L1 cost

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runandgun13

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I am considering working on my Jr. L1 certification this summer. I have only been seriously thinking about it for the past few days so I have not done much research on it yet. One hing that would be a major discouragement to me would be the cost. I am turning 15 in a few days so funds are a big issue. What, for those of you who have done L1, have you found to be the overall cost for the rocket, motor w/ housing, etc. I do not need to worry about electronics as I am developing some for my TARC team this summer. Any and all input would be appreciated.
 
Mine was on a PML Mini BBX with an Ellis SU H50 with parachute @ motor ejection. I think all out I paid maybe $130

If you want to go RMS, consider an H165 and I'll loan you the case at one of our launches.

Al
 
I will be going for my level 1 this summer and the rocket will run me $80 (LOC EZI-65) then add on $20 for my modifications (fiberglass and epoxy) and $80 for the motor casing (38/240) and $20 for the re-load (H-123W). So it will cost me $200 but really only $20 for the flight.

Plus I was only 18 when I signed up for NAR so it only cost me $15. :D
 
I did mine for 108.00 , bought a Areo-tech Sumo for 68.00 on e-bay and a single use H 125 for 40.00 That was it!
Most on site vendors will loan you a motor casing, if you buy the re-load from them for certification. But all will make you honor the "lose it or break it, you buy it clause''.
So you can certify for the price of your rocket and glue and 20.00 for the re-load.

Almost forgot AND the cost of joining either Tripoli or NAR the two rocket organazations that oversee and sponser rocketry. That will add another 50-70 bucks.
 
I took the same route as Blackjack.

NAR Membership - $65
AT Sumo - Sale Price
Level 1 Promo (H128W-M w/casing) - $20; you might still be able to get on AT's Spring promo and save some money.


Now onto Level 2, later this summer . . .
 
Is probably the biggest variable, the sumo would be a descent kit... Very easy to build, shouldnt need other parts... But it is much different then most rockets because of how it all snaps together...

Then you will need the 29/180 motor hardware (or borrow it) but the reloads are very cheap (for HPR), I think an H128 is like 12-13 bucks...

There are a lot of LOC and PML kits to that can fly on 29mm MPR motors and small HPR loads like the H128...

Another good company to look into is cosmodrome.
https://www.cosmodromerocketry.com

From discount rocketry you can get either the nike smoke or the black brant for under $50's

https://www.discountrocketry.com/hi....html?osCsid=73c5d42b4f2a7cde848435aa8cbb0afd

Check out the other vendors to...

I had the nike smoke and flew it on 29/240 loads and even an ellis mountain H275! Might have broken mach on that motor... Mine was built stock except I bought a bunch of PML coupler tubes and epoxied them in, the airframe is decent but not super rigid so I used the couplers to make it take the larger motors...

It says the H97 is the largest it can take but I am sure if you build it well it can take the H128... The black brant has the H180 on the motor list so I see no reason why the smaller H128 wouldnt work as well...

The kits are nice, basic kits like a LOC rocket but they do include a simple al-thread nut and screw retention system which is nice... And they have a very interesting recovery mount system and balsa cones....

My nike got beat up but lasted a while and was a neat rocket I think...

LOC and PML kits are a bit more pricey, and dont have motor retention... But there are plenty of retention methods anywhere from a few bucks at the hardware store to a $30, but very functional unit.
 
My L1 cost be about $90 or so. $70 for the Tripoli field membership and $20 for the H128.

My BSD Sprint that I flew had been a birthday gift. All I had invested in the rocket was time, epoxy and paint.

Get this, my L2 was even cheaper, $60 for the Rouse-Tech 38/720 and J350 reload. AT and RT had a killer deal at the time.:D

My Binder Raptor was a Christmas gift. Talk about certing on a budget!!!:D
 
Thanks for all the input. I am looking at the PML AMRAAM 2 because it is cheap, versatile, and I like their kits. I will probably fly it in either and H128 or an H165 and use motor ejection for recovery. I won't be able to make the AT spring sale b/c I still haven't talked to my parents and this would be over the summer.
 
The PML Amraam 2 is an AWESOME kit! I have one, and love it. I've never flown it on an H, but I know people who have (CTulanko on here used his for his L1). I did my L1 on a PML Small Endeavour (purchased for about $75 if I remember correctly) and an H165. As others have said, the biggest costs (not including the rocket) are motor casing and national organization membership. Many will loan casings, but there's no getting around the membership thing.
 
I should be fine then. I think I'll take Al up on his offer for the case, and i am already an NAR member. I need to renew, but that is already in my budget. I as just looking on the PML website, and the soecs for the AMRAAM 2 and 3 were exactly the same. Are those right, or not.
 
Cost to L1........

PML Phobos..........about $50
PML PMR...............about $10
Dr Rocket 29mm...about $60
H128 reload.........about $12

Total S132

The Small Endevour mentioned previously is a good flyer as well. I've seen a couple of certs done with them.

Al
 
You could scratch-build too - like a simple upscale of an LPR that you know flies well.

Ask me how I know... :cool:
 
Although, you might not want to pick the same one DaveCombs did...his nosecone cost more than the rest of the rocket...and more than my Small Endeavour, now that I think about it...lol
 
I spent a lot on my Level 1 rocket. About $70 or $80 for the kit to which I added a parachute, Giant Leap's "fireball", other recovery system components, fiber glass and epoxy, a motor-mount adapter, a Slim-Line retainer, and about $100 worth of spray paint.

I'm going the opposite route for my Level 2. I'm scratch-building a rocket starting with a concrete-form tube. I'm cutting my own centering rings and making my own nose cone. I plan to spend less than $100 for the whole rocket.

-- Roger
 
Originally posted by runandgun13
I should be fine then. I think I'll take Al up on his offer for the case, and i am already an NAR member. I need to renew, but that is already in my budget. I as just looking on the PML website, and the soecs for the AMRAAM 2 and 3 were exactly the same. Are those right, or not.

On the webstore list page, they have the data for the Amraam 2 wrong. Click on the link in that section for the "complete data sheet including recommended motors" to see the correct data.
 
Originally posted by Loopy
On the webstore list page, they have the data for the Amraam 2 wrong. Click on the link in that section for the "complete data sheet including recommended motors" to see the correct data.

Thanks for that. If my parents let me int will definately be the AMRAAM 2 with either an H128 or H165 and use motor ejection. Does the AMRAAm come with any sort of motor retention??
 
Nope. I added threaded inserts to mine and hold the motor in with a hex screw and brass clip. Slimline is another option on this one, as the centering ring is not all that big...
 
Here is a question for you....

Why don't you just use your TARC rocket. There is nothing in the rules that say you have to build a new one for the flight.

A
 
To do your L1 "on the cheap", you can do what I did:

Buy a RalphCo Crayon Bank at Toys R Us for $5 or $6.

Buy a 29mm motor tube from your favorite rocketry vendor for about $2-$3.

Buy 3 pieces of 6" x 12" x 1/8" 5-ply aircraft plywood at your local hobby store, or from some place like Tower Hobbies online, for under $10. Use this to make 3 fins, and 2 centering rings to fit your motor tube in your bank, and a third centering ring that's smaller to fit inside the plastic tail cone, and provide a place to anchor your motor retention.

Not to scale:

Code:
  +---+
  |    \
  |     \
  |      |
 ~|~~~===|=============================
{ |      |#          #
{#|      |#          #
-----------------------

-----------------------
{#|      |#          #
{ |      |#          #
 ~|~~~===|=============================
  |      |
  |     /
  |    /
  +---+

Legend:  ~ and { are plastic
         +, -, and | are plywood fins
         # are plywood centering rings
         ---- is the motor mount tube

Use about 15' of tubular nylon for a shock cord, with the parachute 1/3 of the distance from the nose cone. Anchor the cord into the tip of the nose by drilling a hole cross-ways through the tip, tying a loop in the end of the shock cord, and passing a dowel through the holes and the loop. Pour an ounce or two of epoxy into the tip to anchor the cord and the dowel. If the dowel is a tight fit for the holes (e.g.: use a 1/4" dowel and 1/4" drill bit), then the epoxy won't leak out around the dowel. If it's not tight, tape around the outside of each dowel end before you pour the epoxy.

Trim the dowel ends flush with the surface of the nose when the epoxy has hardened.

Use a razor blade, utility knife, or Xacto to trim the "ribs" of the nose cone base to reduce how tightly it grips into the tube. Or, simply sand it down with coarse sandpaper.

Use an eyebolt or a u-bolt to attach the other end of the shock cord to the forward centering ring. Use washers, and add epoxy over the nuts to keep them from unscrewing themselves over time.

Use a couple of T-nuts with screws and bent scraps of metal for motor retention.

Total rocket cost, including hardware & epoxy: $25-$30, assuming you can borrow a nylon parachute (around 42" - 48" works great) from another of your rockets.

Then, buy the Aerotech L1 Cert special. You get a 29/180 motor case with closures, and an H128 reload, for about the price of the reload alone ($20, if I recall correctly). The default "medium" delay on an H128 is just about perfect for this rocket.

- Rick "the crayon rocket guy" Dickinson
 
Like the amram 2 or 3 will work well..

If you cant afford a slimline or aeropack retainer either use a PML PMR system which is nice or just put a threaded insert or two in the rings, or a t-nut.... (search)... Then use a washer or mirror clip to retain the motor.

H128 for the cert... H165 later...

White lightning wont stress the rocket as much and the delay timing is a bit more reliable due to catalysts in the redline fuel... Its not really an issue but I like to be extra safe for certs... Plus the H128 is an awesome motor!
 
Originally posted by Hospital_Rocket
Here is a question for you....

Why don't you just use your TARC rocket. There is nothing in the rules that say you have to build a new one for the flight.

A

The TARC rocket belongs to the troop and it has a 24mm mmt, weighs (without egg and altimeter) around 9 oz. and it is amazing it flies on an F24 and survives. I think the AMRAAm will be the best b/c I am going to get one eventually, so I might as well start out with one, I can fly it with my 29/40-120 case and I have the money.
 
Originally posted by RocketRick
To do your L1 "on the cheap", you can do what I did:

Buy a RalphCo Crayon Bank at Toys R Us for $5 or $6.

Buy a 29mm motor tube from your favorite rocketry vendor for about $2-$3.

Buy 3 pieces of 6" x 12" x 1/8" 5-ply aircraft plywood at your local hobby store, or from some place like Tower Hobbies online, for under $10. Use this to make 3 fins, and 2 centering rings to fit your motor tube in your bank, and a third centering ring that's smaller to fit inside the plastic tail cone, and provide a place to anchor your motor retention.

Not to scale:

Code:
  +---+
  |    \
  |     \
  |      |
 ~|~~~===|=============================
{ |      |#          #
{#|      |#          #
-----------------------

-----------------------
{#|      |#          #
{ |      |#          #
 ~|~~~===|=============================
  |      |
  |     /
  |    /
  +---+

Legend:  ~ and { are plastic
         +, -, and | are plywood fins
         # are plywood centering rings
         ---- is the motor mount tube

Use about 15' of tubular nylon for a shock cord, with the parachute 1/3 of the distance from the nose cone. Anchor the cord into the tip of the nose by drilling a hole cross-ways through the tip, tying a loop in the end of the shock cord, and passing a dowel through the holes and the loop. Pour an ounce or two of epoxy into the tip to anchor the cord and the dowel. If the dowel is a tight fit for the holes (e.g.: use a 1/4" dowel and 1/4" drill bit), then the epoxy won't leak out around the dowel. If it's not tight, tape around the outside of each dowel end before you pour the epoxy.

Trim the dowel ends flush with the surface of the nose when the epoxy has hardened.

Use a razor blade, utility knife, or Xacto to trim the "ribs" of the nose cone base to reduce how tightly it grips into the tube. Or, simply sand it down with coarse sandpaper.

Use an eyebolt or a u-bolt to attach the other end of the shock cord to the forward centering ring. Use washers, and add epoxy over the nuts to keep them from unscrewing themselves over time.

Use a couple of T-nuts with screws and bent scraps of metal for motor retention.

Total rocket cost, including hardware & epoxy: $25-$30, assuming you can borrow a nylon parachute (around 42" - 48" works great) from another of your rockets.

Then, buy the Aerotech L1 Cert special. You get a 29/180 motor case with closures, and an H128 reload, for about the price of the reload alone ($20, if I recall correctly). The default "medium" delay on an H128 is just about perfect for this rocket.

- Rick "the crayon rocket guy" Dickinson

I like that Idea. While I'm not using it for my cert (if my parents approve), I may put it on my growing list of projects. Right behind The AMRAAM (one again, it my parents let me get my cert), a 4X upscale fliskits borealis, and a space shuttle. Thanks for the help though.
 
You may like... fully functional with drop away boosters and either glide, parachute or RC recovery...

$3000's and its yours! ;)

Hope the parents approve of the Jr. L1 and you talked about having electronics from different rockets, just remember you cant use e-matches or BP (other then the BP in the motor kit) for the cert flight or any flights at all under the Jr. L1, but you can use electronics for flight data...
 
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