Our Children's Future: An LDRS34 Teen Group Project

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conman13 said:
Were glad that we can have people like you supporting us and willing to listen instead of immediately telling us were too young and this is out of our reach.
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I don't think it's age, but experience that gives people hesitation on this.
 
Glad to see a build thread is back up! I'm eagerly watching this thread, awaiting the build ;) I'm glad to see you guys pushing ahead in the face of (possible) doubts or difficulties. It's really a great project. Also glad to see you have a mentor, and have the motor figured out, as well as recovery gear. That's three major hurdles already cleared. :pop: :pop: :pop: :pop: :pop: :pop: :pop: Nate
 
The altimeter bay will start as soon as I get the piece of the body tube I need. :) This is going to be fun. I have almost 2 square feet of altimeter sled to play with.... :)
 
As a long time project manager, I would like you to consider some logistical points. I don't know your geographic distribution, so:

1) Divvying up the work is a time honored tradition (we call it subcontractors). How are you going to handle system integration? You can't verify something fits together via social media.

2) This thing is going to be a beast. How are you planning on getting it to the field? Once there, what are your plans for manhandling it?

3) LDRS is a good goal. LDRS on Monday is probably not the best idea. The range crew will be tired, and looking to go home. You guys will probably be working thru issues on the field and trying to troubleshoot while folks are trying to close down the range and get out of there. I suggest you target for Saturday and give you some slack time in your schedule.
 
blackbrandt said:
The altimeter bay will start as soon as I get the piece of the body tube I need. :) This is going to be fun. I have almost 2 square feet of altimeter sled to play with.... :)
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Might I suggest this arrangement on the sled?

abay.jpg

s6
 
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1. Yes the work is being divided between the four of us however I'm in Delmar NY and Cody/David are in New Hampshire not too far away. Matts in NC so he will have to ship us back the avbay but other then that we are close enough that getting together won't be a problem.

2. I'm bringing 2 cars and hopefully leaving my 2 sisters at home with someone as they do absolutely nothing but take up space ;) If I cant fit it in my car were going to rent a U-haul trailer and lug it up. I'm a pretty strong kid and with the help of everyone else lifting this thing will be no problem.

3. This will most likely fly Friday. Gives us time to be there 1 day get together and talk everything over again and then launch the next day when we are all ready.
 
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conman13 said:
1. Yes the work is being divided between the dour of us however I'm in Delmar NY and Cody/David are in New Hampshire not too far away. Matts in NC so he will have to ship us back the avbay but other then that we are close enough that we can test fit things if need be.
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Need will be said Yoda.
 
Another thanks goes out to Ken Allen at Performance Hobbies for donating the 98mm Aeropack for the build. Also another huge thank you to Eric (3Stoogesrocketry) for donating 7 yards of the fiberglass.


Thanks Everybody :)
 
Just a little update:

AMW no longer sells the tubes so we're now ordering 2 73" sections from Yazoo. We also contacted them about getting a custom tube made for the AV-Bay. Were hoping to get the airframe ordered by the end of the week.
 
Have you considered PML 11" Phenolic? It takes glass relatively well, will still give you the Holy C**P visual impact you seem to want, and getting couplers, bulk plates, etc. would be relatively straightforward.
 
H_Rocket said:
Have you considered PML 11" Phenolic? It takes glass relatively well, will still give you the Holy C**P visual impact you seem to want, and getting couplers, bulk plates, etc. would be relatively straightforward.
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One of the reasons we are not going with commercial tubing is that it is not economically feasible for us. Tubes as long as we need would cost more than PML tubing.
 
H_Rocket said:
Have you considered PML 11" Phenolic? It takes glass relatively well, will still give you the Holy C**P visual impact you seem to want, and getting couplers, bulk plates, etc. would be relatively straightforward.
Click to expand...

PML phenolic tubes are great however way out of our piece range for the amount of them we would need. We have access to a CNC machine snd lathes so bulkheads will be no problem. We have found the Yazoo 10" tubes will work perfectly for our needs.
 
timbucktoo said:
When does the build start?
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As soon as we can get the tubes and the epoxy/glass. Cody, David and I are in the process of choosing a date for everybody to meet up at my place to spend the day getting the tubes glassed.
 
hey guys I just got off the phone with one very special Rocketeer among us.

he has made an offer to your group to cover anything you need in the way of decals so guys the sky's the limit. No worries on cost!

let's make this thing look as cool as the rock it should be. I'll keep working with you and get it looking awesome!

Mark.
 
Wow! On behalf of the entire team, we want to give a major "THANK YOU" to the awesome person who did this. :)
 
what's your budget for epoxy or resin? you're going to need a LOT and it isn't cheap.
 
RKeller said:
what's your budget for epoxy or resin? you're going to need a LOT and it isn't cheap.
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We dont really have a budget for it but we are getting a half gallon of 2:1 system from US Composites to start out with. If we need more we will order more.
 
A half gallon? You may want to step very carefully here. If the tubes you are using are porous, a whole lot of that is going to simply go into the substrate. Also, what are your plans for how to do the actual layup? Do you have location to build out some form of framework to hold the tube while curing? Given that you are here in the northeast, you might want to consider which hardener you are using. My best guess will be the USC 4:1 fast hardener. The 2:1 you mention is not recommended for temperatures below 70 degrees Fahrenheit. A cooler temperatures will give you dry time measured in days and full cures at up to a week. Once you do the layup, If you are not using a veil then, if it matters to you, are you planning on sanding or filling the print through of the weave? In an earlier message, Jim mentioned (and I agree wholeheartedly), that you probably can build a HPR air frame w/o glass. Ask him his experience with M+ class rockets built "old school". There was a time when paper, plywood, and epoxy made for some big rockets. Of course I don't know if anyone tried a project of this scope in those days, so the discussion might not be germane.

Keeping on the assembly process, I presume you want to fillet the fins somehow, have you selected a fairing compound for this? Bondo is inexpensive (however IMHO a PITA to work with). Filled epoxy is great, however that eats into your stash quickly.

One comment I must make. It seems you are doing an admirable and incredibly ambitious project on a shoestring budget. Before you put one thing together, I encourage you to look at the scale of what you are trying to do and make sure you have a few more of the "I"s dotted and "T"s crossed. Do this before you start cutting things out and gluing them together. Getting to a critical juncture without the resources in place can sting - badly.
 
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H_Rocket said:
A half gallon? You may want to step very carefully here. If the tubes you are using are porous, a whole lot of that is going to simply go into the substrate. Also, what are your plans for how to do the actual layup? Do you have location to build out some form of framework to hold the tube while curing? Given that you are here in the northeast, you might want to consider which hardener you are using. My best guess will be the USC 4:1 fast hardener. The 2:1 you mention is not recommended for temperatures below 70 degrees Fahrenheit. A cooler temperatures will give you dry time measured in days and full cures at up to a week. Once you do the layup, If you are not using a veil then, if it matters to you, are you planning on sanding or filling the print through of the weave? In an earlier message, Jim mentioned (and I agree wholeheartedly), that you probably can build a HPR air frame w/o glass. Ask him his experience with M+ class rockets built "old school". There was a time when paper, plywood, and epoxy made for some big rockets. Of course I don't know if anyone tried a project of this scope in those days, so the discussion might not be germane.

Keeping on the assembly process, I presume you want to fillet the fins somehow, have you selected a fairing compound for this? Bondo is inexpensive (however IMHO a PITA to work with). Filled epoxy is great, however that eats into your stash quickly.

One comment I must make. It seems you are doing an admirable and incredibly ambitious project on a shoestring budget. Before you put one thing together, I encourage you to look at the scale of what you are trying to do and make sure you have a few more of the "I"s dotted and "T"s crossed. Do this before you start cutting things out and gluing them together. Getting to a critical juncture without the resources in place can sting - badly.
Click to expand...

If you guys haven't figured it out yet, it would be wise to listen to Al G. here as he is the launch director for LDRS34 and will be the ultimate yeah/nay vote on launching this thing.
 
H_Rocket said:
A half gallon? You may want to step very carefully here. If the tubes you are using are porous, a whole lot of that is going to simply go into the substrate. Also, what are your plans for how to do the actual layup? Do you have location to build out some form of framework to hold the tube while curing? Given that you are here in the northeast, you might want to consider which hardener you are using. My best guess will be the USC 4:1 fast hardener. The 2:1 you mention is not recommended for temperatures below 70 degrees Fahrenheit. A cooler temperatures will give you dry time measured in days and full cures at up to a week. Once you do the layup, If you are not using a veil then, if it matters to you, are you planning on sanding or filling the print through of the weave? In an earlier message, Jim mentioned (and I agree wholeheartedly), that you probably can build a HPR air frame w/o glass. Ask him his experience with M+ class rockets built "old school". There was a time when paper, plywood, and epoxy made for some big rockets. Of course I don't know if anyone tried a project of this scope in those days, so the discussion might not be germane.

Keeping on the assembly process, I presume you want to fillet the fins somehow, have you selected a fairing compound for this? Bondo is inexpensive (however IMHO a PITA to work with). Filled epoxy is great, however that eats into your stash quickly.

One comment I must make. It seems you are doing an admirable and incredibly ambitious project on a shoestring budget. Before you put one thing together, I encourage you to look at the scale of what you are trying to do and make sure you have a few more of the "I"s dotted and "T"s crossed. Do this before you start cutting things out and gluing them together. Getting to a critical juncture without the resources in place can sting - badly.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the response. I will talk to the team about the epoxy hardener that we will use. I'm thinking maybe a faster cure may be good. I have a couple of stands that we will us for support during the layup. I have plenty enough room in my basement to do whatever we need in a warm temperature. I have some .75 oz glass we can use as a veil if we do decide to do one which may be a good idea that i never thought about as filling the 7oz would not have been fun! As we are not that worried about the final weight we feel more comfortable with the layer of glass on the tube. we are using cheap collide silica as filler for the fillets. We will definitely be measuring 4 times and checking 3 times ;) We dont really have a large back up budget for if something goes wrong which is something we should start.
 
Actually, I'm just helping out at LDRS this time. Bill Clune is the LD, and Dan Michael is the BFR Committee chair. Taking Tim's point, this will be a showpiece and you might want to give them a heads up on it.

Something I did not think of until now is the launch tower. You might want to contact URRG (Bill or Dave "Dizwolf" McCann) to make sure you launch guidance plans are in line with the tower capabilities at URRG.
 

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