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This is balderdash and it's shameful that the NAR puts this kind of drivel on their site. The only part that is real and true is that you must comply with the regulations. If you can build a high power rocket and launch it, you are indeed smart enough to ship hazardous materials. I have done it, and it's not hard.
You're totally correct on that. When Scott Kormeier took over Loki from Dr. Jeff Taylor. He told us he had to go through that course to be a shipper. Said it wasn't too bad but it was a PITA time wise as he wanted to keep Loki in operation seamlessly with the transfer of ownership to him. Scott moved to Missouri and worked for Dr. Taylor I believe over a year (or longer) before he bought the business and took over.
I think the best advice to the OP is to try to sell the motor grains onsite for a direct hand off to the flier. Yeah, I'd check their certification as a matter of reason but avoids the shipping dilemma. A lot easier if one knows the buyer personally. If there are major launches nearby should be pretty easy if one gets the word out to the local fliers in advance. I'd stay low key at a launch though if there are onsite vendors. I think they'd get ticked off of someone undercutting them. A club launch with no vendors would be perfect.

I see many folks who sell motor grains on TRF but they stipulate it's for pickup locally only or at an agreed upon site. Most want cash. Easy to get a cashier's check at a bank though if the sale is agreed upon on the phone.
Doesn't cost much especially it one gets the check at the bank they do a modest amount of business at. Sometimes it' no fee for the check. Kurt
 
I see many folks who sell motor grains on TRF but they stipulate it's for pickup locally only or at an agreed upon site. Most want cash. Easy to get a cashier's check at a bank though if the sale is agreed upon on the phone.

And a lot of times, if you can't make it to where the seller is, you can find someone who will. It just means it'll take longer before the motors are in your hands.

I've done rocketry handoffs to and from people at launches, before. Always easy.

Heck, I had someone pick up and bring a computer to a launch for me.

-Kevin
 
And a lot of times, if you can't make it to where the seller is, you can find someone who will. It just means it'll take longer before the motors are in your hands.

I've done rocketry handoffs to and from people at launches, before. Always easy.

Heck, I had someone pick up and bring a computer to a launch for me.

-Kevin
Kev,

Was it a trade or a trade plus cash!;)
 
Was it a trade or a trade plus cash!;)

I paid the person with the computer cash. The rocketry person who brought it to Argonia for me didn't charge me for the assistance.

I've also driven a computer component to Portland, OR for a rocketry person. :)

That said, trading rocketry stuff for computer stuff wouldn't be something I'd be opposed to.... Wheelin' and dealin'!
 
This is balderdash and it's shameful that the NAR puts this kind of drivel on their site. The only part that is real and true is that you must comply with the regulations. If you can build a high power rocket and launch it, you are indeed smart enough to ship hazardous materials. I have done it, and it's not hard. The steps:

1) Open a Fedex account
2) Pay $150 for their online training which covers how to ship hazardous materials and their process for doing the same
3) Tell your account manager you want to ship hazardous materials and they will enable your account to print the documents required
4) Figure out what class the hazardous materials you want to ship are. Fedex won't ship all hazardous materials, but they will ship most. The Fedex Hazardous materials table is located here and spells that out.
5) Look at the entry for the item you want to ship. Model Rocket Motors are either 1.4C or 1.4S Also look at the UN/NA number to determine which class it is. This is the hardest part of the exercise. A few ways to figure it out. Look at how shipments are marked from people that ship these daily is the easiest.
You can read the description by Googling:

For instance, NA0276 says: This description applies to items previously described as “Toy propellant devices, Class C” and includes reloadable kits. Model rocket motors containing 30 grams or less propellant are classed as Division 1.4S and items containing more than 30 grams of propellant but not more than 62.5 grams of propellant are classed as Division 1.4C.

Practically, that means if each motor grain is less than 30 grams, it's 1.4S NA0323 If it's more than 30 but less than 62.5, its 1.4C NA0276

6) This next part is very important. Call Fedex and tell them what you plan to ship, and they will tell you if you are correct and help fill out the paperwork. All the forms required they send you for free and print out automatically from their online software, once your account is enabled to ship hazmat. They have folks that know the hazmat rules inside and out, and they are very helpful.

7) Prepare your shipment. There are box specifications for shipping hazmat. You can't recycle old amazon boxes. Needs to be a new carboard box with the proper burst strength. You learn about that in the fedex trainging

8) The software will fill out a 6 part form called OP-900 which contains the description of the contents and the account number, emergency contact, etc. You sign and date all 6 copies. The documents tells you where to put the copies, most of them fit into a plastic envelope and gets stuck to the box. You retain a copy. Then you print out all the hazmat shipments for the day, another document called OP-950A gets printed out which is the certification. You get a copy, and you put a copy in an envelope for the driver,

9)The last thing you need to do is annotate the proper hazard class on the box. One sticker has to have the 1.4C/S on it and must be commercially prepared. Uline sells them. The other you can make yourself or even write on the box which includes the UN/NA number and any EX numbers associated with it.,

So, your box has 4 stickers on it. The standard shipping label, the plastic pouch with the multicopy form OP-900, the orange triangular hazard class sticker and the UN/NA classification with EX numbers. You also need to print out the Hazardous materials cert and put it in an envelope for the driver.

10) Last is call Fedex to come pick it up. Fedex stores and dropoff locations will not accept hazardous materials. The request for pickup I think is $5, but it applies to all the shipments you are making, so it pays to let them accumulate so you have more than one going out with each shipment. Additionally, in addition to the normal ground freight charge, you also now pay $48 for the hazmat processing per shipment. All of this applies to GROUND shipments only. I'm sure UPS has similar rules if you prefer to use them.

Back a few years ago small arms primers became astronomically expensive, and I went through all of the above because I had several hundred thousand and sold some of them to thin the herd and take advantage of the ridiculous demand. I followed the rules above and never had an issue. IF you follow the steps, call the hazmat specialists at FEDEX and do what they say, you will be just fine.

Is this worth the time and effort to sell a single reload? Of course not. But if you are sitting on a mountain of motors, and you are leaving the hobby, don't let the scary hazmat rules scare you. You can do it!
Nice write up...but....get any part of it wrong and the FINES are HUGE. Neither DOT or the US Mail play nice when it comes to Hazardous Materials. Better off to leave it to professionals especially since the OP is only likely to do this once, if it was his business shipping then its worth doing.
 
Nice write up...but....get any part of it wrong and the FINES are HUGE. Neither DOT or the US Mail play nice when it comes to Hazardous Materials. Better off to leave it to professionals especially since the OP is only likely to do this once, if it was his business shipping then its worth doing.
As an example of how even the pros can get it wrong, I sold a case of old R12 (in cans) to a recycler last fall. They sent me a box with very detailed instructions and forms. The box was already pre-labeled and had the forms pouch and everything. Fedex picked it up, but returned it 2 days later because it had the wrong sticker. Literally all they do is ship freon via Hazmat, and they still made a mistake.


Tony
 
I was a HAZMAT certified shipper both when I was stationed at Ft. Sam Houston, and the entire time I was an Aviation Officer.
It really isn't that hard once you understand how the system works.

And once you are certified, and if the "mistake" is clearly a mistake while TRYING to comply with the rules/laws, there is seldom an onerous (or any) fine.

One would think the average rocketeer, where many of us lean OCD, would not have an issue at all. :)

Shoot... perhaps I will get my cert renewed.... Haven't read the Domestic Mail Manual since it was only on paper... 'bout time I guess.
 
This is balderdash and it's shameful that the NAR puts this kind of drivel on their site. The only part that is real and true is that you must comply with the regulations. If you can build a high power rocket and launch it, you are indeed smart enough to ship hazardous materials. I have done it, and it's not hard. The steps:

1) Open a Fedex account
2) Pay $150 for their online training which covers how to ship hazardous materials and their process for doing the same
3) Tell your account manager you want to ship hazardous materials and they will enable your account to print the documents required
4) Figure out what class the hazardous materials you want to ship are. Fedex won't ship all hazardous materials, but they will ship most. The Fedex Hazardous materials table is located here and spells that out.
5) Look at the entry for the item you want to ship. Model Rocket Motors are either 1.4C or 1.4S Also look at the UN/NA number to determine which class it is. This is the hardest part of the exercise. A few ways to figure it out. Look at how shipments are marked from people that ship these daily is the easiest.
You can read the description by Googling:

For instance, NA0276 says: This description applies to items previously described as “Toy propellant devices, Class C” and includes reloadable kits. Model rocket motors containing 30 grams or less propellant are classed as Division 1.4S and items containing more than 30 grams of propellant but not more than 62.5 grams of propellant are classed as Division 1.4C.

Practically, that means if each motor grain is less than 30 grams, it's 1.4S NA0323 If it's more than 30 but less than 62.5, its 1.4C NA0276

6) This next part is very important. Call Fedex and tell them what you plan to ship, and they will tell you if you are correct and help fill out the paperwork. All the forms required they send you for free and print out automatically from their online software, once your account is enabled to ship hazmat. They have folks that know the hazmat rules inside and out, and they are very helpful.

7) Prepare your shipment. There are box specifications for shipping hazmat. You can't recycle old amazon boxes. Needs to be a new carboard box with the proper burst strength. You learn about that in the fedex trainging

8) The software will fill out a 6 part form called OP-900 which contains the description of the contents and the account number, emergency contact, etc. You sign and date all 6 copies. The documents tells you where to put the copies, most of them fit into a plastic envelope and gets stuck to the box. You retain a copy. Then you print out all the hazmat shipments for the day, another document called OP-950A gets printed out which is the certification. You get a copy, and you put a copy in an envelope for the driver,

9)The last thing you need to do is annotate the proper hazard class on the box. One sticker has to have the 1.4C/S on it and must be commercially prepared. Uline sells them. The other you can make yourself or even write on the box which includes the UN/NA number and any EX numbers associated with it.,

So, your box has 4 stickers on it. The standard shipping label, the plastic pouch with the multicopy form OP-900, the orange triangular hazard class sticker and the UN/NA classification with EX numbers. You also need to print out the Hazardous materials cert and put it in an envelope for the driver.

10) Last is call Fedex to come pick it up. Fedex stores and dropoff locations will not accept hazardous materials. The request for pickup I think is $5, but it applies to all the shipments you are making, so it pays to let them accumulate so you have more than one going out with each shipment. Additionally, in addition to the normal ground freight charge, you also now pay $48 for the hazmat processing per shipment. All of this applies to GROUND shipments only. I'm sure UPS has similar rules if you prefer to use them.

Back a few years ago small arms primers became astronomically expensive, and I went through all of the above because I had several hundred thousand and sold some of them to thin the herd and take advantage of the ridiculous demand. I followed the rules above and never had an issue. IF you follow the steps, call the hazmat specialists at FEDEX and do what they say, you will be just fine.

Is this worth the time and effort to sell a single reload? Of course not. But if you are sitting on a mountain of motors, and you are leaving the hobby, don't let the scary hazmat rules scare you. You can do it!
Yes! I have my certification to ship Class 9 Dangerous Goods as I ship custom made metal lithium batteries to support equipment in papermills domestically and internationally. I've done this for more than a decade and taking the certification class (which needs to be renewed every 2 years as per IATA regulations) is not impossible or really all that hard to get. My question is I need to have a 24/7 phone number that emergency responders can call in the event of an emergency. For my class 9 goods it costs $6,000/year. While I realize solid rocket motors are a lower class of Dangerous Goods, is a contract with a 24/7 contact still required?
 
Man….
Look, I’ll do $76.00 plus shipping and I’ll throw in my last three 8-tracks, Peter Frampton, Chicago, and the Doobie Brothers.
Alright, I can see this is going to get serious now.

$76.00 plus shipping
Plus the three 8-tracks
Plus a windows 95 desk top
Plus a shoe box full of floppy disc’s
 
Buster Keaton, Laurel and Hardy, the Three Stooges, these were some of the clowns that made me roll over with laughter when I was a kid.

Now I have heard something that reminds me of them. Tucker Carlson is promoting the insidious rumor that at least one of the objects was a US national weather service balloon.

 
Tucker Carlson is a blithering wet dishcloth of an idiot. Says an awful about Fox when they continue to employ him.
Seems to me he's pretty good on some subjects, but off in la-la land on others. UFOs and this balloon thing are examples of #2.


pun intended...
 
What happens to all the atmospheric sounding radiosondes (balloons) that are launched twice a day across North America? There has to be hundreds daily.

I would not totally discount Carlson's reporting yet.

https://www.aos.wisc.edu/~hopkins/wx-inst/wxi-raob.htm
They go up, they pop, they fall back down. Very few are ever found. Total trip, up and down can be from 90 minutes to a few hours. It depends upon how much gas is in the balloon, which controls how fast it goes up.

The information in the link you mention is slightly in error, and a bit out of date. The sondes send back GPS data.
 
I would not totally discount Carlson's reporting yet.

After seeing him entertain and seriously interview that moron about the metric system being some evil conspiracy I think it is totally reasonable to discredit anything and everything he says unless its something like "the sky is blue." I realize most talking heads chase money over journalistic integrity but Tucker is especially egregious in this endeavor.
 
OK, so let's take a look at, you know, actual weather balloons from the NWS. The balloons start at 6' diameter, expand to about 20' diameter, and carry a payload that's a slightly scaled-up half-gallon milk container. If you did an ounce of research instead of just flinging snark from afar like a capuchin monkey, you'd know that. For more details, see here, with a video here. I've clipped out this picture from the video--the radiosonde is the white object behind the person working.

View attachment 563280

So that's what a NWS weather balloon looks like. What are the descriptions of the other objects shot down?
Lake Huron, February 12: Octagonal with strings hanging off [Verdict: Nope! Not a weather balloon!]
Canadian Yukon, February 11: Small metallic balloon with a cylindrical payload [Verdict: Nope! NWS balloons are latex and have rectangular payloads]
Alaska, February 10: The size of a small car. [Verdict: Nope! Unless you're putting clowns in the car]

Is that enough for you to discount Tucker's reporting?

PS: According to the NWS link above, there are about 75,000 weather balloons launched per year, and about 20% are returned. Of course, you could have figured that out in about 10 seconds of Googling instead of "Just asking questions."
I had to look up what a capuchin monkey was. Kinda cute.
 
Buster Keaton, Laurel and Hardy, the Three Stooges, these were some of the clowns that made me roll over with laughter when I was a kid.

Now I have heard something that reminds me of them. Tucker Carlson is promoting the insidious rumor that at least one of the objects was a US national weather service balloon.



Tucker Carlson makes a ton of money peddling conspiracy theories and fear mongering because he can deliver an audience of credulous fools, and advertisers love credulous fools.

The US did not shoot down one of our weather balloons. We shot down Balloon Boy and David Blaine.

B3A9195B-39E3-4B02-942C-05EB058FD506.jpeg

1369E71D-E61E-4B7E-98D3-4F943572BE85.jpeg

Good riddance! Now a word from our male enhancement sponsors.
 
Good to know we can get out of here right away. Thought maybe we'd be stuck here only being able to post on this thread until we are forgiven.
 
Tucker Carlson is a blithering wet dishcloth of an idiot. Says an awful about Fox when they continue to employ him.
Tucker Carlson actually said this ? :

So, all tonight we know with certainty is that the Chinese military just flew an aircraft that reportedly contained explosives over the entire length of the United States and got away with it. That seems like a bad precedent.
 
Tucker Carlson actually said this ? :

So, all tonight we know with certainty is that the Chinese military just flew an aircraft that reportedly contained explosives over the entire length of the United States and got away with it. That seems like a bad precedent.
While a parachute ejection charge is technically an explosive, saying that an aircraft with an ejection charge was "carrying explosives" is asking your audience to make a leap of logic that the balloon was armed with bombs. That kind of fearmongering isn't helpful.
 
After seeing him entertain and seriously interview that moron about the metric system being some evil conspiracy I think it is totally reasonable to discredit anything and everything he says unless its something like "the sky is blue." I realize most talking heads chase money over journalistic integrity but Tucker is especially egregious in this endeavor.
The fact you use "journalistic integrity" about anyone on any network is very telling. We'll see if he's right or not, but it will likely be a case of being "mostly right" and that's not good enough for many who can't tell where information stops and opinion starts...
 
Alright, I can see this is going to get serious now.

$76.00 plus shipping
Plus the three 8-tracks
Plus a windows 95 desk top
Plus a shoe box full of floppy disc’s
OK, even though I now think that I’m being played, I an going to make one more final offer to secure this ancient tepanol

$76.00 plus shipping
Plus the three 8-tracks
Plus the Windows 95 desk top
Plus the shoe box full if floppy disc’s
Plus 2 BetaMax movies, Dances with Wolves & Beauty and the Beast
Plus a Super Nintendo

Now that’s an offer you can’t refuse!!!
 
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