JL chute release and nomex parachute protector

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Jimbooregon

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Hi again all,
This site has been a great resource for me and I really appreciate all the help.
I'm building an easy one, the old classic Big Bertha, to try out a few things on a less expensive scale. Even though it won't go very high I'm using it to learn how to use a Jolly Logic altimeter 2 and their chute release.
I want to use a shock cord of ten feet 250lb kevlar tied to the motor mount.
My question is: all the videos that I have seen show the JLCR tied around the parachute. Can I add a nomex Chute protector attached near the air frame tube opening and attach the JLCR there? Problems?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
James
Ayr Scotland
 
I want to see the answer to this as well.

I got my JLCR yesterday. The manual shows it tied to a shroud line.

I have some 500lb rated falconry sampo ball bearing swivels. My plan is kevlar harness from body tube to quicklink (stainless 300lb) attach JLCR to quick link, and 30" parachute to quick link.

Fold chute with shroud lines in a Z inside, right next to nose cone to insure it comes out with cone. Use nomex protector with a slide stop 5' below below nose cone and chute mount so it cant interfere with the chute, but can slide along the15' kevlar harness to absorb energy. My worry is tangling.

This is a very good question, and I am wondering the same as OP.

Steve
 
I'll be watching this discussion too, as I need to start messing with my chute release too. :)
 
Hi James.

From what you describe, you would be attaching the JLCR to the shock chord near your Nomex blanket attachment point. The JLCR is advised to NOT be attached to any part of the main shock chord as the loads at deployment will pull it off the parachute and your chute will immediately inflate at deployment, presumably at apogee, therefore rendering its use pointless.

The standard approach is to attach the short lanyard of the JLCR to one of the chute shroud lines of your folded chute and then wrap your elastic band/pin around the folded chute to hold it tightly bundled until your the set descent altitude. Please member to attach it to the shroud line, even with a simple "crows foot" so that it comes back with your chute and doesn't drop off after it releases the pin (yes, I've done that rookie mistake).
 
Hello again James,

You prompted me to jot down as many key points as I could gather from my brain on the use of a JLCR, all of which I've gradually learned to appreciate over the last 4 years of HPR from trial and error and from gathering learning from the many threads and debates regrading them here on this mazing forum.

JLCR advice, in no particular order…
  • Read the instructions that the JLCR came with. This will still not be enough.
  • Watch videos about how to use it. Watch them a couple of times to see what additional knowledge you pick up each time. However, be aware that there can be other interesting rocket set-up and configuration things going on in some of the videos and photos that can distract or confuse.
  • Read TRF threads about the JLCR, but, again, be aware that there can be other set-up and configuration things going on that can distract or confuse.
  • Reconsider your chute folding technique from before you had a JLCR. It’s generally accepted that your chute folding technique for using a JLCR needs to be different that before. Again, read some of the TRF threads on this and consult other rocketry club members.
  • Check with other rocketry club members to tap into their knowledge about using JLCR devices.
  • Upgrade to a thicker/stronger lanyard material than the really thin Kevlar one supplied. I’ve lost one to a CATO where the mid-air “flaming death” burned through the Kevlar lanyard and now its lost forever.
  • Power up the JLCR the day before launch day and pay attention to the battery charge indication when you switch it on. Make sure it is sufficiently charged for you for launch day.
  • In my opinion, don’t use a swivel connector on the other end of the JCR lanyard - a simple “crows foot” knot will work for both ends. Swivels add complexity and can catch on the chute material or shroud lines too.
  • Match the size of the rubber band (or hair band) to the diameter of the folded chute to ensure it has enough tension to keep the chute bundle tight until the chosen release altitude.
  • Check the condition of your rubber band the night before launch day. Give it a few stretches to make sure it has not “gone off”. Better it snaps at that time so you can calmly replace it at home rather than in a rush in the field.
  • Like packing/folding your parachutes, it is often recommended to set-up the JLCR and parachute on launch day at the site. Doing it the day before, or even earlier, can sometimes result in the chute material sticking to itself and the JLCR band binding/gripping to the chute material.
  • Generally, its better to have the JLCR restraining band wrap directly around just the folded chute rather than around the outer Nomex blanket that may also being used to protect the chute bundle. This is mainly because most fliers want the Nomex blanket to be “whisked well away” from the chute attachment point so as to avoid risk of it entangling in the chute shroud lines. There is also a risk of the JLCR elastic band gripping/binding on the “rougher” texture of the Nomex cloth.
  • Ground test 1 – Check that the JLCR actually releases before you finally pack it into the rocket at the launch site and before you take the rocket to the RSO. Make sure you remember to switch it back on again after the ground test.
  • Ground test 2 – Do the shake test to simulate the chute bundle tumbling earthward after ejection. Ensure the JLCR holds the chute tight and that the chute shroud lines stay gripped inside your Z-folded chute bundle.
  • Ground test 3 – Do the puff test or something similar. Check that the combined diameter of the folded chute + JLCR + Nomex blanket bundle will smoothly eject out of the body tube by your motor deployment charge.
  • I would encourage you to have a suitably placed vent hole in your rocket body to allow equalisation of internal and external air pressure as the rocket rapidly climbs, avoiding nose cone separation, and enabling the JLCR to sense outside air pressure and hence detect launch.
  • After doing your ground tests, make sure the JLCR is secured to one of the folded chute shroud lines, not the main shock chord. Attach it to a shroud line high up next to where it attaches to the chute canopy material. That way, it some of the shroud lines get pulled out during the tumble earthward, then they won’t pull on the JLCR directly.
  • Avoid distractions in the field that may result in forgetting to attach it properly or forgetting to switch it back on after doing your ground tests. Consider a checklist as that may help.
  • Beware the sharp edges of the JLCR pin ring as it can prick the rubber band and snap/tear it, or it can catch on the chute material. Some fliers recommend filing the edges down or covering them with tape.
  • After wrapping the band around the chute bundle and inserting the pin, smooth out any wrinkles and pinched/puffy bits. Also make sure the band and pin ring are nicely aligned for the tension to pull the pin straight out. Don’t have the band tension pulling the pin to one side as this can cause the pin to stick in long enough for the servo actuator rod to re-engage the pin.
  • If using a Nomex protective pouch for the JLCR itself, like one of the Dinochutes pouches, take care not to accidentally press the buttons when closing the Velcro over it. Remember to check that you have switched it back on again after the ground test, and note that a pouch has the added risk that it will hide the indicator lights.
  • Be a little conservative on your chosen release altitude. The chute will need some altitude to unfurl and properly inflate and slow the falling rocket to the designed landing speed to avoid impact damage. Personally, I usually go for 500ft Above Ground Level and don’t go below 400ft AGL even on a windy day.
  • Finally, enjoy the excitement of JLCR deployments and shorter walks!
 
I want to see the answer to this as well.

I got my JLCR yesterday. The manual shows it tied to a shroud line.

I have some 500lb rated falconry sampo ball bearing swivels. My plan is kevlar harness from body tube to quicklink (stainless 300lb) attach JLCR to quick link, and 30" parachute to quick link.

Fold chute with shroud lines in a Z inside, right next to nose cone to insure it comes out with cone. Use nomex protector with a slide stop 5' below below nose cone and chute mount so it cant interfere with the chute, but can slide along the15' kevlar harness to absorb energy. My worry is tangling.

This is a very good question, and I am wondering the same as OP.

Steve
I use tubular nylon shock cords and attach a quick link about 18in. from nosecone and my JCLR gets attached to that quick link as well as my chute. Never had a problem with deployment. I attach my chute protector a few inches below that quick link and burrito wrap up chute and JCLR. I'd never attach to a shroud line, to me weakest point, in recovery system.
I don't use a JCLR in rockets as light and small as OP's, because whole recovery system is much "lighter" Putting a $140.00 item in a $50.00 rocket doesn't make sense to me. They are great for HPR rockets that are not DD. Ditch the rubber bands also.
 
Hi again all,
This site has been a great resource for me and I really appreciate all the help.
I'm building an easy one, the old classic Big Bertha, to try out a few things on a less expensive scale. Even though it won't go very high I'm using it to learn how to use a Jolly Logic altimeter 2 and their chute release.
I want to use a shock cord of ten feet 250lb kevlar tied to the motor mount.
My question is: all the videos that I have seen show the JLCR tied around the parachute. Can I add a nomex Chute protector attached near the air frame tube opening and attach the JLCR there? Problems?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
James
Ayr Scotland
Lots of good advice here, but it is imperative the lanyard not be attached in a location that could result in tension or it could be pulled off and in fact I had that happen. Anyone see the mistake? I knew better, just overlooked.
 

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Great advice ya'll.
BTW rocnut, the purpose of using the Big Bertha as a test bed is that it won't go too high and get it lost in the learning process (lost an altimeter that way when learning my recovery techniques) and I can do four times the number of flights compared to mid-power flights, more chance to improve my technique before I start G power work. Followed by my L1 test this coming summer. At least that's my plan.
 
JLCR advice, in no particular order…
  • Read the instructions that the JLCR came with. This will still not be enough.
  • Reconsider your chute folding technique from before you had a JLCR. It’s generally accepted that your chute folding technique for using a JLCR needs to be different that before. Again, read some of the TRF threads on this and consult other rocketry club members.
  • Check with other rocketry club members to tap into their knowledge about using JLCR devices.
  • Like packing/folding your parachutes, it is often recommended to set-up the JLCR and parachute on launch day at the site. Doing it the day before, or even earlier, can sometimes result in the chute material sticking to itself and the JLCR band binding/gripping to the chute material.
  • Generally, its better to have the JLCR restraining band wrap directly around just the folded chute rather than around the outer Nomex blanket that may also being used to protect the chute bundle. This is mainly because most fliers want the Nomex blanket to be “whisked well away” from the chute attachment point so as to avoid risk of it entangling in the chute shroud lines. There is also a risk of the JLCR elastic band gripping/binding on the “rougher” texture of the Nomex cloth.
  • Ground test 1 – Check that the JLCR actually releases before you finally pack it into the rocket at the launch site and before you take the rocket to the RSO. Make sure you remember to switch it back on again after the ground test.
  • Ground test 2 – Do the shake test to simulate the chute bundle tumbling earthward after ejection. Ensure the JLCR holds the chute tight and that the chute shroud lines stay gripped inside your Z-folded chute bundle.
  • Ground test 3 – Do the puff test or something similar. Check that the combined diameter of the folded chute + JLCR + Nomex blanket bundle will smoothly eject out of the body tube by your motor deployment charge.
  • I would encourage you to have a suitably placed vent hole in your rocket body to allow equalisation of internal and external air pressure as the rocket rapidly climbs, avoiding nose cone separation, and enabling the JLCR to sense outside air pressure and hence detect launch [Note: vents are good to avoid pressure separation, but Chute Release doesn't really sense launch; it's attention is on detecting falling when it's out in the open, so in a very strict sense vents are not a hard requirement at all, but they are for altimeters and I always use them.]
  • After doing your ground tests, make sure the JLCR is secured to one of the folded chute shroud lines, not the main shock chord. Attach it to a shroud line high up next to where it attaches to the chute canopy material. That way, it some of the shroud lines get pulled out during the tumble earthward, then they won’t pull on the JLCR directly.
  • Also make sure the band and pin ring are nicely aligned for the tension to pull the pin straight out. Don’t have the band tension pulling the pin to one side as this can cause the pin to stick in long enough for the servo actuator rod to re-engage the pin. [Not everyone realizes that Chute Release has a swivel built into the mechanism. It's pretty sticky when new and doesn't swing easily at first. It's a good idea to put a pencil into the hole and waggle it back and forth a bit to loosen it up. In fact, in units being assembled right now we have modified the dimensions of the swivel a tiny amount to make it much more swively from now on.
That's probably the most thorough set of directions I've seen someone post all in one place. Well done. My favorites I left above, and I added a couple of comments, expand them to read.

Always delighted to hear that someone read the User Guide, btw.

I would also add a couple more notes:

1. Never use a non-elastic band like a zip-tie. Yes, it can work, but it can also ruin your Chute Release. You need elasticity to limit the tension on the band to a level below that which will strip the tiny sharp corners off of your Chute Release mechanical mechanism.

2. The most common failure (after "forgot to turn it back on") is a bundle that "didn't open in the air, but rather opened after landing."

I don't believe that ever actually happens. Rather, as @BrendanH69 suggests here the bundle and the band were to blame.

Either the bundle was too fluffy and the band got caught up in loose folds or the folding technique wasn't adapted for Chute Release. For instance, never wrap your shround lines around the outside of the chute. Let Chute Release hold the bundle closed, not your shroud lines. You want the bundle to fall open (not to have to unroll) and your chute to snap open. Goal should be to only lose about 50 feet of altitude after release until inflation. Once inflation occurs, the rocket will quickly (in less than a second or two) slow to landing speed. I have typically used 200 or 300 feet as the release altitude, though new rockets I may add a little just due to uncertainty. But granted, my bundles are pretty optimized for Chute Release, and not at all like I used to do them. A release altitude higher than that would have no benefit to landing speed, the rocket would just drift further, and I mostly only raise the altitude in order to be able to see it on chute longer on days where the wind was really shifty and I worried I wouldn't know which direction to look to spot it.

Hope that all makes sense.
 
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I always set for 300’. That’s always plenty of altitude for the chute to open fully, slow the rocket down, and have several seconds of watching it float down. I’ve never understood why people release higher than that (other than first flights) whether it be chute release or dual deploy. I’ll see guys set for 500’, 600’, 700’… and I’m thinking, why?

Without a doubt the single biggest improvement for my success with a JLCR has been placing the chute and release package on a small cardboard sled and securing the sled in place on the shock cord so nothing can pull the chute free from the release prematurely. So far that seems to have eliminated my about 4 in 10 chance of the chute pulling free at ejection and opening at a high altitude, which was even more likely if the delay was off or for any other reason the ejection occurred at a higher than anticipated speed.
 
Starfire, interesting idea! So, cardboard,then chute, then cr? Size of cardboard close to the chute bundle size?
 
Starfire, interesting idea! So, cardboard,then chute, then cr? Size of cardboard close to the chute bundle size?
Yes, I rolled the chute for the chute release, wrapped the chute release around the cardboard and the chute, then roughly traced the outline (squared). I cut the cardboard cross grain so it would resist folding/rolling up on the sides as the cute release band pulls against it.

I cut slots on the back to thread the shock cord through, then taped it in place just under where the shroud lines are connected to the swivel - same spot the chute release is tethered to. That way the tension is on the cardboard which is fixed in place and not the shroud lines or the chute release.

This one was for a 60" parachute.

IMG_4452.jpgIMG_4453.jpg

I worked great on my flight with a J435W, judging by the condition after the first flight (which is great) I think I'll be able to get at least four or five flights out of it before I have to replace it.

This was inspired by someone on TRF (sorry, don't recall who) who had designed 3D printed boards for this purpose, I just found a way that took about 5 minutes, and $0.02 to make myself.
 
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