle Can Rustoleum help

[Walldiver7]

So,.. I've recently discovered that I am not a paint expert, ...

Two issues:

1. Even after maintaining a dust free paint environment AND shaking the ssip out of the can, I still have stuff (lint/hair looking stuff) in the final paint-coat finish. Can this be polished out, AND how is paint polishing done anyway?

My paint process is simple: Primer, wet sand (800 g), 1st color coat, wet sand, then final color coat. I'm about to attempt my first clear coat over this final color coat, but am waiting to find out about polishing the color coat first. (for FG rocket tubes)

2. I think I've noticed that if I spray another color coat, over a still-wet rustoleum coat, that as it dries "crinkles" develop. Crinkles: it looks as if a microscopic mountain range is trying to push up through the top coat from below. I assume that this is a result of the bottom coat trying to dry while being covered by the top layer. I would appreciate a real explanation about this from you paint experts.

Thanks for the help!

 

[WoShuGui]

Not a paint expert myself, but I can say Rustoleum in particular does not play nice with other paints if it is not fully cured between layers. I even gotten crinkling putting Rustoluem 2x over it's own primer! At $3 a can, I suppose you can't expect much. On the lint issue, what it seems to be for me is lighter coats not wetting. This leaves a covering of paint dust on the surface. To get this smoothed, I have used red auto rubbing compound, followed by white polishing compound and a final coat of auto wax. Be sure your paint is fully cured before starting. I'd recommend at least 48 hrs, but if you still smell volatile compounds, give it more time.

 

[mikec]

My paint process is simple: Primer, wet sand (800 g), 1st color coat, wet sand, then final color coat. I'm about to attempt my first clear coat over this final color coat... I think I've noticed that if I spray another color coat, over a still-wet rustoleum coat, that as it dries I get "crinkles"

I've found that Rusto 2x sometimes crinkles over itself after more than a week of drying on the first coat. So my process is primer, wait 24 hours, and color in no more than 30 minutes. I've never clear-coated for fear that it would trash the finish; I use Future instead. YMMV.

For me, painting seems to be a matter of luck. Of course, my rockets are usually scratched up after the first flight anyway.

 

[Walldiver7]

Not a paint expert myself, but I can say Rustoleum in particular does not play nice with other paints if it is not fully cured between layers. I even gotten crinkling putting Rustoluem 2x over it's own primer! At $3 a can, I suppose you can't expect much. On the lint issue, what it seems to be for me is lighter coats not wetting. This leaves a covering of paint dust on the surface. To get this smoothed, I have used red auto rubbing compound, followed by white polishing compound and a final coat of auto wax. Be sure your paint is fully cured before starting. I'd recommend at least 48 hrs, but if you still smell volatile compounds, give it more time.

I let the primer dry for no less than 24 hours before doing anything with it. I normally allow a color coat to go 48 hours before doing anthing to it. Thanks for the reminder about light coats! I think I may have slipped back into the habit on applying heavier coats.... I think I've seen the red auto rubbing compound at Walmart, but don't know that I've ever seen the white. Thanks!

 

[Tiger]

Use a tack cloth and try to paint in a dust free environment as possible. Set it up horizontally to dry (hopefully you painted it that way as well) somewhere dust free. Sometimes though the can still wants to sort of just "spittle", for me this seems to be one of a few things. Either the nozzle is partially clogged, I'm holding the can too far away and the paint is half dried by the time it lands on the rocket, the can isn't shaken up enough and/or near the bottom of the can. If it's meant to be the top final coat I'll just quit using that can, get another one, and screw with it later. I generally hold the can much closer than the instructions say you should if I'm trying to get a nice final gloss coat, just keep the can moving at all times to avoid a buildup that can run or sag. I keep the rocket horizontal and constantly spin it as much as possible while it dries to avoid this. I'm still experimenting with doing final polishing steps myself so I'll let someone else speak to that issue. I paint outside where it's very humid, but take it inside in my empty guest room where it can dry undisturbed in the drier air conditioning. It's quite humid on the ocean front here.

Crinkling is caused when a layer of paint dries at a different rate from a layer below it. The paint layers dry and shrink at different rates, pulling on each other in different directions. This is why you can never let paint dry for too long before adding another coat, if the bottom layer is 100% dry you vastly decrease the chances of this happening. But it's still very possible to let a layer dry 100% and then even then get crinkling on top of it by improper painting techniques. In fact, I think this is more often the culprit than mixing paint brands.

If you're putting on a thick coat and wait just a minute or two and then go back with a couple light sprays looking for spots you missed, you're taking a risk that if the surface on the current coat has dried just enough the next few sprays won't soak into your current coat and will instead form a super thin light coat over your current coat which is still very much wet inside and you will start to immediately see the crinkles appear. The paint decided for you that you should have been done and stopped, but you kept going. The top super light coat is drying almost immediately pulling apart the heavy layer below. Now you have to wait extra extra long for the whole think to dry all the way through and rough sand it all back down and try again.

I struggle with this myself at times, it's so tempting to go back and hit a spot you missed during the same painting session..

 

[Walldiver7]

Thanks for the detail in your response! It was helpful. I live in New Mexico where it's very rare to see humidity over 40%. The humidity while I was painting this last project was 24% (Temp. was 56f). Thanks for the tip on getting a little closer with the can. I probably won't sand this one down and start over; it was just two spots (about the size of a dime) where I had "crinkling" (is that a real paint term.. I just threw that out there for a lack of a better description!) I'm going to work on polishing it and see how that turns out. I do want to shoot a clear coat over it when I'm finished.. hope that goes well.

Use a tack cloth and try to paint in a dust free environment as possible. Set it up horizontally to dry (hopefully you painted it that way as well) somewhere dust free. Sometimes though the can still wants to sort of just "spittle", for me this seems to be one of a few things. Either the nozzle is partially clogged, I'm holding the can too far away and the paint is half dried by the time it lands on the rocket, the can isn't shaken up enough and/or near the bottom of the can. If it's meant to be the top final coat I'll just quit using that can, get another one, and screw with it later. I generally hold the can much closer than the instructions say you should if I'm trying to get a nice final gloss coat, just keep the can moving at all times to avoid a buildup that can run or sag. I keep the rocket horizontal and constantly spin it as much as possible while it dries to avoid this. I'm still experimenting with doing final polishing steps myself so I'll let someone else speak to that issue. I paint outside where it's very humid, but take it inside in my empty guest room where it can dry undisturbed in the drier air conditioning. It's quite humid on the ocean front here.

Crinkling is caused when a layer of paint dries at a different rate from a layer below it. The paint layers dry and shrink at different rates, pulling on each other in different directions. This is why you can never let paint dry for too long before adding another coat, if the bottom layer is 100% dry you vastly decrease the chances of this happening. But it's still very possible to let a layer dry 100% and then even then get crinkling on top of it by improper painting techniques. In fact, I think this is more often the culprit than mixing paint brands.

If you're putting on a thick coat and wait just a minute or two and then go back with a couple light sprays looking for spots you missed, you're taking a risk that if the surface on the current coat has dried just enough the next few sprays won't soak into your current coat and will instead form a super thin light coat over your current coat which is still very much wet inside and you will start to immediately see the crinkles appear. The paint decided for you that you should have been done and stopped, but you kept going. The top super light coat is drying almost immediately pulling apart the heavy layer below. Now you have to wait extra extra long for the whole think to dry all the way through and rough sand it all back down and try again.

I struggle with this myself at times, it's so tempting to go back and hit a spot you missed during the same painting session..

 

[JohnCoker]

I had this problem too, in my previous shop. The paint booth was inside the shop itself so the fan would suck all the dust from the shop onto what I was trying to paint!

What I realized is that the make-up air needs to be filtered. So, when I built my current shop, I put the paint booth in its own room with a door to the outside. In addition, I made an inner door out of furnace filters to filter air coming in from outside. When painting, I leave the outer (real) door open and close the inner (filter) door.

 

[Walldiver7]

Yep, I've been right down that path too and I wound up filtering outside air. In the warmer months this works just fine for me, but as winter approaches and the incoming air drops below 50f I will need find a different solution.
I've paid attention to most details under my control, but it now might be time to experiment with different brands of paint. I haven't tried Dupli-color (?) yet, so that might be next. Thanks for the reply!

I had this problem too, in my previous shop. The paint booth was inside the shop itself so the fan would suck all the dust from the shop onto what I was trying to paint!

What I realized is that the make-up air needs to be filtered. So, when I built my current shop, I put the paint booth in its own room with a door to the outside. In addition, I made an inner door out of furnace filters to filter air coming in from outside. When painting, I leave the outer (real) door open and close the inner (filter) door.

View attachment 154284

 

[hpreric]

I've never used the Rustoleum 2X, just the regular Rustoleum paint. I hang my rockets vertically and paint around them. Even though it's a fairly dusty environment, I don't have a problem getting trash into the paint. I also follow the instructions to the T. I believe it's 30 minutes between coats (could be different, I don't have a can in front of me) or wait 24 hours. Although I don't get a museum quality finish, I get a reasonable amount of gloss on my rockets. The better I prep, the better the finish. I also don't try to put a heavy coat on at each shoot-I use just enough to see a wet surface. It usually takes three coats of paint for complete coverage.

 

[JohnCoker]

I've paid attention to most details under my control, but it now might be time to experiment with different brands of paint.

I'd be surprised if it was the brand of paint, but I get good results with Krylon.

 

[Tiger]

I agree, it's easy to blame the brand of paint instead of your own bad habits.

Oh and John, your new video is top notch, I aspire to have your skills. Now I really can't wait to get my Nike Smoke in from Frys!

 

[Walldiver7]

I agree, it is easier to blame something.. .. anything, but one's inability to lay down nice paint. For years I used Krylon but switched to regular (not 2x) just to see if there was something better. From my experiences so far, I would say Rusto is a bit more fussy to deal with. Hpreric, I paint with tubes horizontally positioned and I do follow the directions carefully too. That's why I sent up a flare, here, these re-coat directions don't seem to work for me. I'm wondering if my lower humidity here is part of the problem.

 

[himitsu]

For years I used Krylon but switched to regular (not 2x) just to see if there was something better.

So you're not using 2x. Just curious, did this crazing happen with red Rustoleum paint?

 

[Walldiver7]

So you're not using 2x. Just curious, did this crazing happen with red Rustoleum paint?

Correct, I am using the regular Rust-o cans. Crazing has happened with both red and blue. For me, the crazing was worse with the red. Thanks for letting me in on the correct paint terminology.

 

[himitsu]

Rustoleum is a little strange. I paint with Rustoleum (not 2x), and you can't switch colors quickly (not like you can with Krylon). Also, Rustoleum's recoat and dry times are not intuitive.

It's fully dry in 24 hours.
You can recoat within an hour, or after 48 hours.

Did you catch that? You can not recoat after 24 hours (even though it's fully dry). You must wait at least 48 hours.

Rustoleum drys sooner than it cures. In fact, I'm convinced that it sometimes takes longer to cure than 48 hours (even though it's dry). One time, I applied gloss red over gloss white, and the red crazed even though the gloss white had cured for two weeks! I went to the Internet for some answers.

According to some enamel paint trouble-shooting guides: one cause of crazing is that the paint surface (not the air, or the paint) is too cold. That, however, is not the most popular reason for crazing. The most popular is that the old paint is not fully cured, and becomes "attacked" by the solvents in the new paint (causing the old paint to shift and create a vinyl-like texture). The solution (mitigation, really) is to always use very light "mist" coats when applying a second top coat (to keep the first top coat from becoming overwhelmed by solvents).

So, always wait more than 48 hours, before applying a color-change coat. Then always apply the color-change coat using very light "mist" coats. Make sure you finish up within an hours time.

I still prefer Rustoleum over Krylon, because I have to paint outside. I originally used Krylon, but ran into trouble because of the shifting winds. Krylon drys so quickly, that if the winds change during application, you could end up with a "dusty" finish. The Krylon droplets actually cure (partially) in the air, and if they get blown back onto your work: instant texture paint. Painting is not all technique, you need a good environment. I'd probably switch back to Krylon if I had a spray booth to attain a predictable airflow, but where I paint outside, the winds are usually a problem. The longer leveling time of Rustoleum can easily cope with occasional "blow back".

If the winds are not a problem where you are (or if you paint in a booth), you may wish to consider a switch to Krylon, then you don't have to deal with the strange recoat rules.

 

[himitsu]

I'm just bumping the thread... because I made lots of changes to my previous post.

 

[hpreric]

I'm wondering if my lower humidity here is part of the problem.

Everything I read online says a max humidity but not a minimum. It could be a bad can (or two) of paint. That's no help though.

 

[Walldiver7]

Himitsu,
Thanks for the info... after reading your post, I think that I'm going to have to set up a few experiments.

 

[himitsu]

Everything I read online says a max humidity but not a minimum. It could be a bad can (or two) of paint. That's no help though.

Yup, the lower the humidity, the better. Too high a humidity, and the trapped water will make the finish cloudy, and gloss coats will lose their shine.

 

[MackDiesel]

I recently left half of a rocket sitting almost vertical against a fabric recliner chair for 3 days. The rocket was painted with 5 coats of rustoleum universal metallic copper and was cured for over 3 weeks. After resting on the chair, it left an imprint of the fabric pattern & fibers stuck to the finished rocket. I noticed the paint was still ever-so-slightly sticky when held for more than a second or two. I applied the coats every 30 minutes +/- 10, which I thought was closely following the instructions on the cans.

 

[himitsu]

I recently left half of a rocket sitting almost vertical against a fabric recliner chair for 3 days. The rocket was painted with 5 coats of rustoleum universal metallic copper and was cured for over 3 weeks. After resting on the chair, it left an imprint of the fabric pattern & fibers stuck to the finished rocket. I noticed the paint was still ever-so-slightly sticky when held for more than a second or two. I applied the coats every 30 minutes +/- 10, which I thought was closely following the instructions on the cans.

Yikes! That's disappointing. I've never had that problem, but I've heard (read on the Internet, actually) of similar complaints. It's notorious for taking much longer to cure if you build up a thick hide. I only ever apply no more than two or three very light coats. Then decals. Then I finish up with two light coats of Rustoleum Crystal Clear.

 

[Walldiver7]

Just put the decal on tonight. I am hopeful that I can lay down a couple of light coats of Crystal Clear without messing up the paint. The paint has now been on it for one week... but maybe I'll give it another 48 hours anyway.

 

[Screaminhelo]

...It's fully dry in 24 hours.
You can recoat within an hour, or after 48 hours.

...According to some enamel paint trouble-shooting guides: one cause of crazing is that the paint surface (not the air, or the paint) is too cold. That, however, is not the most popular reason for crazing. The most popular is that the old paint is not fully cured, and becomes "attacked" by the solvents in the new paint (causing the old paint to shift and create a vinyl-like texture). The solution (mitigation, really) is to always use very light "mist" coats when applying a second top coat (to keep the first top coat from becoming overwhelmed by solvents).

So, always wait more than 48 hours, before applying a color-change coat. Then always apply the color-change coat using very light "mist" coats. Make sure you finish up within an hours time.

I will second this. You can get away with a lot of paint sins by using a lighter hand for later coats. I always try to wait a minimum of 48 hrs if I am switching brands.

If you are having trouble with paint not curing after extended times, I suspect a bad batch or too much paint in a single session. You could make a curing oven with a cardboard box and incandescent bulbs to help with this. Just don't let it get too hot, less than 150 degrees I'm guessing.

If you do get crazing, it can be sanded out and re-coated. I just use whatever paint I have on hand and have had to deal with this occasionally when I have gotten impatient trying to make unfriendly paints play together.

Since it has been such an important part of my bag of tricks, I'll throw it up again...

...The solution (mitigation, really) is to always use very light "mist" coats when applying a second top coat (to keep the first top coat from becoming overwhelmed by solvents).

Experiment with this and you may find your self breaking the rules and spraying lacquer over enamel while watching lions playing tiddly winks with zebras rather than eating them. Rattle can paints can be a fickle mistress and what works perfectly for one may turn into a gooey, wrinkled mess for another depending on environment.

As for dust etc. in the finish, I try to polish it out starting with 400 grit wet or dry paper.


Every color in this finish is a different brand. White is Rusto 2x, red is cheapo Wal-Mart, black is Krylon and the metal finish is a finish powder. The NC crazed when I sprayed the finish coat for the red too soon but an extra day in a warm room took care of that and I was able to sand and re-spray.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV

 

[JohnCoker]

I posted a video on simple painting techniques, which may also be helpful in general, although not particular to Rustoleum products.

 

[Walldiver7]

Screaminhelo/JohnCoker,
Thanks for your comments. Awesome video, John!
My clear coat was a Success! I was able to lay down two LIGHT coats of Crystal Clear and it looks beautiful! Heavy Fog at the launch site cancelled it's maiden flight; Will try again next weekend. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[Walldiver7]

Screaminhelo,
I really like your paint scheme! Please post some close-ups!

 

[Screaminhelo]

Here's a couple of close shots for you. You can see in the shot of the fins how translucent the red on the decals is.

 

[Walldiver7]

Bill, that is ONE cool paint/decal combination! Thanks for posting!

Here's a couple of close shots for you. You can see in the shot of the fins how translucent the red on the decals is.
View attachment 155780
View attachment 155781

 

[VonMises]

The best advice is to read the instructions.

Generally speaking, when applying spray can enamel (Rustolium), you want to apply coats from 10 to 15 minutes apart. Once applied, let it set for a week before messing with it. Enamel applies thick due to it's nature, so if you intend to apply thick coats anyway, you may want to increase the cure time to 10 days.

Usually, enamel wrinkles when a new coat is applied over a partially cured layer.

Be sure to follow temp and humidity directions as well. These will affect the finish too.

It is possible to get a mirror finish from virtually any rattle can.

 

[kpklein]

I like to use Krylon when I can because there is no penalty for recoating too soon. I sometimes hit it with a heat gun to speed up the process if I'm in a hurry. For a clear finish, Krylon clear acrylic works over almost anything and dries fast.