Paint question

[bobby_hamill]

I got 2 sections of 4" fiberglass tubing at a good price. The kicker is the fiberglass resin is black in color.
What would be the best way to cover the black so I can apply a white topcoat ? Use a gray primer and use a
white topcoat ? Any recommendations are greatly appreciated .

Bobby

 

[SolarYellow]

White primer for a white topcoat. If the tube isn't super-smooth, you may want to use a filler-primer to get it that way before primer. If you do a white primer in between filler-primer and top coat, you can do a light grey filler-primer. If you want to go direct from filler-primer to top coat, there is a thread around here discussing white filler-primer options.

 

[KenECoyote]

If that's what you have, gray primer with white topcoat should be fine. Almost all of my primer is Rustoleum gray and I've never had issue with white over it.

 

[SolarYellow]

I can tell the difference between red over white and red over grey. It's noticeable if two abutting pieces have different primers.

 

[KenECoyote]

I can tell the difference between red over white and red over grey. It's noticeable if two abutting pieces have different primers.

Yes! Red is one color I make sure to put over white primer or over white paint.

However, the rockets shown above all had white paint over gray primer and I have many more. YMMV

 

[David Schwantz]

Actually, either will work. Just make sure you use the same color primer on entire rocket. Otherwise as noted above, it will show through. Red will appear darker over gray primer.

 

[bjphoenix]

Actually, either will work. Just make sure you use the same color primer on entire rocket. Otherwise as noted above, it will show through. Red will appear darker over gray primer.

I've been told that red and yellow are somewhat translucent and don't cover as well as other colors.

 

[David Schwantz]

Yellow is the worst. it can appear green if not fully covered. Just lots of thin light coats should be used.

 

[KenECoyote]

Here's one I did over a gray primer (all masked spray paint).



The trick was to have the colors applied in the right order.

 

[KenECoyote]

What would be the best way to cover the black so I can apply a white topcoat ? Use a gray primer and use a
white topcoat ?

Upon further thought, I feel that for a black surface, a gray primer is best if followed by the white topcoat.

This is because it's an easy transition from black to gray to white.

Sometimes if you try a white primer over a black surface, it'll look very blotchy and uneven requiring multiple coats. Of course after that, the white topcoat is easy, but you may not catch where the topcoat isn't as even vs. if you were spraying white over gray primer.

Regardless of what you decide on, always do test shots, especially if using different brands (which I wouldn't recommend).

Just my 20 cents. (inflation!)

 

[John Kemker]

I have to respectfully disagree with @KenECoyote on the whole "grey vs white" issue.

Use a white sealer/primer. Yes, you will probably have to lay down multiple coats in order to get the black completely covered, but if any of the white topcoat wears thin, you'll see white underneath, not grey. I've just put down white sealer on a fiberglass rocket that had been painted black. Took a few coats, but it's now completely white. I'll be shooting the topcoat (white) today.

 

[KenECoyote]

I have to respectfully disagree with @KenECoyote on the whole "grey vs white" issue.

Use a white sealer/primer. Yes, you will probably have to lay down multiple coats in order to get the black completely covered, but if any of the white topcoat wears thin, you'll see white underneath, not grey. I've just put down white sealer on a fiberglass rocket that had been painted black. Took a few coats, but it's now completely white. I'll be shooting the topcoat (white) today.

Ah, very interesting point!

Are your rockets mostly fiberglass?

I have painted an awful lot of white rockets, but the overwhelming majority were cardboard or phenolic. However, I don't ever recall seeing any gray exposed from wear. Never.

Also I normally protect my rockets to and from the launches (in boxes, crates and covered with bags or tarp), so they usually don't get travel rash, which may be a big cause of only top layer wear. Usually any rash my rockets get are down to the base material.

Given the OP asked about fg, I'll defer to the opinions of others.

"They can fill a building with everything I don't know!"

 

[KenECoyote]

@John Kemker got me thinking that maybe I'm not noticing the wear down to the gray primer, so I took a look at some of my larger white rockets that may show this (always good to doubt oneself a bit... especially as your eyesight gets worse lol).

Granted, it's not fg, but from what I've seen the primer bonds to the top coat paint better than the base surface.

One great recent example is my Madcow Phoenix, which has a white nose cone. On the last flight it came in ballistic from maybe 2,000' due to some issue with the reload (that left a bulge in the case and prevented ejection... announcer heard a pop during boost...void in the grain?).



It was buried DEEP into the dirt and so well that I had to almost completely dig the entire cone out.

Here's what it looked like after (Edit: cleaned).

The base cone color is white and granted if you look really close at the edges of the wear, you'll see a shade of gray, but one really can't tell without looking at it maybe a few inches away.

YMMV, just sharing my experiences to try to help!

 

[David Schwantz]

I don't really think digging one out of the dirt is normal wear and tear

 

[KenECoyote]

I don't really think digging one out of the dirt is normal wear and tear

For some it may be!

 

[John Kemker]

Ah, very interesting point!

Are your rockets mostly fiberglass?

I have painted an awful lot of white rockets, but the overwhelming majority were cardboard or phenolic. However, I don't ever recall seeing any gray exposed from wear. Never.

Also I normally protect my rockets to and from the launches (in boxes, crates and covered with bags or tarp), so they usually don't get travel rash, which may be a big cause of only top layer wear. Usually any rash my rockets get are down to the base material.

Given the OP asked about fg, I'll defer to the opinions of others.

"They can fill a building with everything I don't know!"

@John Kemker got me thinking that maybe I'm not noticing the wear down to the gray primer, so I took a look at some of my larger white rockets that may show this (always good to doubt oneself a bit... especially as your eyesight gets worse lol).

Granted, it's not fg, but from what I've seen the primer bonds to the top coat paint better than the base surface.

One great recent example is my Madcow Phoenix, which has a white nose cone. On the last flight it came in ballistic from maybe 2,000' due to some issue with the reload (that left a bulge in the case and prevented ejection... announcer heard a pop during boost...void in the grain?).



It was buried DEEP into the dirt and so well that I had to almost completely dig the entire cone out.
View attachment 615976
Here's what it looked like after.
View attachment 615975
The base cone color is white and granted if you look really close at the edges of the wear, you'll see a shade of gray, but one really can't tell without looking at it maybe a few inches away.

YMMV, just sharing my experiences to try to help!

My rockets are about half-and-half cardboard and fiberglass.

No, I'm not noticing wear, but going by the recommendation from Createx on underlying primer/sealer colors. Long exposure to sun *may* fade the topcoat some. Since a good primer/sealer can cover even black, when applied correctly, I prefer going with a matching sealer under the topcoat. Unless, of course, I'm going for a candy color, in which case, I'll seal with silver or gold, depending on the effect I'm aiming for.

That's why it's a "respectfully disagree" point, not a "NO! YOU'RE DEAD WRONG!" point. You do you.

 

[KenECoyote]

I guess this is like a glue thread lol

I'm in the habit of using gray primer because Rustoleum Filler & Primer is my goto and has given me results I'm happy with.

I think most of us could agree that the ideal solution is a gray area.

 

[SolarYellow]

Horses for courses, black, white, grey, or brown.

 

[John Kemker]

I guess this is like a glue thread lol

I'm in the habit of using gray primer because Rustoleum Filler & Primer is my goto and has given me results I'm happy with.

I think most of us could agree that the ideal solution is a gray area.

Exactly!

And, your pun is atrocious. I like it.

 

[Art Upton]

@John Kemker got me thinking that maybe I'm not noticing the wear down to the gray primer, so I took a look at some of my larger white rockets that may show this (always good to doubt oneself a bit... especially as your eyesight gets worse lol).

Granted, it's not fg, but from what I've seen the primer bonds to the top coat paint better than the base surface.

One great recent example is my Madcow Phoenix, which has a white nose cone. On the last flight it came in ballistic from maybe 2,000' due to some issue with the reload (that left a bulge in the case and prevented ejection... announcer heard a pop during boost...void in the grain?).



It was buried DEEP into the dirt and so well that I had to almost completely dig the entire cone out.
View attachment 615976
Here's what it looked like after.
View attachment 615975
The base cone color is white and granted if you look really close at the edges of the wear, you'll see a shade of gray, but one really can't tell without looking at it maybe a few inches away.

YMMV, just sharing my experiences to try to help!

Pops during boost are "almost" always Grain Liners exiting the nozzle; on big motors I have hear folks saying "It just broke Mach" which it did not, like the planet Venus with UFOs... it was just an expelled grain liner

 

[Art Upton]

Horses for courses, black, white, grey, or brown.

 

[rcktnut]

All I've ever used for any color topcoat is gray primer, never bought another color primer. Always figured it was a happy medium.
Agree with yellow being the worst for coverage. On most of my rockets 2 topcoats did the job. Pic. was for how to make rocket cradles, but had it so will post.

 

[KenECoyote]

Horses for courses, black, white, grey, or brown.

 

[John Kemker]

"I would tell you a joke about a sadistic, bestialist, necrophiliac, but that would be flogging a dead horse."